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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 63)
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Sep 8, 2007, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
If Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan comes out on HD-DVD... I'll be tempted to buy a HD-DVD player or a combo player. Having just re-watched the movie, it's simply amazing.

I'm starting to list my "must have movies" and it's a good split. If I list all of my current DVDs, it's heavily leaning Blu-ray.
Short-short list
Godfather I and II (maybe III), most of the Star Trek movies, 'specialy II, Indiana Jones series, Animal House, Blues Brothers. (HD) Starwars 1-6, Planet of the Apes series, Patton (BD)
( Last edited by Chongo; Sep 8, 2007 at 11:49 AM. )
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 02:45 PM
 
Unfortunately, I don't think that we're going to see many/any of the top-shelf motion picture franchises (except maybe Star Trek) until a single format is established. (Rick McCullum (sp?), the Star Wars producer, as already said as much about those films.)
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 03:36 PM
 
This is not about the BD v. HDDVD debate...

... but I was quite surprised to find a small chain in the Indianapolis area that rents both. It's called V H One Video Inc and there's a location on the East side of the city on Washington, cross street Mitthoeffer, across from Best Buy. Screw Blockbuster. And the other major chain here, Family Video, is waiting out the format war before committing to any format.

Does anyone know if there are any V H One Video Inc. stores outside of the Indianapolis area?
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 06:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by *TL View Post
Unfortunately, I don't think that we're going to see many/any of the top-shelf motion picture franchises (except maybe Star Trek) until a single format is established. (Rick McCullum (sp?), the Star Wars producer, as already said as much about those films.)
Only in the case of Star Wars and the Spielberg movies, yes. But no one else in Hollywood has the power of Lucas or Spielberg, and their movies will be released by their distributors as the distributors so choose.

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Sep 8, 2007, 06:45 PM
 
I have a feeling that Lucas, in his quest for more money, will release Star Wars on both formats, whether at the same time or separately.
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Sep 8, 2007, 06:52 PM
 
Knowing Lucas... he's going to release the updates IV, V and VI... (probably not even letterboxed... or only in 720p), in both formats, wait four years, release the originals with a handful of changes... wait four years, and then release an "ultimate edition" where it's the version that everyone really wants, but it will be a box set and require you to buy I, II and III as well for $399.

Knowing him, I'm surprised he doesn't offer IV in HD-DVD only, V in Blu-ray and IV in Windows Media.

Lucas really knows how to leach a movie...
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 06:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
This is not about the BD v. HDDVD debate...

... but I was quite surprised to find a small chain in the Indianapolis area that rents both. It's called V H One Video Inc and there's a location on the East side of the city on Washington, cross street Mitthoeffer, across from Best Buy. Screw Blockbuster. And the other major chain here, Family Video, is waiting out the format war before committing to any format.

Does anyone know if there are any V H One Video Inc. stores outside of the Indianapolis area?
I'm no fan of Blockbuster, but they represent over 50% of all rentals.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
 
If you are tempted by the lower prices of the low end Toshiba player, let me tell you that the HD-A2 lacks the following features found in many Blu-ray players including the PS3:
- 1080p
- 1080p 24fps (film mode) through HDMI
- full range (colour) HDMI
- optical pass through for dolby digital (bitstream mode outputs everything as DTS on HD-A2).
- smooth 1.5X fast forward with sound
- smooth 10X fast forward/reverse.

The old adage applies: You get what you pay for.

I own an HD-A2 for some Universal Studios titles and a PS3 for Blu-ray movies and games.

Blu-ray gives you more hardware features on the low end, a choice of brands and they have more studio support.

I've also found that Blu-ray titles are usually lower cost than HD DVD titles especially compared to HD DVD/DVD combo discs. So while you might save a little by compromising hardware features, you end up paying more per title.
( Last edited by aristotles; Sep 8, 2007 at 07:28 PM. )
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Sep 8, 2007, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
I'm no fan of Blockbuster, but they represent over 50% of all rentals.
... and Wal-mart represents the largest retailer of music and Windows is on 90%+ of all computers, that doesn't mean they don't suck.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 08:39 PM
 
How exactly do they suck? I'm not a fan (great mom and pop place just around the corner) but I've never had any issues with them.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
How exactly do they suck? I'm not a fan (great mom and pop place just around the corner) but I've never had any issues with them.
Here's 767,000 links.

I guess they don't suck though because you've never had an "issue" with them.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 08:59 PM
 
From the AVS Forum (HD DVD FanBoy section)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...77&postcount=7

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Exclamation Here's the scoop on Toshiba CEDIA Press Conference
I just got back to my hotel after attending Toshiba's CEDIA press conference with Jon Spackman, AVS HD DVD/BD Moderator.

The theme was Star Trek and the presenters were dressed in Star Trek outfits and the stage was set with Star Trek decorations. The first presentation was all about their new LCD panels, however, I'll just discuss the HD DVD side of the presentation here.

Here's the list of the new news.

1. All Gen 3 players will be packed with Born Identity and 300. All ValueElectronics.com Gen 3 advance orders qualify for the two additional titles packed with the players.

2. Buy a HD DVD player and the Star Trek box set and their is a mail-in rebate for a Star Trek HD DVD phaser remote control unit, very cool looking and sound effects. All ValueElectronics.com pre-orders are eligible.

3. The 5 free HD DVD movies will be extended till 2/28/08 and new titles are added to the selection. xBox and notebook PC with HD DVD drives will qualify for the 5 free HD DVD movie offer.

4. Just considering Warner, Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks and Dreamworks Animation more than 125 new titles will be release by the end of '07.

5. Shinco, Ventura, Alpine, Onkyo and Integra and the 3 new Gen 3 HD DVD players will all ship by early Q4 '07.

6. Total HD DVD player unit sales are expected to reach more than 1 million stand alone units by the end of ‘07.

7. Amazon and ValueEletronics.com report the A2 is the #1 best seller.

8. According to NPD data, BD stand alone players have 16% market share, HD DVD enjoys a 33% market share, while SD DVD holds 51%.

9. All studios are going to expand the connectivity features, like on the Star Trek HD DVD you can connect to CBS's server and get a tour of the Star Ship Enterprise.

10. All Toshiba products are Earth friendly and will carry the "Earth Protection" logo on their packaging. There is a long list of things Toshiba has developed to ensure their Earth friendly compliance.

HD DVD boldly goes where no other format has gone before.

-Robert
__________________
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Last edited by DTV TiVo Dealer : Yesterday at 09:10 AM. Reason: to correct item #6
( Last edited by Chongo; Sep 8, 2007 at 11:29 PM. )
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 09:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
If you are tempted by the lower prices of the low end Toshiba player, let me tell you that the HD-A2 lacks the following features found in many Blu-ray players including the PS3:
- 1080p
- 1080p 24fps (film mode) through HDMI
- full range (colour) HDMI
- optical pass through for dolby digital (bitstream mode outputs everything as DTS on HD-A2).
- smooth 1.5X fast forward with sound
- smooth 10X fast forward/reverse.

The old adage applies: You get what you pay for.

I own an HD-A2 for some Universal Studios titles and a PS3 for Blu-ray movies and games.

Blu-ray gives you more hardware features on the low end, a choice of brands and they have more studio support.

I've also found that Blu-ray titles are usually lower cost than HD DVD titles especially compared to HD DVD/DVD combo discs. So while you might save a little by compromising hardware features, you end up paying more per title.
So for an extra $400 I can get features I don't need? Fantastic! Oh but buy saving $400, I have a player that actually works with my universal remote.

And if you do require those features, the HD-A20 is still cheaper than the PS3...

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Sep 8, 2007, 09:17 PM
 
51 GB Triple-layer HD DVD has officially been approved by the DVD Forum
The DVD Forum, the international DVD standards authority, has approved a 51 GB single-sided triple-layer HD DVD disc for production. Extension to the HD DVD standard, which was submitted by Toshiba in April, received approval on 31 August 2007. Other recent developments include:

A single-sided triple-layer HD DVD/DVD hybrid (combi) disc, the DVD layer of which would be playable by legacy DVD players, is expected to be approved before the year end.

The Forum has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with China's Optical Memory National Engineering Research Centre (OMNERC) regarding licensing of the HD DVD-ROM China (formerly HD DVD-ROM China-only) format, specification for which was approved earlier this year. The only difference between the latter and the standard HD DVD format is the modulation scheme: the optical pickup in HD DVD China player will be able to play standard HD DVD discs, although Chinese discs will not be playable in standard HD DVD drives. According to the Forum, the Chinese government is keen to introduce the format domestically before the Olympic Games in August 2008. Large-scale integrates (LSIs) are already under development by manufacturers and use of AACS for the format is currently under negotiation.
No official word yet if it's fully compatible with gen 1 players. My guess is maybe yes, and apparently a few at CEDIA are claiming this, but no verification. Even if that's true, that's just in theory. Insiders are saying that in-depth real-world testing is only occurring now.

My take is that is that if it is workable in the real world with gen 1, 2, 3 players, then that's fine. It offers an option for those super long movies - 250 minutes or longer, if you want to put lossless audio tracks and lots of extras on the same disc.

However, if it's not workable in the real world with gen 1, 2, 3 players, then it's fairly useless, except in the situation where you may put say data/software on the 3rd layer for computers or something.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
If you are tempted by the lower prices of the low end Toshiba player, let me tell you that the HD-A2 lacks the following features found in many Blu-ray players including the PS3:
- 1080p
- 1080p 24fps (film mode) through HDMI
- full range (colour) HDMI
- optical pass through for dolby digital (bitstream mode outputs everything as DTS on HD-A2).
- smooth 1.5X fast forward with sound
- smooth 10X fast forward/reverse.

The old adage applies: You get what you pay for.

I own an HD-A2 for some Universal Studios titles and a PS3 for Blu-ray movies and games.

Blu-ray gives you more hardware features on the low end, a choice of brands and they have more studio support.

I've also found that Blu-ray titles are usually lower cost than HD DVD titles especially compared to HD DVD/DVD combo discs. So while you might save a little by compromising hardware features, you end up paying more per title.
Dude that's really out of left field. The specs for the A2 haven't exactly been hidden under the rug all of this time.

You may say "you get what you pay for". I say you don't pay for what you need. The only thing of real consequence in your list is the 1080P stuff. If you don't need it there's no need to pay for it. You can get the A2 for half the price of the low end of Blu-Ray. If you need the 1080P spend another $80 to a $100 for the next model up and you're still way under the low end price for BD.

The combo discs are usually only $4-$5 dollars more than their blu-ray counterparts. And those are only a portion of the movies. I'd have to buy around 40 or so combo discs to wipe out the price difference between my A2 and any blu-ray player. If the low end HD DVD players were priced the same as the low end Blu-Ray players you'd have a better argument.

Oceans 13 will have the same price for the Blu-Ray and HD DVD combo versions.
     
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Sep 8, 2007, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
51 GB Triple-layer HD DVD has officially been approved by the DVD Forum

No official word yet if it's fully compatible with gen 1 players. My guess is maybe yes, and apparently a few at CEDIA are claiming this, but no verification. Even if that's true, that's just in theory. Insiders are saying that in-depth real-world testing is only occurring now.

My take is that is that if it is workable in the real world with gen 1, 2, 3 players, then that's fine. It offers an option for those super long movies - 250 minutes or longer, if you want to put lossless audio tracks and lots of extras on the same disc.

However, if it's not workable in the real world with gen 1, 2, 3 players, then it's fairly useless, except in the situation where you may put say data/software on the 3rd layer for computers or something.
I have to believe that if the DVD Forum approved it that it has to have passed at least minimal testing. I doubt we'll see any kind of release without confirming backwards compatibility.

Now if it were Sony I wouldn't be so sure.

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Sep 8, 2007, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
I have to believe that if the DVD Forum approved it that it has to have passed at least minimal testing. I doubt we'll see any kind of release without confirming backwards compatibility.

Now if it were Sony I wouldn't be so sure.
Oh I agree. The original NEC drive in the 1st gen Toshiba HD-A1 was already listed as supporting TL45 right in the specs.

However, real world isn't the same thing as minimal testing. Furthermore, TL51 obviously has somewhat tighter tolerances than TL45 (or DL30), so it's possible that a subset of gen 1 machines that could work fine for TL45 might run into some problems with TL51 discs, esp. early ones.

I'm hoping that Toshiba and friends took all that into account with TL51, but I'm wondering why they didn't just stick with TL45. Was it just bragging rights, to have 1 GB more than Blu-ray? Cuz in reality, the added usefulness of TL51 over TL45 would be just about nil.
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 09:29 AM
 
we don't have time to stop for gas
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Awesome.

"Good News" indeed.

----

Back to the Blu-ray/HD DVD religious fight...
Originally Posted by *TL View Post
This weeks' (ending 8.26) sales numbers are out, 68/32 for Blu-ray.

Next week's numbers will be the ones to watch, since HD has two high-profile exclusives (Heroes and Blades of Glory) and BD has no new releases. Moreover, it will be the first test of HD's new strategy: advanced features that BD supposedly can't match (Heroes) and Paramount exclusivity (Blades). I'd expect HD to get at least 45%, and we'll see how it shakes out from there.
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I was predicting HD only to get about 36%-ish. If they get over 40% I will be pleasantly surprised.
Last week, the ratio of software sales was 56:44 BD:HD. I'm surprised, but I find it unlikely the ratio will be similar the coming week.

----

Here is an illustration of the Pirates of the Caribbean framing issues:





It's interesting to see that both discs have equal amounts of information present in the frame. However, the Blu-ray version has the wrong part of the frame. The DVD has the head, and the Blu-ray disc has the hand and waist.

I hope they provide free replacements.
( Last edited by Eug; Sep 9, 2007 at 11:13 AM. )
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 01:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post

Last week, the ratio of software sales was 56:44 BD:HD.
Hey, look at me calling it almost on the nose. Nobody has any notable titles this week, but the week of the 18th has a slew of format neutral releases, with each side having one exclusive A-list catalog title (A Few Good Men and Saturday Night Fever). I'll be so bold as to predict a return to ~68/32 status quo. [EDIT -- Saturday Night Fever has been canceled.]

It's interesting to see that both discs have equal amounts of information present in the frame. However, the Blu-ray version has the wrong part of the frame. The DVD has the head, and the Blu-ray disc has the hand and waist.
POTC was shot on Super35, which exposes a square-ish negative, then crops it for theatrical exhibition and widescreen home video. But if the telecine operator isn't on the ball doing the widescreen transfer, he can transfer the wrong area of the negative for home video, which he apparently did here.
( Last edited by *TL; Sep 11, 2007 at 01:38 PM. )
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 02:34 PM
 
So, here is the blurb from last year about the NEC drive supporting TL45 (click to enlarge):



I hope that translates into support for TL51 as well.
(The NEC HR-1100A is the drive used in the 1st generation Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player.)
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by *TL View Post
POTC was shot on Super35, which exposes a square-ish negative, then crops it for theatrical exhibition and widescreen home video. But if the telecine operator isn't on the ball doing the widescreen transfer, he can transfer the wrong area of the negative for home video, which he apparently did here.
A lot of these teething problems were evident in the early days of DVD too. They don't care about spot checking every frame because they'll release a better version at a later date with more extras and the most gullible will buy it. Just count how many versions of Terminator II, Blade Runner or the Star Wars series they keep coming out with. The first DVD release of Blade Runner had black bars on all four sides of the picture! When HD-DVD is dropped there will be many consumers rebuying movies in Blu-ray format and the studios will be all the merrier that they managed to sell the same movie twice. That's why they enjoy a format war as long as it doesn't go on too long.
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by PaperNotes View Post
When HD-DVD is dropped there will be many consumers rebuying movies in Blu-ray format and the studios will be all the merrier that they managed to sell the same movie twice. That's why they enjoy a format war as long as it doesn't go on too long.

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Sep 9, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
Are we really suffering through this argument again?
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Sep 9, 2007, 05:41 PM
 
I'm not suffering, I'm laughing.

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Sep 9, 2007, 08:33 PM
 
The war goes three-way:

New Medium Enterprises will launch its new ML622S HD VMD player next month, a 1080p, single-slotted HDMI 1.3, ethernet-upgradable device that is expected to cost only $150 at many wholesalers (though MSRP is $200).

HD VMD keeps costs low by using the same red lasers we see in DVD products, with the drives described by New Medium as DVD with newer firmware. For now the technology is still MPEG2 based, encoded at somewhere between 40-45MB/s (reports differ), putting it smack between Blu-ray and HD DVD data rates. 7.1 surround sound is supported, but the technology will not support Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master Audio formats.

I can't get a finalized maximum storage level on the HD VMD discs either, so just how much room is open for extras compared to Blu-ray and HD DVD is not clear. Reports vary between 20 and 40 GB.

Launching with 20 titles in the US this October, HD VMD may be the most consumer friendly technology on the market, but does anyone really see it taking over giants Sony and Toshiba...who are both fighting over the studios/scraps as it is?
     
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Sep 9, 2007, 08:43 PM
 
All depends on the studio support. Right now it's up in the air.

I suspect it could be a player if it actually had movies.

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Sep 10, 2007, 10:17 AM
 
Warner and Wal-Mart support up for bids?

Newsday: A high-definition fight scene in slow motion

The brinkmanship is intensifying. Another major studio, Warner Bros., is being courted by both camps and believed to be mulling over a lucrative offer that could bring such popular titles as "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" into the HD DVD camp, according to Hollywood insiders who requested anonymity because the talks were confidential.

What's more, Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the dominant seller of DVDs, has been contemplating whether to boot stand-alone HD DVD players from its shelves in favor of Blu-ray. Wal-Mart executives would not talk about the company's conversations with suppliers, but said it would continue to carry hardware and software in both formats until consumers indicate a clear preference.

Nonetheless, they expressed frustration with the continued format race.

"It would be good for the studios or somebody to make the call," said Kevin O'Conner, Wal-Mart's vice president and general merchandise manager for consumer electronics.


Retailers also have contributed to the recent jockeying. Target Corp., the nation's second-largest retailer, announced in July that it would sell only Blu-ray players. Its decision followed a bidding war in which Sony and three studio partners reportedly paid Target what one rival described as a "jaw-dropping" sum for prominent display of its hardware at the end of sales aisles. It will continue to sell the HD DVD drive for Microsoft Corp.'s Xbox 360 game console and HD DVD movies.

In a recent meeting at Wal-Mart's headquarters in Bentonville, Ark., Toshiba offered details of its new, $299 player and, according to knowledgeable sources, pledged a large cooperative promotional budget to support HD DVD sales.

But Wal-Mart executives say consumer preferences will determine the outcome.

"If they've offered big dollars, we haven't got them yet," said Wal-Mart's O'Conner. "The customer will drive what we're going to do."

For now, most consumers seem confused. As a result, sales have been slower than when the DVD was introduced to replace VHS players, said Jeff Mass, Wal-Mart's division merchandise manager for movies and music. Even the PlayStation 3, the console that Sony counted on as a Trojan horse to build support for Blu-ray movies in the home, has been less than a deciding factor.

"I'm not convinced that people are using those players to play movies," Mass said.
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
 
If Warner does go HD-DVD only, I think it wouldn't be too long before Disney goes neutral...
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Sep 10, 2007, 11:14 AM
 
If Warner goes HD DVD only it would effectively end the war. We'd have basically no neutral studios, and hybrid players would become the standard. Both formats would simply coexist.

Unless, of course, that drove Fox or Disney neutral. Then we'd begin the slow demise of Blu-Ray.

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Sep 10, 2007, 11:19 AM
 
Yeah, but one could just as easily say "If Warner goes Blu-ray only, then we'd begin the slow demise of HD DVD."

The point of the article is that their allegiance seems to be up for sale, and to certain extent, to the highest bidder.

P.S. It also illustrates what some of us have been saying all along. This is part of business in this format war, and neither side holds the moral high ground in terms of throwing money around. Both Blu-ray and HD DVD are more than willing to provide "incentives", despite what some Blu-ray fans tried to make us believe after the Paramount/Dreamworks declaration that they were going HD DVD exclusive.
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
 
Yeah, I don't get why the Bluray camp would throw purportedly large sums on money at Target. They're a big retailer, but they're not that big.
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Sep 10, 2007, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
P.S. It also illustrates what some of us have been saying all along. This is part of business in this format war, and neither side holds the moral high ground in terms of throwing money around. Both Blu-ray and HD DVD are more than willing to provide "incentives", despite what some Blu-ray fans tried to make us believe after the Paramount/Dreamworks declaration that they were going HD DVD exclusive.
Agree 100%. Although I think there was so much nashing of teeth over the Paramount deal because people had bought players with the (perhaps misplaced) assurance that Paramount would publish movies for them. It's slightly more pernicious to offer something then take it away than to never offer it in the first place, IMO, but there are no saints in this business.

Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Yeah, I don't get why the Bluray camp would throw purportedly large sums on money at Target. They're a big retailer, but they're not that big.
I can only speculate that Target is the #3 (?) retailer, but has a large percentage of higher-income shoppers who are more likely to own an HDTV and be in the market for an hi-def disc player.
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by *TL View Post
I can only speculate that Target is the #3 (?) retailer, but has a large percentage of higher-income shoppers who are more likely to own an HDTV and be in the market for an hi-def disc player.
Target is the number 2 retailer, just behind Wally World. Though I've never thought of them as a place to buy electronics from, especially not something as high dollar as a TV.

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Sep 10, 2007, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Target is the number 2 retailer, just behind Wally World. Though I've never thought of them as a place to buy electronics from, especially not something as high dollar as a TV.
Target and Wally World are both important. I personally don't like either store (although Target is irrelevant for us Canadians), but it's clear they are gorillas in the retail world.

It would seem to me (speculation) that Wally World is holding out for 1) cheaper players, and 2) better "incentives", whereas Target took the money and ran.

Both approaches have their merits. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in a couple of months. HD DVD has the cheaper player, but it also has less software sales, so it makes sense to sit back and wait... for the bidding war to escalate. However, it also makes sense to just take the money and go with it, like Target did. A bird in the hand, as they say.

Mind you, any deals for the Xmas rush will have to be signed soon. It's already September...
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 01:24 PM
 
Yeah but besides the video games and movies sections, the electronics departments of every Target I've ever been to has looked like it was an afterthought for the store. Walmart, on the other hand, puts the electronics in high-traffic areas and usually displays the section pretty prominently.

But that's just personal experience so it may not translate to the company as a whole.

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Sep 10, 2007, 01:26 PM
 
Here in Seattle, Costco is much much bigger than Target. Target is probably below Fred Meyer and Costco. For electronics, Best Buy is far bigger.
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Sep 10, 2007, 01:40 PM
 
Sorry, I was misinformed. According to Wikipedia they're #5:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Target Corporation (NYSE: TGT), headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota, is the fifth largest retailer by sales revenue in the United States behind Wal-Mart, The Home Depot, Kroger and Costco.

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Sep 10, 2007, 01:42 PM
 
Well, I hardly think The Home Depot and Kroger (a grocery store chain) are relevant to the discussion.
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
Well, I hardly think The Home Depot and Kroger (a grocery store chain) are relevant to the discussion.
Kroger also has several "Marketplace" stores that are basically Super Walmart/Target stores. In Arizona they are "Fry's Marketplace" There are Kroger, Smith's Marketplaces as well as Fred Meyer's
The Kroger Co. - Home Page
     
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Sep 10, 2007, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
Well, I hardly think The Home Depot and Kroger (a grocery store chain) are relevant to the discussion.
Shows what you know! I get all my HD movies from Home Depot!

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Sep 10, 2007, 04:06 PM
 
Does Kroger actually sell higher end consumer electronics like HD DVD and Blu-ray players in those special stores?

Not that it matters though, since the vast majority of Krogers are in fact just grocery stores AFAIK.
     
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Sep 11, 2007, 12:05 PM
 
The backers of HD DVD are reportedly wooing Warner Bros. to convert to their format : Dealerscope Today
Welcome to Dealerscope Today
Report: Toshiba Courting Warner to Go HD DVD-Only
September 11, 2007
Stephen Silver
Having persuaded Paramount and DreamWorks -thanks to a big wad of cash- to flip their hi-def disc allegiance to HD DVD-only, that format’s backer Toshiba is reportedly pushing to make the only remaining dual-format Hollywood studio do the same.

According to a report in the Los Angeles Times Monday, Warner Bros. is “mulling over a lucrative offer” to bring its titles out exclusively on HD DVD. The Blu-ray-backing Sony Corp., however, is also courting Warner to switch, the newspaper said. Reports at the time stated that Paramount was paid $100 million (and DreamWorks $50 million) to make the switch to HD DVD-only, but no numbers have been quoted in regards to the Warner Bros. offer.

Warner Bros. movies include the lucrative “Harry Potter” franchise, which recently became the highest-grossing film franchise in history. Warner also controls the rights to the Superman, Batman, and Matrix franchises. The company’s high-definition guru, Steve Nickerson, announced last month that he was leaving Warner Bros. It was stated at the time that Nickerson was leaving “pursue other opportunities that will be announced shortly,” but no such plans have as of yet been announced.

The LA Times story also reported that Wal*Mart is “contemplating whether to boot stand-alone HD DVD players from its shelves in favor of Blu-ray.” The retailer presently carries both formats.

From the editors of Dealerscope.
     
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Sep 11, 2007, 12:11 PM
 
If Warner goes HD-DVD only, there's no way that Walmart would boot HD-DVD from the shelves. I would halfway expect Blockbuster to reinstate HD-DVD in their stores.
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Sep 11, 2007, 12:28 PM
 
The LA Times/Newsday report is apparently old news and the offer has been rejected.

(Yes, I know HD supporters think TDB is a Blu-ray shill because they don't like its editorial position, but Bill Hunt has 10 years worth of industry contacts and there's no reason to believe his report is not accurate. WB also bought a full-page add last week in the Home Media mag trumpeting its format neutral position.)
     
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Sep 11, 2007, 12:52 PM
 
Au contraire, Blu-Ray Bill's recent (within the past 6 months) posts have indicated he is *VERY* biased in this issue, and needs to be taken with a giant pile of salt.

I'll disregard Bill's comment until I see *anything* to corroborate it.

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Sep 11, 2007, 01:10 PM
 
I doubt Warner would simply turn down more money than they could make from HD-DVD or Bluray sales over the next few years. They may be lukewarm on the deal, but I'm guessing they didn't just say no.
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Sep 11, 2007, 01:30 PM
 
I didn't say he wasn't biased (he's made his biases well known); I said there was no reason to believe that his reporting, as distinguished from his editorial position, wasn't accurate ("Our sources are telling us that Warner rejected that offer...." vs. "This is probably the same offer ....").
     
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Sep 11, 2007, 01:45 PM
 
I wonder what the fascination is with Bill Hunt. I think we'd all be better off just ignoring him.

Anyways, as for the article, it doesn't say that just HD DVD is wooing Warner. It says both HD DVD and Blu-ray are wooing Warner. And I fully believe that. That seems obvious.

However, I do think Warner has leaned towards HD DVD in the past, and if HD DVD can make the deal sweet enough, they'd go exclusively HD DVD. OTOH, Blu-ray isn't going to simply let that happen without a strong fight (in terms of $$$).
     
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Sep 11, 2007, 01:57 PM
 
I don't think it all comes down to money, though. And if it did, HD DVD would win by default as Warner gets royalties for the format.

Paramount said when they made their decision they also looked at the costs of production, the completed spec, and the *working* interactive features - and all of that helped sway their decision. I imagine that *if* Warner were to go HD DVD exclusive, they would also have similar reasons.

Also remember, Warner went neutral 3 weeks after Paramount did.

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