[starman]

BB now lists Thunderbird as having the player. I took a screenshot. If you really, REALLY need me to post it, I will.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

OK, let me repeat once again the question that I've been asking the HD-DVD side: if price was the most important factor, why hasn't HD-DVD already won? The price gap between the two formats is only going to get smaller from now on.

I thought I answered this earlier, but maybe I didn't.

Price is one of many important factors. Even if it were the most important factor (which arguably it may or may not be), there are various other factors that are important:

Price (HD DVD is decidedly cheaper for the hardware, although some of the software costs a bit more - combo discs.)
Quality (Both have excellent video and audio quality, except that BR put out some truly awful titles, like The Fifth Element.)
Studio support (Historically Blu-ray's advantage, at least on paper.)
Features (HD DVD has the advantage IMO, because of the mandatory specifications. Even low end players get the pertinent features)
Trojan horse penetration (There is essentially none on the HD DVD side. There is a significant amount with the PS3.)

Now, it is my impression that Blu-ray's main mode of attack was studio support and trojan horse penetration. However, that failed to win the war immediately because HD DVD had the price (and feature) advantage, and because the studio support on paper didn't translate into actual available titles. Fox was essentially a no-show, and Disney wasn't releasing much either. Furthermore, the Trojan horse PS3 launched late and at too high a cost. Blu-ray's one-two punch thus failed to connect hard enough to get the knockout.

Meanwhile, HD DVD has continued on its price lowering and in the meantime has been able to win more studio support, at the expense of Blu-ray. With the Trojan horse PS3 becoming less important in the war, HD DVD is pouring it on where it competes.

However, this is not a one battle thing, despite what Sony might might have hyped with the PS3. This is going to be an ongoing thing until at least 2009.

Remember, I've always said that Blu-ray going in had the advantage, and it was their fight to lose. Well, they haven't lost yet (despite what Enderle says), but it seems like they've gone out of their way to make it hard on themselves on most fronts.

Now, as for price, I will reiterate that I think it's very important. So much so that the BDA finally understands this.... They wouldn't have bothered with lowering the price of the PS3 or getting Funai on board otherwise.

[Chongo]

Not every one has a 1080p set. And should we be suing all the manufacturers who are still designing and making NEW 720p sets? Samsung and othere are selling new sets that are 720p. My 46" Sammy is 720p. Since when is 720P not "FULL HD"? It's a marketing ploy and there are too many articles on the web to list that say unless you have a huge room to put that >60" set in you can't tell the difference anyway.
Is there really a 1080p advantage? - Joystiq

Everyone is hearing a lot about 1080p resolution these days. Sony is promoting the resolution as a primary feature in the PlayStation 3 and Microsoft recently added the functionality to the Xbox 360. All of these big resolution numbers are nice and all, but is 1080p really all that it's cracked up to be?

According to the Imaging Science Foundation -- a professional organization that trains TV calibration techniques to technicians -- the three most important factors of a television's image quality are contrast ratio, color saturation, and color accuracy. Resolution ranks fourth and we're surprised that other important factors such as response time didn't rank above resolution. Tests done at CNET confirm the relative non-importance of 1080p over 720p; they state they find only minor differences in the two HD resolutions -- and only in very specific scenarios.

If professionals who spend much of their time reviewing HDTV sets have difficulties telling the difference between 720p and 1080p, will the general public have any reason to spend the extra dough on a 1080p set? Even if a person could notice the difference, would they care if they can see individual nose hairs when they are when being shot at in Resistance: Fall of Man or Gears of War? With the near zero difference the additional pixels make, Microsoft and Sony are sure spending a lot of money -- and driving up development costs -- for a feature few will truly appreciate.

[icruise]

Eug -- That sounds like a pretty good overview, and supports your view (as I remember it) that this will be a prolonged fight. My comment was addressed more to the people who say "as soon as HD-DVD gets a sub-$200 player, it'll all be over!" I won't deny that cost is an important factor, but it's not as if most people are sitting around waiting for one format or the other to hit a magic price point. By the far the biggest problems faced by both formats are a general disinterest in HD movies on the part of the general public, and widespread uncertainty about which format is going to win. These issues aren't just going to go away.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Yawn.

Any GOOD developer would never IN A MILLION YEARS write that code more than once. It's called libraries.

So you're in favor of increasing the code base size and having longer debugging times?

[Super Mario]

The 360 and MS has always been open to Blu-ray

Moore: Blu-ray Xbox 360 add-on possible - Xbox 360 News at GameSpot

Also, Japan's chief of Xbox operations, Yoshihiro Maruyama said no 360 games will ever ship on HD-DVD or Blu-ray because the system doesn't support game loading from an external drive. X Box 360 games are stuck with less than 10GBs of space to use.

If Blu-ray keeps winning by so much and games keep getting larger, MS will have to ship X Box 360's with built in Blu-ray (and screw over all those old 360s with DVD).

[*TL]

Originally Posted by Eng

Let me ask you an honest question.

If someone was hot to buy today, I would have no hesitation recommending a 1.0 BD player. After Nov. 1, I would recommend paying the extra $50 for 1.1 capabilities. If the lay of the land is still the same as it is today after Nov. 1, I would recommend someone who was price sensitive stretch to pay the extra $100 to buy the 1.0 BD player over the HD player.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

If Blu-ray keeps winning by so much and games keep getting larger, MS will have to ship X Box 360's with built in Blu-ray (and screw over all those old 360s with DVD).

Depending on who you believe, GTA IV is postponed because of the need to squeeze it all on to one DVD since the 360 version doesn't have the PS3's ability to use next-gen discs. (Or you can go with the pro-360 side who says the delay is b/c the PS3 is harder to program.)

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Apple has already officially stated they are format neutral.

Another lie. Apple is only format neutral for pro applications which have to, for damn obvious reasons, support output to every format possible (from VHS all the way up to 8K digital cinema and film transfer).

The only next gen disc format ever to be mentioned by Steve Jobs has been Blu-ray, still to expensive to put in most Macs. Apple has a problem here because of semantics and marketing. It labels a DVD rewriter a "Superdrive". It can only really replace all Superdrives at once and not just at the high end otherwise they'll have to change the name of Superdrives in the low end models, because they won't exactly look very super anymore.

Anyway, Eug, when is your lying going to stop? Please don't by an means. It's amusing watching you and goMac pat each other on the back for 56 pages and have nothing to show for it.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by *TL 

Depending on who you believe, GTA IV is postponed because of the need to squeeze it all on to one DVD since the 360 version doesn't have the PS3's ability to use next-gen discs. (Or you can go with the pro-360 side who says the delay is b/c the PS3 is harder to program.)

Yes and according to those lying fanboys goMac and Eug, GTAIV will be better on a DVD after all that compression and being forced to download levels from the net whenever you complete a section.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by *TL 

Depending on who you believe, GTA IV is postponed because of the need to squeeze it all on to one DVD since the 360 version doesn't have the PS3's ability to use next-gen discs. (Or you can go with the pro-360 side who says the delay is b/c the PS3 is harder to program.)

Or the simpler explanation is neither: It's just not finished yet.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Yes and according to those lying fanboys goMac and Eug, GTAIV will be better on a DVD after all that compression and being forced to download levels from the net whenever you complete a section.

Being forced to download levels from the net? Where'd you get that?

The exclusive downloadable content will be available in March. For XBox only. No one is forcing you to download it, the PS3 simply won't have the content.

It's pretty obvious that people who want to play GTAIV will want to play it on the Xbox given a choice.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Yes and according to those lying fanboys goMac and Eug, GTAIV will be better on a DVD after all that compression and being forced to download levels from the net whenever you complete a section.

You mean the levels that won't be available for the PS3?

Boy, someone is going to be one disappointed kid when he buys GTA for the PS3...

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

Anyway, Eug, when is your lying going to stop? Please don't by an means. It's amusing watching you and goMac pat each other on the back for 56 pages and have nothing to show for it.

Somehow I just imagine a kid typing rabidly in his mom's dark basement, surrounded by soda cans, muttering to himself...

When did Apple clarify that they are neutral except for consumer land, Super Mario? If you could link us to the press release that would be great. Thanks.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Being forced to download levels from the net? Where'd you get that?

The exclusive downloadable content will be available in March. For XBox only. No one is forcing you to download it, the PS3 simply won't have the content.

They are levels that could have been made available on disc instead of online. The 360 doesn't have the disc capacity so online was the only choice. You'll be forced to download the levels if you want to complete the game. The only reason the PS3 doesn't have those extra maps and levels is because the exclusive content was paid for (see link on last page) by MS.

My point stands in relation to what was said earlier about the X Box 360 having a problem with larger and larger games.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

They are levels that could have been made available on disc instead of online. The 360 doesn't have the disc capacity so online was the only choice. You'll be forced to download the levels if you want to complete the game. The only reason the PS3 doesn't have those extra maps and levels is because the exclusive content was paid for (see link on last page) by MS.

My point stands in relation to what was said earlier about the X Box 360 having a problem with larger and larger games.

The reason the levels aren't on the disk is because they're coming out after the game is release. When you come up with a time machine so they can get the levels on the disc, let me know.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

So you're in favor of increasing the code base size and having longer debugging times?

Says who? You get nothing for free in programming. You should know that.