[Eug]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I don't think it all comes down to money, though. And if it did, HD DVD would win by default as Warner gets royalties for the format.

Paramount said when they made their decision they also looked at the costs of production, the completed spec, and the *working* interactive features - and all of that helped sway their decision. I imagine that *if* Warner were to go HD DVD exclusive, they would also have similar reasons.

Also remember, Warner went neutral 3 weeks after Paramount did.

Hints from the insiders are that Warner will stay neutral for the time being. That seems like the case to me, although stranger things have happened... like Paramount/Dreamworks.

Of course "incentives" are not the only thing that will win them over, but money is a powerful thing nonetheless.

[*TL]

Originally Posted by jokell82

I don't think it all comes down to money, though. And if it did, HD DVD would win by default as Warner gets royalties for the format.

That raises the question: Why is WB format neutral? I don't ask that rhetorically -- I've never understood why WB was supporting Blu-ray at all.

[jokell82]

I would assume because of higher disc sales, and Warner could make more money *now* being neutral.

Apparently Sony is subsidizing the costs of replication, so it wouldn't cost too much more to be format neutral.

[Eug]

Started watching Heroes on my Xbox 360 HD DVD.

1) This show is frickin awesome. Great story.

2) I can't access the web content on my 360. Lame.

[Eug]

Uh oh... According to Denon, the manufacturer of Blu-ray's first Profile 1.1 player:

JT: The profile itself is the next step in the Blu-ray evolution. HD DVD is what I call a "baked format", meaning it's basically done. There are some copy protection things, but that's later, and they’re not going to affect performance and playback of material. For Blu-ray, on the other hand, Profile 1.1 is just the next step — there's actually a Version 2 some time next year. That's going to deal with players and the software, so it's two-sided. But back to Profile 1.1. It mandates that players must have secondary audio and video processing for picture-in-picture capabilities, be able to support external storage of some type — or internal storage, it's really an option, I believe — for downloaded Web material. Current Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players do not have to have any “connect” port. Those that do, it's really for firmware update, but that’s the only thing it's really good for. Where HD DVD, has HDI, it's an interactive version. And even that port is required to go to a movie’s web site or a dedicated space to download extra material. When our player comes out, the first thing people will notice on the front panel is that is has an SD card slot. We give you an SD card, and obviously, you can buy others. You would take that to your computer, go to the movie website on the card and download this material, toss it into the player, and then be able to access that simultaneously with the movie playback.

LU: Will that load the information to the disc's menu system?

JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you to make it a truly interactive experience. After that, it's standard Blu-ray. But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.

Also:

LU: Why did Denon go with Blu-ray rather than HD DVD?

JT: We decided to go Blu-ray because we found a partner that we can work with at this point in time quicker than we could to do HD DVD. We're not picking one format over the other — we want to make that very clear. We happen to have a partner that we've worked with for years, and they wanted to work with us first, and so it just was like a nice marriage. The door is wide open for HD DVD, and as many have said, the market's going to tell us where we need to go. In our particular instance, our goal is to have a true universal audio/video player. All audio formats, including SACD and DVD-Audio, as well as HD DVD and Blu-ray video.

LU: So you would consider doing a combo player with Blu-ray and HD DVD?

JT: That's probably our number one consideration at this point in time. They're just starting to come out from some of the major players — obviously, Samsung has introduced theirs. They'll be out this fall, while the LG player, you know, it's not a true HD DVD player — it's not a licensed HD DVD product. LG has to make their own logo, it doesn't display menus for movies, and all this other stuff. So Samsung's going to be the first true combo player. And hats off to them.

[jokell82]

Heh, I was about to come in here and post the same thing.

1.1 discs possibly not working on 1.0 players? That is TERRIBLE news for Blu-Ray.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Heh, I was about to come in here and post the same thing.

1.1 discs possibly not working on 1.0 players? That is TERRIBLE news for Blu-Ray.

"not work properly" and "not working" are two different things. If the 1.0 players can do most of the primary functions (AKA, play the movie, have access to the extras, etc. etc.) I would still consider it functional, but it may not include some of the more advanced features.

[icruise]

And I thought we already discussed this issue at length.

[Dakarʒ]

Hope springs eternal.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

"not work properly" and "not working" are two different things. If the 1.0 players can do most of the primary functions (AKA, play the movie, have access to the extras, etc. etc.) I would still consider it functional, but it may not include some of the more advanced features.

That's not what he's talking about. The point is that 1.0 players may have compatibility issues with 1.1 discs (aka not play the movie properly, have access to the extras, etc. etc.).

I suspect many of these issues will be fixable through firmware updates, but that's not guaranteed either.

Originally Posted by icruise 

And I thought we already discussed this issue at length.

I think this article adds a level of reality to the discussion. Some here had simply assumed that all 1.0 players would have full compatibility with movie playback with all 1.1 discs, no problem. Now we have Denon's head hardware honcho saying that this is not the case.

[mitchell_pgh]

Well, to be fair, the Denon guy didn't really say much. "they may not work properly" basically says very little as to what would not work properly.

I don't see this format war being decided by such issues.

[starman]

Of course the HD-DVD fanbois have to be all over anything negative about BR, regardless of the fact that HD-DVD had its own set of problems.

^ 100

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Of course the HD-DVD fanbois have to be all over anything negative about BR, regardless of the fact that HD-DVD had its own set of problems.

^ 100

Translation: Well I can't say anything about this so I'll whine about "fanbois" and point out old problems with the other side!

As a Blu-Ray fan you can't see this as being an issue at all? It's just cannon fodder for the HD DVD camp, nothing more???

[starman]

Are you saying they're going to put out something that can't be fixed?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Are you saying they're going to put out something that can't be fixed?

Yep. Happens all the time, not sure why it's not believable that it could happen here.

Players were built to meet the 1.0 spec - if the 1.1 spec requires anything in it more than a simple firmware fix, you can bet that there will be players left in the dust. It may not be a *big* issue for 1.1 - maybe a few advanced features that don't work. However, the 2.0 spec will be a HUGE change and you can be sure more than a few people will be left in the dust.

Of course, one could always choose a format that has a *completed* spec already.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Yep. Happens all the time, not sure why it's not believable that it could happen here.

Players were built to meet the 1.0 spec - if the 1.1 spec requires anything in it more than a simple firmware fix, you can bet that there will be players left in the dust. It may not be a *big* issue for 1.1 - maybe a few advanced features that don't work. However, the 2.0 spec will be a HUGE change and you can be sure more than a few people will be left in the dust.

Of course, you could always choose a format that has a *completed* spec already.

Oh, haha! A /wink. Aren't you so clever.

And if you actually READ anything I wrote, I own BOTH formats.

Players MAY be left in the dust, but this goes back to a point I asked about a few weeks back: do 1.0 machines that you put a 1.1 disc in allow you to still play the movie?

[jokell82]

There I fixed it. Sheesh. No need to get all uppity.