Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

exca1ibur · Sep 14, 2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

I can't believe anyone is arguing that region coding is actually a good thing. That is the number 1 thing I hate the most about DVD, and even more than CSS.

Sure, the New Line release date discrepancy is not ideal, but I'd rather deal with that than region coding any day.

No one is saying its a good thing, we are just saying why its there.

icruise · Sep 14, 2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

I can't believe anyone is arguing that region coding is actually a good thing. That is the number 1 thing I hate the most about DVD, and even more than CSS.

Like DRM, region coding isn't really good, but I can't say that it's 100% bad. It doesn't really affect most people and it makes the movie companies feel more secure, and thus (at least theoretically) more likely to release movies on a particular format. However, I do agree with the people saying that the movie industry needs to move beyond the business models that they've been using for so long.

Eug · Sep 14, 2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

No one is saying its a good thing, we are just saying why its there.

Maybe not you, but some here are saying it's a good thing.

I know why it is there, but I think the HD DVD group made the smarter decision in leaving it out. Note however that it could theoretically be introduced in the future... and that scares me. Fortunately, we who bought early won't be affected. Those who buy later could get locked into region coding... which would suck royally... for them. (Or at least some of them. I agree that many of them won't care.)

exca1ibur · Sep 14, 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

P.S. It works both ways. Lack of region coding makes some people argue that it may delay some titles for the US. Well, one could just as easily argue (are more justifiably so) that lack of region coding brings some titles to our homes quicker.

I've had Harry Potter on HD DVD for months, because of the lack of region coding, even though it hasn't actually been released here. Similarly, I've had La Haine on HD DVD for months, because of the lack of region coding. I'd be surprised if gets released here before 2009.

Thats the point. Once they get a distributor for your region that's a lost sale right there.

Personally, I think with both HD-DVD and Blu Ray, there would be no need for it as you have room to put all the regional content on one disc and just let people import till they drop if they want it. You can do with the PS3 games, the motion picture companies might want to try that with a few films to at least test the market at least.

*TL · Sep 14, 2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

I can't believe anyone is arguing that region coding is actually a good thing. That is the number 1 thing I hate the most about DVD, and even more than CSS.

I don't think anyone has argued it's a "good thing"; it's being argued that it's a rational response for a distributor to make. It's also being argued that an unintentional consequence to a lack of region coding is that in some cases there will be less product on store shelves.

(Indeed, based on what New Line is doing here, it's possible region coding has lead to MORE choice on DVD for the savvy enthusiast. Distributors can put out more discs with reasonable assurances the he doesn't have to compete with other distributors. The enthusiast with an extra $75 for a region-free player can take advantage of this.)

pooka · Sep 14, 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

I can't believe anyone is arguing that region coding is actually a good thing. That is the number 1 thing I hate the most about DVD, and even more than CSS.

Sure, the New Line release date discrepancy is not ideal, but I'd rather deal with that than region coding any day.

It actually helps me make more sense of how anyone could find BluRay the lesser evil in this format war. Some people prefer structure in their lives I guess. Guidance. And BluRay offers greater protection for content producers which in turn helps people feel better... knowing that these companies investments are protected and that they will continue to supply them and their families with the content they've come to love.

I can't fault people for that....

starman · Sep 14, 2007, 11:54 AM

Who's saying it's a good thing? We're saying why it exists. The only reference to it being "good" is the point *TL brought up where local distributors would want you to buy the product from them and not outside. Other than that, I'm not thrilled with it either, I'm just stating the reasons behind its existence.

I paid around $300 (if not more) for a Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children box set from Japan. If I didn't have a region-free HTPC, I'd be screwed.

Of course, inside there is a region-coded version of FF:VII for Japan only

Next people will be saying that everything should be in English

Eug · 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Thats the point. Once they get a distributor for your region that's a lost sale right there.

Exactly, which is why they would be better off timing these movies disc releases better worldwide.

Fortunately (from your point of view) for some of them, the biggest barrier to buying overseas releases remains to a certain extent: Cost and the hassle factor.

Originally Posted by starman

Next people will be saying that everything should be in English

Actually, since you mention it... I applaud the overseas distributors who put English subtitles on their HD DVD releases. They gain sales from people like me.

P.S. So it seems most of you (although not all of you) agree that region coding sucks. I'm just surprised so many are so quick to defend it even though you agree it sucks. I have ALWAYS ABSOLUTELY HATED REGION CODING and much, much more than DRM.

I'm just glad that region coding is no longer an issue on DVD for me (since I have region free players), and the DVD Forum was smart enough to leave it out of HD DVD players right from Day 1.

*TL · Sep 14, 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

So it seems most of you (although not all of you) agree that region coding sucks. I'm just surprised so many are so quick to defend it even though you agree it sucks.

Again, understanding and acknowledging the rationale != defending.

Actually, given that it's one of the most benign anticompetitive measures ever created, legally circumvented with zero extra expense, I've never been able to get too worked up about it. And given that HD could still implement region coding down the road and BD has only sporadically used it, why are we going around in circles about it.

analogue SPRINKLES · Sep 14, 2007, 12:29 PM

New Line to delay HD DVD release, due to lack of region coding - Engadget HD

Eug · Sep 14, 2007, 12:39 PM

So, the more I read about TL51 GB, the more I believe that some players might have some problem with it.

Insiders are saying that it does indeed work on all models of HD DVD players. However, they also say that while initial testing has been good, they're not willing to say just yet it will translate into the real world for 1st gen players. ie. It works on 1st gen, 2nd gen, and 3rd gen players, but the 1st gen players probably are more picky.

Furthermore, several of the insiders are trying to play down the importance of TL51 (which I think they should because DL30 is fine for the vast majority of releases), which again suggests to me that its implementation so far isn't 100% perfect.

The above scenario kind of reminds me of DVD-R in the early days. DVD-R did in fact work on most players, but some were much better than others with DVD-R, and the quality of the burn and the media made a big difference. Whereas nowadays, most players work fine with even relatively cheap media.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

New Line to delay HD DVD release, due to lack of region coding - Engadget HD

Uh... We've been discussing this for quite some time now...

*TL · Sep 20, 2007, 02:57 PM

Everybody pack up and go home? Or just waiting for someone to say something inflammatory?

jokell82 · Sep 20, 2007, 03:18 PM

Well Fox just announced that two of its titles scheduled for release in October would be delayed. Color me shocked. I'm wondering if Day After Tomorrow will get delayed too...

*TL · Sep 21, 2007, 02:33 PM

Independent distributors confirm that format war—and Paramount decision—is keeping them out of hi-def formats (pgs. 1 & 21):

The high-def decision seemed so easy for Topics Entertainment.

[T]he independent was convinced Blu-ray would be the best format for its scenic "Over America" and "Over California" titles.

But then Paramount and DreamWorks … dropped their support of Blu-ray, going exclusively with HD DVD.

"We had a meeting set with Sony DADC the day after the Paramount news was released …. Sony was coming by to finalize the agreement with us, [but] due to the Paramount news we never saw the agreement, as we backed out right away."

….

"I'm 99% sure we're going to go with Blu-ray…. [but] It's very risky for us because if we put up the money to do this and the other format wins, then we basically just blew a good amount of money."

Paramount's move reminded independents such as Topics that this is still very much a studio war, and gave them less incentive to pick a side.

….

Larry Cohen, principal of Westlake Entertainment said: "The longer the format wars continue, the harder it is for consumers to know which way to go. It's unfortunate that one clear-cut standard has not yet materialized."

….

Allumination Filmworks CEO Cheryl Freeman said her company will make a decision [to go hi-def] "based on consumer and retailer demand."

"We do believe that [the Paramount decision] will prolong the format war," she said.

jokell82 · Sep 21, 2007, 02:34 PM

****! I was so looking forward to none of those movies!

goMac · Sep 21, 2007, 03:50 PM

I don't understand why the Bluray camp is whining about this. The HD-DVD camp was perfectly willing to integrate the formats and the Bluray camp wouldn't go for it. God forbid they allow iHD on their precious Bluray discs.

angelmb · Sep 21, 2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't understand why the Bluray camp is whining about this.

While I don't care at all about who is going to win High-Definition wars, I suspect than William Wrigley Jr. wasn't mad at all when he stated When two men in business always agree, one of them is unnecessary.

BTW, I think 'blu-ray/hd-dvd… who is whining? would fit better as thread title