[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

The main thing is to get the movie well on disc, and the subtitles.

Looking over your posts, it sounds like you're talking about downloading ripped subtitles. Eug's not talking about the machine downloading ripped subtitles like those found online currently. He's talking about "official" subtitles that can be downloaded.

And you're also implying that making subtitles available for download after the disc is pressed is a sign of sloppiness or that the disc was rushed. That wouldn't be the case unless the disc didn't already have the subtitles that are normally there for that region.

For example, it would be seen as a problem if a disc bought in North America made you download the French or Spanish subtitles.

It gets more useful when you want subtitles OTHER than what has traditionally been made available. One issue that hits close to home for me is Greek subtitles. You will RARELY find Region 1 DVDs with Greek subtitles on them. That's because the vast majority of people in Region 1 don't care about Greek subtitles. But my father does. That's part of the reason ripping subtitles has become popular, despite the differences in releases in different parts of the world.

Why include 50 different subtitle tracks on a disc, when you can just leave the main ones for a given region and make the others available for download (as they become available)?

Would the average American be happy the studio was "taking their time to do the job right" if they knew the disc would be ready to release 2 months earlier if the studios didn't have to wait for the Swahili and Arabic translation houses?

Mac OS X doesn't include Turkish, Greek, or Arabic localizations in the box. But Apple's representatives in those countries have made those languages available for download. (OK, in Greece you can only get the Greek localization if you pay €50-200 more for a Mac with the Greek Mac OS X, and even then the only things translated are Finder, Control Panels, Address Book, and AppleWorks. Whoopee!) Does that make Mac OS X "rushed?"

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Why include 50 different subtitle tracks on a disc, when you can just leave the main ones for a given region and make the others available for download (as they become available)?

If the feature works as you seem to think it will, it would be nice. Since HD-DVD is region free, they could theoretically use the same disc for all regions and just have people download the applicable subtitles if they speak one of the less common languages. But I'm not convinced that the studios will make the effort to do this kind of thing.

Mac OS X doesn't include Turkish, Greek, or Arabic localizations in the box. But Apple's representatives in those countries have made those languages available for download. Does that make Mac OS X "rushed?"

Right, because operating systems and movie subtitles are completely the same...

[mitchell_pgh]

IMHO, this format war will not be won by features most consumers don't understand. Downloadable language tracks, more lax DRM, slightly better compression, required high quality standards, etc.

Most consumers that have, or are about to buy, a HD TV don't even know why they need HD-DVD or Blu-ray until it is explained to them. From there, they will probably pick the one a friend or sales person recommends.

Few consumers even watch the bonus tracks.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I like how they take a difference of a few thousand standalone players (as mentioned a few weeks back, standalone HD player sales for Europe as of March totaled 10,000 units for both formats combined) and make it sound like a huge victory. When 800,000 PS3s were sold in Europe up to the same point in time, it's just a tad difficult to discount its effect.

Actually that was the head of a neutral studio recognizing what many of us have said from the beginning - once games are finally released for the PS3 its effect on the "war" will be marginalized, and long term sales will come from standalone players.

And since the PS3 is no longer the cheapest Blu-Ray player, the studios may be wondering why other players aren't selling...

[icruise]

I was referring to the press release from the HD-DVD people that claimed "74% market share in Europe."

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Sorry: Toshiba NOT Offering $100 HD DVD Player, But Someone Is - Gizmodo

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Sorry: Toshiba NOT Offering $100 HD DVD Player, But Someone Is - Gizmodo

So, in other words, there's absolutely no change to the story? It's still a $100 HD-DVD player for attendees...

I dunno why anyone made a big deal out of this in the first place, even if Toshiba was giving the deal. Trade show sales happen *all* the time.

[icruise]

It's a total non-story, but bloggers latch on to anything these days.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So, in other words, there's absolutely no change to the story? It's still a $100 HD-DVD player for attendees...

I dunno why anyone made a big deal out of this in the first place, even if Toshiba was giving the deal. Trade show sales happen *all* the time.

Because HD-DVD fans got their panties in a bunch thinking it was a sign of things to come for everyone.

that last link added to the story that it isn't even being run by Toshiba.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Here is more back and forthing:
Blu-ray: Actually, we are the top in European sales - Engadget HD

[Kerrigan]

According to that article:

Including [PS3s and computers] puts Blu-ray in the lead instead, with almost 95% of hardware sales.

That's a huuuge difference from what that HDDVD group was saying.

[icruise]

I know, it's almost beyond belief. I totally agree with the people who say that computer drives or PS3s aren't the equivalent of standalones because not all people who buy them will also buy movies, but come on!

[jokell82]

Blu-Ray is in the lead solely due to the PS3, and the 95% is misleading (just like the HD-DVD's 74% is currently misleading). In reality the 95% with the PS3 only translates to a 60-40 margin in disc sales, so the value of the PS3 isn't nearly what the Blu-Ray group was hoping for. It's keeping them in the game (and hell, it's keeping them ahead of the game), but it's not something that can sustain them long-term.

Standalone players are what drives the market. People buy those for the sole purpose of watching movies. The company that leads the pack in standalone drives over the next year or two will be the company that does the best in this "war." Right now, that's HD-DVD. Will it continue to be? Only time will tell. But if standalone sales stay as lopsided as they are as sales move beyond the hardcore market, expect BD exclusive studios to start releasing HD-DVDs.

[goMac]

This is why I didn't post the 74% article when I saw it. Another thing to keep in mind is the HD disc market is incredibly small in Europe. Considering this, I don't know if the PS3 only putting Sony at 95% is a very good thing.

[icruise]

Give me a break. Only you could suggest that selling "only" 95% of HD hardware isn't good enough.

[Dakarʒ]

You know you're biased when...

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Considering this, I don't know if the PS3 only putting Sony at 95% is a very good thing.

Only you can see 95% share as a bad thing

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Give me a break. Only you could suggest that selling "only" 95% of HD hardware isn't good enough.

Like I posted above, it isn't as it's misleading. They don't have 95% of HD disc sales, nor do they have 95% of current gen video game sales. They have a very large portion of drives that are seriously under-utilized. If they could convert those numbers into BD sales then they'd be sitting pretty. But they're not.