[analogue SPRINKLES]

Mini Blu-ray discs show off wider adoption of HD format - PS3 Fanboy

sexy:

[starman]

[analogue SPRINKLES]

OK the last one sucked but the first 2 were amazing and this will sell like hotcakes.

'Spider-Man' Trilogy to Spin Its Web on Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

[Eug]

Yeah I agree with that assessment. Spider-Man 3 sucked, but the trilogy will sell very well on Blu-ray.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by icruise 

aristotle, if you seriously have goMac and Eug on your ignore list, then I think trying to participate in this discussion is going to be pointless for you.

I disagree and feel that I can discuss issues with other members who are willing to concede points made by others.

Even when I conceded that the HD-DVD standard supported HD DVD structure on DVD as a testing mechanism for short films for the nth time, it seemed as if they were disagreeing. Nowhere in the thread had I contested that point yet they continued to bring up that point once again as if I was not aware of it.


Both formats have advantages and disadvantages. For me, the advantages of BD outweigh the disadvantages of the format. I must concede that I envy HD DVD for their Universal Studios content but not enough to buy another player.

It would be nice if the HD DVD camp would acknowledge that Apple is a member and board member of the Blu-ray group and has not offered any official and definitive sign of supporting HD DVD on the consumer level despite their commitment to continue support HD DVD in some capacity in FCP Studio/DVD Studio Pro.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Even when I conceded that the HD-DVD standard supported HD DVD structure on DVD as a testing mechanism for short films for the nth time, it seemed as if they were disagreeing.

The amusing part is aristotles' concession is a concession to something that wasn't said. It's just aristotles' repackaging of what was said in an attempt to try to gloss over Apple's real-life support of the format.

It would be nice if the HD DVD camp would acknowledge that Apple is a member and board member of the Blu-ray group and has not offered any official and definitive sign of supporting HD DVD on the consumer level despite their commitment to continue support HD DVD in some capacity in FCP Studio/DVD Studio Pro.

Internet gymnastics at its best!

Well, not quite its best, considering that Apple has already officially stated in press releases that they support both hi-def formats, and DVD Player.app (found on all consumer Macs) already supports playback of some HD DVDs, but currently no Blu-ray discs at all.

From the horse's mouth:

Final Cut Studio, Apple’s ultimate HD video production suite, centers around Final Cut Pro® 5, a major upgrade to the Emmy award-winning editing software for DV, SD, HD and film. Final Cut Studio features state-of-the-art tools that complement Final Cut Pro 5, including Soundtrack® Pro, a revolutionary new audio editing and sound design application that makes video projects sound as good as they look; Motion 2, the world’s first real-time motion graphics application with GPU accelerated 32-bit float rendering; and DVD Studio Pro 4, the first commercially available DVD authoring software that burns high definition DVDs to the latest HD DVD specification.

Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards—Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

It doesn't get much clearer than that. Yet, this has gone ignored or called irrelevant whenever it was stated, and it has been stated several times by several different people already in this thread.

[icruise]

Yes, that press release from April 2005 is interesting and all (nothing at all has changed since then...), but you and I both know that when people talk about Apple supporting one format or the other, what they are mostly referring to is which one they will be including with their hardware. And the fact of the matter is that we have no indication whatsoever how that is going to turn out. Now can we let this drop or are you going to continue arguing with someone who has you on their ignore list?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Yes, that press release from April 2005 is interesting and all (nothing at all has changed since then...), but you and I both know that when people talk about Apple supporting one format or the other, what they are mostly referring to is which one they will be including with their hardware. And the fact of the matter is that we have no indication whatsoever how that is going to turn out. Now can we let this drop or are you going to continue arguing with someone who has you on their ignore list?

Nah, I'll continue arguing with you instead.

The point is Apple's real life support of hi-def today is more in favour of HD DVD than it is of Blu-ray. That is simple fact.

Things may change in the future, but Apple hasn't demonstrated any real-life preference for Blu-ray up until now, despite the wishes of certain members in this thread. Sure, people may engage in speculation for the future, but I just find it odd how far some people go to try to ignore this simple piece of truth. Until Apple confirms it's removing all reference to HD DVD in its software and goes exclusively Blu-ray, I will continue to take Apple's own statements at face value, that they plan on supporting both formats. IMO, that's about the most reasonable conclusion anyone can make at this time, based on the available information.

P.S. I'm not really concerned about the hardware personally. I'm concerned about the software support. It's pretty easy to go out and buy a drive and plug it in. In fact, my HD DVD drive is recognized just fine in OS X. I'm more concerned about software because you can't always just go out and buy an add-on to Apple software to add format support for authoring and playback. If it were easy, then we'd already have Blu-ray authoring in DVD Studio Pro and Blu-ray playback support in DVD player.app. But we don't. At this time we have exclusive HD DVD support.

[goMac]

Toshiba is getting ready to launch their 3rd gen HD-DVD players:
Third generation HD DVD players on October 1st? - Engadget

Nice to see the high end price dropped to $499, but there still should be 1080p across the board.

With regard to Apple being neutral, one side is arguing using solid facts and press releases, the other side is arguing using wild speculation. One argument is more solid than the other. I've brought some evidences claims to the table, but that doesn't change that the evidence that Apple is neutral far outweighs the speculation that the Bluray camp has made.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. I'm not really concerned about the hardware personally. I'm concerned about the software support. It's pretty easy to go out and buy a drive and plug it in. In fact, my HD DVD drive is recognized just fine in OS X. I'm more concerned about software because you can't always just go out and buy an add-on to Apple software to add format support for authoring and playback. If it were easy, then we'd already have Blu-ray authoring in DVD Studio Pro and Blu-ray playback support in DVD player.app. But we don't. At this time we have exclusive HD DVD support.

(Sorry, I should have really multi quoted this.)

I don't think software would be an issue. If Apple didn't ship an HD-DVD player, somebody else would. That said, again, Apple does not ship software for somebody else's hardware, except in rare exceptions (the best I can think of is for video cameras or digital cameras). So again, if HD-DVD does make it's way into DVD Player.app, chances are good Apple will be shipping HD-DVD compatible hardware.

And I just don't see Apple putting themselves in a position where they will ship a combo drive on the Mac Pros and Bluray only on the consumer level. Apple is going to want Mac users to exchange their content with any other Mac user.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah I agree with that assessment. Spider-Man 3 sucked, but the trilogy will sell very well on Blu-ray.

Ya but even though the 3rd was horrid it made $887,027,292 worldwide and $336,027,292 in just the US!

It is definitely going to move like mad on BR.

[jokell82]

I dunno, with an SRP of $50 for *JUST* the third movie, that's asking a lot. Even if I was a fan of the movie (never saw it after friends did and warned me), I'd be hard pressed to spend that much.

As a rule I don't spend more than $20 on a single film. For stuff like 300 with selling prices above that level, Movie Stop's trade in deal comes in quite handy.

[icruise]

$50 MSRP? Is that correct? The Pirates movies only had an MSRP of $34.99.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

$50 MSRP? Is that correct? The Pirates movies only had an MSRP of $34.99.

Spider-Man 3 (US - DVD R1 | BD R1) in News > Releases at DVDActive

According to that article it's $49.95 for just Spider-Man 3 BD, and $98.95 for the set.

[icruise]

High-Def Digest lists the price as $38.95 and the foreign stores I've found offering it for preorder list it as the same price as the Pirates movies (in the local currency). It's possible that those were just guesses, though.

[jokell82]

And that article I linked to could just be wrong, too. A (Blu-Ray leaning) friend sent it to me, didn't really look into it much.

[jokell82]

Btw, last week's Nielsen numbers since you guys seem to like those:

NXTbook flash detection page







So a catalog HD-DVD title was the best selling high definition disc last week, according to Nielsen.

[icruise]

66 to 34. Well, it's an improvement over last week, anyway, although only 1% different from the year-to-date numbers.

The sales of the Bourne Identity are of course spurred by the new Bourne moving coming out.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So a catalog HD-DVD title was the best selling high definition disc last week, according to Nielsen.

It's also the ONLY catalog disc on the list. The other spots are all Blu-ray and one dual format release.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

It's also the ONLY catalog disc on the list. The other spots are all Blu-ray and one dual format release.

Eh? Only two of the top 10 high def sellers were HD-DVD, but the best selling disc was HD-DVD. The point is that it's a catalog title, not a new release. So what's the issue here?

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Eh? Only two of the top 10 high def sellers were HD-DVD, but the best selling disc was HD-DVD. The point is that it's a catalog title, not a new release. So what's the issue here?

Enjoy this while it lasts. When Close Encounters clobbers everything on HD-DVD that week, and it's a 30 year old film, we'll be seeing which "catalog title" wins.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I dunno, with an SRP of $50 for *JUST* the third movie, that's asking a lot. Even if I was a fan of the movie (never saw it after friends did and warned me), I'd be hard pressed to spend that much.

As a rule I don't spend more than $20 on a single film. For stuff like 300 with selling prices above that level, Movie Stop's trade in deal comes in quite handy.

Oh please you really think they are going to have any single movie sitting on any shelf for $50 US? I bet it will be about $30 tops.

And as for 300 I was sure tickled it was cheaper than HD.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And as for 300 I was sure tickled it was cheaper than HD.

Would've had trouble affording that extra $3?

[Eug]

Hot Fuzz - image quality

DVD

HD DVD <-- Loads fine in Firefox, but for some reason Safari loads it as a text file.

[Brien]

Wow, the compression on there is horrible (the DVD version).

[jokell82]

Your HD-DVD link didn't work for me, so I re-hosted it in case it wasn't working for others:
http://www.thejokell.com/web/Hotfuzzhddvd6.png

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Brien 

Wow, the compression on there is horrible (the DVD version).

Remember, that's a 480p image blown up to 1920x1080. That's the problem with 480p of course.

I've taken the image and reduced it back down to 480p to give you an idea of what it looks like. (I don't have the disc yet so I can't do a direct screengrab.) At native rez, it doesn't look that bad.

DVD 480p

However, the 1080p HD DVD downsampled to 480p still looks noticeably better.

HD DVD 480p

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Remember, that's a 480p image blown up to 1920x1080. That's the problem with 480p of course.

That's what you'd see on a 1080p set. What's your point?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

That's what you'd see on a 1080p set. What's your point?

Unless you have an up-converter....

[Eug]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

That's what you'd see on a 1080p set. What's your point?

My point is some upconversion is better than others.

My other point is that this negates the arguments by some that even on a medium sized TV, HD DVD doesn't look that much better than DVD. IMO, HD DVD blows DVD away, even on my 34 incher. The difference is even more pronounced on large 1080p TVs.

[Eug]

Lame

"Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008."

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Lame

"Samsung would not have a Blu-ray player with the updated specs until 2008."

But don't you remember? Bluray is future proof! If you buy now, you'll have a player that can play all the latest and greatest Bluray discs all the way till 2008!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

But don't you remember? Bluray is future proof! If you buy now, you'll have a player that can play all the latest and greatest Bluray discs all the way till 2008!

Weird I remember DVD's having the same problem.

Even funnier despite all these problems you keep mentioning BR has they are still winning and HD losing for 8 months straight. Wonder why.

[exca1ibur]

Current Blu-ray players won't be able to play an on-demand picture-in-picture commentary, for example, that may come on a disc a year from now. Nor will they be able to connect to the Internet for future interactive functions that may be incorporated into the disc. But when that happens, Hollywood studio technologists have explained to me, they will likely program the disc in such a way that--if your player can't support the new feature--the option won't even show as available during playback.

The one possible exception to this among the currently shipping players: Sony's PlayStation 3, which ranked fourth in our recent high-definition player roundup. For one thing, the PS3 meets the technical requirements for BD Live Internet connectivity. According to Sony, the company is investigating and evaluating the implementation of BD Live, but it has not yet made any announcements of adopting and supporting BD Live.

I agree that does suck for the early adopters there, but on the same note thats the risk you take. The good thing is having 85% of your players being the Playstation 3, things are not as bad as they it could could be. You have the best odds by far there. At least this only affects some of the special feature stuff only, so at least you don't have an $800 brick.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Weird I remember DVD's having the same problem.

I don't remember DVD's having the same problem.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Even funnier despite all these problems you keep mentioning BR has they are still winning and HD losing for 8 months straight. Wonder why.

Not in the standalone player department...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Weird I remember DVD's having the same problem.

That's interesting, cuz DVD didn't have this problem.

[icruise]

So you're saying that I imagined all of the problems my early DVD player had playing advanced (for the time) features like seamless branching and interactive popups?

[starman]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you're saying that I imagined all of the problems my early DVD player had playing advanced (for the time) features like seamless branching and interactive popups?

You didn't imagine it. I can pop in a movie like T2 and my old Pioneer D704 will choke on it (or glitch, or something).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you're saying that I imagined all of the problems my early DVD player had playing advanced (for the time) features like seamless branching and interactive popups?

Those were bugs in some players and discs.

However, even if 1st generation BD players were 100% bug free, they still wouldn't play the full set of BD features that are MANDATORY in 2007.

Originally Posted by starman 

You didn't imagine it. I can pop in a movie like T2 and my old Pioneer D704 will choke on it (or glitch, or something).

OTOH, my bottom-of-the-line 1st generation RCA DVD player plays T2 just fine, because it (and its Panasonic brother) didn't suffer from this bug.

[starman]

Will these features prevent me from playing the movie? Will the player explode? From what I understand these new "features" are only related to EXTRAS, not playback of the film itself.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by starman 

Will these features prevent me from playing the movie? Will the player explode? From what I understand these new "features" are only related to EXTRAS, not playback of the film itself.

Yup, and it's still lame.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

I agree that does suck for the early adopters there, but on the same note thats the risk you take. The good thing is having 85% of your players being the Playstation 3, things are not as bad as they it could could be. You have the best odds by far there. At least this only affects some of the special feature stuff only, so at least you don't have an $800 brick.

Interestingly, BD Profile 1.1 still doesn't add network connectivity. That's coming with BD Profile 2.0. There are no announced players that are confirmed to support BD 2.0. The PS3 probably will, but there's no confirmation of that yet.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yup, and it's still lame.

I predict this "extras" thing is just a fad anyway. No one will really ever watch them.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Interestingly, BD Profile 1.1 still doesn't add network connectivity. That's coming with BD Profile 2.0.

Sounds like Bluray 1.1 will be future proof well into late 2008 to early 2009.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I predict this "extras" thing is just a fad anyway. No one will really ever watch them.

Heh. I remember back in the DVD days when people said that. In fact, that was one of the arguments in favour of DIVX.

[Kerrigan]

The last time I used a DVD extra feature was sometime before 1999. Not all of us are tinkering nerds

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

The last time I used a DVD extra feature was sometime before 1999. Not all of us are tinkering nerds

I'll usually go through the extras is I enjoyed the movie. My girlfriend rewatches the movie with the commentary track.

(Note: It would be great if iTunes let me listen to the Battlestar Galactica commentary while I watched. Yes I know I could just use QT Player...)

[Brien]

Rumor is Weinstein Company is going neutral soon.

[Montezuma58]

3rd Generation HD-DVD players around the corner.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's interesting, cuz DVD didn't have this problem.

Nope but DVD players did.

DVD FAQ