[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So when it benefits the Blu-Ray camp, the PS3 install base means they have a TON of player sales. But if you bring up attach rates, suddenly they don't count? I don't buy it.

The install base for Blu-ray IS larger, but your attempt to compare a device like the PS3 with a stand alone HD-DVD player is foolish at best. The potential that those PS3 users will buy HD movies is there... but playing movies isn't the only thing the device can do... in fact, it's not even the primary purpose of the device!

You are trying to compare apples and oranges and your "attachment" comment is laughable at best. Why on earth would the movie industry care about attachment rates? Because "in the future" they may sell more movies? IMHO, if I were a movie studio and had to pick one format or another, only a fool would pick HD-DVD. Why? Because they sell more disks.

Finally, if you "don't buy it" you are doing the same thing. When HD-DVDs numbers are low, you say the attachment rate is higher... but when it's convenient, you say you sell more stand alone players (which isn't true any longer).

The fact is, Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Considering Vizio is now the top selling LCD HDTV, I'm not sure you can say the average cost is $1000+. And how do you figure Blu-Ray has more movies that "most people want"? The number of releases is pretty close to even (and I think HD DVD is getting ready to outnumber BD).[/b]

You may have me on the cheap "HD" players (720p stuff that I'm sure sells like hotcakes to those that aren't in the know).

I based my movies that most people want on what sells (AKA,Top-Grossing Distributors from 1995 to 2007 The Numbers - Top-Grossing Distributors 1995 to 2007 ).

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I've said from the beginning that I think this will end with both formats coexisting, and nothing recently has changed my view. I'd still rather have HD DVD the clear winner, but I doubt Sony's ever going to stop making BD movies. So given that scenario I'd definitely agree with you - hybrid players will become the standard.

Why would Sony stop? IMHO, they are still winning the overall war. It basically took Microsoft to even make this a real battle... which really only breathed life back into HD-DVD IMHO. I would have loved to have seen HD-DVD win out over Blu-ray, I just don't see it happening.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I for one would be very surprised if Paramount/Dreamworks swtich didn't involve some concessions (monetary or otherwise), but I also think it would be pretty naive to think that the same type of thing doesn't happen on both sides.

Yup.

It basically took Microsoft to even make this a real battle...

If you're talking about the Paramount deal, I will reiterate that the VP of MS has already gone on record to say that MS did not pay Paramount anything.

It could be someone else, but it wasn't MS.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

It's a convergence device because it requires a computer to work with it. If you could stream DVD or HD to it you would. If games were downloadable to it kids would. YouTube is a form of web browsing. Users and potential buyers have requested a TV tuner to be built into it. You think that's all crap that consumers don't need simply for the sake of argument.

You really think someone would play games on an AppleTV? Apple knows that a) consumers who just want to play media don't want to pay extra for games they don't want to play b) not everyone has kids and c) they ship a remote completely unsuitable for playing games.

You can't play DVD's on an AppleTV. You can make excuses but obviously Apple didn't think it was something consumers wanted, or else they would make it a feature. YouTube is not a web browser, that's a pretty poor excuse. And the TV tuner crowd (me included) seems to have died down. Honestly, I don't know what I'd record. I'd just like the AppleTV to download my season passes directly honestly.

The AppleTV represents the Apple way. Do one thing and do it well. The iPod excels at just playing music. The iMac excels at just being a computer. And the iPhone seems to be Apple's first grand experiment into the realm of a real all in one device. And you notice, they haven't exactly scrambled to replace their iPod line with an all iPhone line.

[Eug]

Hmmm... Shakeup at Warner?

Steve Nickerson, Warner Home Video's ubiquitous next-generation disc guru, is leaving the company to pursue other opportunities that will be announced shortly.

...with the launch of Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, he became Warner's point man for the new formats as senior vp high-definition media. He was a regular speaker at industry trade shows and conferences and talked up the studio's dual-format approach as giving the consumer the ultimate choice and the studio a chance to maximize high-def disc revenue.

This is apparently the guy who oversaw those stillborn TotalHD discs.

At least one major insider claims his leaving has nothing to do with Blu-ray vs. HD DVD though.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Hmmm... Shakeup at Warner?

Steve Nickerson, Warner Home Video's ubiquitous next-generation disc guru, is leaving the company to pursue other opportunities that will be announced shortly.

...with the launch of Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, he became Warner's point man for the new formats as senior vp high-definition media. He was a regular speaker at industry trade shows and conferences and talked up the studio's dual-format approach as giving the consumer the ultimate choice and the studio a chance to maximize high-def disc revenue.

This is apparently the guy who oversaw those stillborn TotalHD discs.

At least one major insider claims his leaving has nothing to do with Blu-ray vs. HD DVD though.

Steve came to Warner from Toshiba. Amir is a VP at MSFT. He is known for spreading FUD and denying things that are later shown to be true.

Several members at AVS have reported having their orders for WB titles on HD DVD being cancelled and others reporting that shipping dates for other titles are appearing as unknown.

TotalHD is dead and expect an announcement on Monday.
*Hint*
You better stock up on your local supplies of HD DVD from WB while supplies last.

Payback is a biatch isn't it?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Several members at AVS have reported having their orders for WB titles on HD DVD being cancelled and others reporting that shipping dates for other titles are appearing as unknown.

There are also rumors on the AVSForums that he left because he is unhappy that Warner is going to go HD-DVD exclusive.

I don't really belief in rumors either way, but I think it would be simply hilarious is Paramount was only the first part of the HD-DVD exclusivity payoffs. I think Aristotles would simply implode.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Steve came to Warner from Toshiba. Amir is a VP at MSFT. He is known for spreading FUD and denying things that are later shown to be true.

He definitely ain't perfect, but as far as I'm concerned he's the most valuable poster at AVS hands down, and one of the very few insiders that actually has the guts to tell people who he really is.

Several members at AVS have reported having their orders for WB titles on HD DVD being cancelled and others reporting that shipping dates for other titles are appearing as unknown.

This applies to both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs at Warner's site:

Due to a system upgrade implementation, we are unable to ship orders placed between August 8th – September 4th until after September 5th.

The interesting part is that CEDIA starts on Sept. 5. Hmmm...

TotalHD is dead and expect an announcement on Monday.
*Hint*
You better stock up on your local supplies of HD DVD from WB while supplies last.

Payback is a biatch isn't it?

I'd expect WB to stay neutral for the time being, but if they were to go exclusive, I'm not entirely sure which direction they'd go. However, I would have guessed they lean HD DVD, considering they're already HD DVD exclusive on several titles (Matrix, Batman Begins, etc.)

With this format war though, on never knows...

[aristotles]

I can understand that a VP at MSFT would cheer for his own team but he has deliberately misled the buying public on several occasions. He insisted that Disney was going to go neutral last year and insisted that BD 50 would never see the light of day.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

I can understand that a VP at MSFT would cheer for his own team but he has deliberately misled the buying public on several occasions. He insisted that Disney was going to go neutral last year

Link please. I don't recall him saying that, but I don't read every single post he makes.

and insisted that BD 50 would never see the light of day.

As far as I remember, he dissed BD50 severely but didn't specifically say it would never see the light of day. He just said it was had major teething problems and it would take a heluvalot for it to get to true low cost high commercial volume production levels.

And as far I can tell, that is true. Even now, many 3rd party replicators won't do BD50.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Link please. I don't recall him saying that, but I don't read every single post he makes.


As far as I remember, he dissed BD50 severely but didn't specifically say it would never see the light of day. He just said it was had major teething problems and it would take a heluvalot for it to get to true low cost high commercial volume production levels.

And as far I can tell, that is true. Even now, many 3rd party replicators won't do BD50.

I don't have the time to search AVS right now. Look in blu-ray.com for a post near the end of the Blu-ray loyalty thread.

As for BD. I own quite a few 50GB BDs. Sorry, but that was complete FUD from Amir.

[aristotles]

Do you guys remember this story from 120 days ago about cheap HD Media players being ordered by Wal-mart? Do you remember how some dismissed mention of a Blue DVD player as being either Blu-ray or HD DVD? I think some of you forgot that they mentioned it would read 50GB discs.

That is the capacity of a dual player BD while HD DVD only goes up to 30GB in practice and recently 51GB in the lab. If I recall correctly, there has been no confirmation of playback of 51 GB discs on existing players or their viability for mass production while 50GB Blu-ray discs are a reality. then there is the incongreity between 51 and 50 and that the feat in the lab had not been reached yet at the time.

Here is a link to the old story:
N4G.com : Chinese Development recieved order for Blu-ray Players

Now there is something that makes this old rumour more interesting. An apparent blu-ray insider has hinted that a Chinese 199.00 is coming to Wal-mart. It appeared as a message in Chinese mentioning saving money, Watching National Lampoons Vacation with some of his friends where the Griswall's go to Wally world and how it would have cost more than 199.00 to take his 20 friends to see it at the theatre.

For those of you who don't know, Wally World is a slang term used within Wal-mart corporate culture to refer to themselves.

This hint was posted after the Paramount announcement and it is possible that the Paramount move may have been damage control for this and other upcoming announcements.

PS. Roses are red, violets are blue and so is Weinstein.
PPS. Think "Grindhouse"

[icruise]

I'm really not following you anymore, Aristotles.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'd expect WB to stay neutral for the time being, but if they were to go exclusive, I'm not entirely sure which direction they'd go. However, I would have guessed they lean HD DVD, considering they're already HD DVD exclusive on several titles (Matrix, Batman Begins, etc.)

You know, at this stage, getting Warner to go exclusive would be one of the smartest things for the HD-DVD camp to do.

Disney is the big fish that HD-DVD needs to get to go neutral. Once that is done, the war is basically over in favor of HD-DVD. But the HD-DVD camp can't afford to buy off Disney outright. But, if the HD-DVD camp bought out Warner, the pressure on Disney to go neutral would be enormous. Sure, you'd still have a hold out in Twentieth Century Fox, and we all know Sony would be the last studio to fall, but if Warner also went HD-DVD exclusive, we'd likely see a cascade of neutrality move through the Bluray camp.

Again, I'm not betting on Warner changing their plans in the near future, but if the HD-DVD does get Warner to go neutral, it would be an extremely smart move. Getting Paramount to go exclusive has put them in a lot better of a position.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I'm really not following you anymore, Aristotles.

This one says blu-ray and mentions 50GB capacity disc playback (Blu-ray Double layer)
N4G.com : Chinese Development recieved order for Blu-ray Players
HD DVD in this one:
The Wal-Mart $299 HD DVD player on the way - Engadget

They are referring to the same rumour but the earlier points toward blu-ray visa-vie the 50 GB capacity.

Cheap Chinese BD player == HD DVD Armageddon.

Clear?

Weinstein distributes Grindhouse and it has been confirmed for Blu-ray.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You really think someone would play games on an AppleTV? Apple knows that a) consumers who just want to play media don't want to pay extra for games they don't want to play b) not everyone has kids and c) they ship a remote completely unsuitable for playing games.

Oh God you are so arrogant to suppose you know so much about everything, even what Apple "knows", and then you come up with such incredibly daft responses. Just another very vain and insecure internet surfer.

Read what everyone has known for months:

Games on Apple TV Confirmed? - Strings in the iTunes code refer to Apple TV games - Softpedia
AppleInsider | Briefly: Apple seeks game artists; Apple TV prep begins at retail
Apple TV might have games, eventually
Analyst sees Apple offering subscriptions for games, videos

And the modding community has already been gaming on Apple TV for months too.

You can't play DVD's on an AppleTV.

You don't say. Read that post again.

YouTube is not a web browser, that's a pretty poor excuse.

It is a browser. It browses content over the web.

And the TV tuner crowd (me included) seems to have died down. Honestly, I don't know what I'd record.

When someone says they don't know what they'd record with a TV tuner I know they aren't giving an appropriate answer.

It's a convergence device. That is what I said it was and that is what it is. Move on to Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Now we get your bizarre knowledge of Hollywood and how Toshiba (because that's where the pay offs and investment is mostly coming from) should win Disney over.

Disney is the big fish that HD-DVD needs to get to go neutral. Once that is done, the war is basically over in favor of HD-DVD.