[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

The 640 quote was also from Microsoft. Apple said "no video on iPod". What's your point again?

My point is that MS has no reason to make a 360 with a built-in HD-DVD drive. Unlike Sony (who is relying on the PS3 to help them win the next-gen DVD war), MS has no horse in this race (although technically aligned with HD-DVD). If Blu-Ray ends up winning, there is no reason MS could not make a Blu-Ray add-on to the 360. If HD-DVD wins, PS3 owners are stuck with Blu-Ray (myself included).

Bottom line: options are always good.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

My point is that MS has no reason to make a 360 with a built-in HD-DVD drive. Unlike Sony (who is relying on the PS3 to help them win the next-gen DVD war), MS has no horse in this race (although technically aligned with HD-DVD).

MS helped design iHD.

Also, HD DVD seems to use MS's VC-1 codec much more often than Blu-ray (although that may change).

[Dark Helmet]

ok everything else aside why is the release titles for Blu-ray over the next 3 months 5x bigger than HD-DVD's?

[Jawbone54]

Playstation 3 factor?

Just my theory, but I'm not extremely knowledgeable on how these format wars are going.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Really? That's good I guess, but Superman Returns really sucks on DVD. (I saw it on display on a Bravia at the Sony Store and there were artifacts everywhere.)

A friend came over on Saturday and I happened to have it on. He has never seen HD-DVD or BluRay before and him and his wife were both really impressed with the picture quality.

I haven't flipped the disc over and looked at the DVD version yet. Maybe I'll try it tonight, see the difference.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

ok everything else aside why is the release titles for Blu-ray over the next 3 months 5x bigger than HD-DVD's?

HD DVD has announced that they will be releasing 300+ new HD DVD titles in 2007.

P.S. Fox is claiming that in the week of Xmas 2006, Blu-ray sold more titles than HD DVD, but the graph has a date of 2010.

[Dark Helmet]

Hey eug didn't you say you don't think the game systems will have much influence on the war?

"More interesting, however, is the report's claim that of the 695,000 current US consumers that own either a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player, 400,000 own Blu-ray because they bought a PS3 (58%) and 150,000 own HD-DVD because they bought Microsoft's HD-DVD upgrade kit for the 360 (22%). So PS3s and Xbox 360s used as movie players account for 80% of total HD players in the market."

PS3, Xbox 360 account for 80% of Blu-ray, HD-DVD players - Joystiq

Sure we can pick it apart on which PS3 owners are watching movies on it but it at least shows the devices are out there now they just need to temp us with the software.

Also the PS3's numbers are 1 million in the US now.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Hey eug didn't you say you don't think the game systems will have much influence on the war?

"More interesting, however, is the report's claim that of the 695,000 current US consumers that own either a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player, 400,000 own Blu-ray because they bought a PS3 (58%) and 150,000 own HD-DVD because they bought Microsoft's HD-DVD upgrade kit for the 360 (22%). So PS3s and Xbox 360s used as movie players account for 80% of total HD players in the market."

PS3, Xbox 360 account for 80% of Blu-ray, HD-DVD players - Joystiq

Sure we can pick it apart on which PS3 owners are watching movies on it but it at least shows the devices are out there now they just need to temp us with the software.

Also the PS3's numbers are 1 million in the US now.

Actually what I said is that DVD game systems didn't have a huge impact on DVD adoption.

I do think that game systems will have more impact on HD disc adoption this time around, but I still don't think it will be as important as some believe it will be.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Actually what I said is that DVD game systems didn't have a huge impact on DVD adoption.

I do think that game systems will have more impact on HD disc adoption this time around, but I still don't think it will be as important as some believe it will be.

Hmm, I definitely remember you saying home systems of this gen aren't going to make a difference after I said when the PS3 ships they will have an overnight blu-ray install base of 1 million.

Anywho, no matter.

For right now it seems 80% or higher of HD systems is through gamers. A year from now it could be the same, less or higher. So at least we can say that the LAUNCH of both formats is being pushed by the game systems. They can either sustain them or drop drastically.

I went to the music store the other day and ask them if they carried blu-ray disks. He said no but since december everyone is coming in and asking for them. I assume it is 95% PS3 owners.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

ok everything else aside why is the release titles for Blu-ray over the next 3 months 5x bigger than HD-DVD's?

Blu ray got contracts with more companies than HD. There's a Hd dvd vs blu ray forum out there where you can learn a lot of stuff on this.

Most companies picked blu ray because it is technically superior 50 GB disks and all that. Llarger disk allows movies to be encoded at higher bit rates/quality. HD DVD until recently only did 1080i output on their players while all blu ray are 1080p @60fps (p = better). The blu ray can be put on paper disks (for data purposes). HD DVD has been mildly successful mainly because their product was out first, and they saved money by ripping people off with their cheap $499 1080i players. The only 1080p HD dvd player I have seen was a new model and $1000 . Unfortunately most people don't know what i or p means.... all they see is HD in the name and think its all the same.

HD and its VC1 involvment scares me. This is microsoft trying to bully its way into a market it doesn't belong in again (vc1 is based off the wmv...need I say more). If any compression is going to be used it should be mpeg-4 not VC1; having said that all movies should be done in mpeg 2 for now for highest quality. Part of what makes VC1 appealing is its interlacing (the nasty "i" again) capabilities. As many of you video people out there know interlacing is an old half assed way of doing things and it needs to be done away with.

AFAIK their are more blu ray players out there than HD when counting all xbox add ons and ps3s as players. Sony has sold about 1mil so far and predicts about 6 mil by march meaning 1 in every 50 people will have a bd player by at least july... there is a very educated guess out there saying about 150,000 HD dvd players have sold (counting xbox adds) by new year. It has turned out that blu ray in the ps3 was a key selling point (not the gaming abilities). Many people including myself have ps3 just for blu ray. When I went to sears day after xmas there were about 4 people looking for ps3 soley as a bd player. I was there to buy a HD player until I saw that "i".

The PS3 shortage IMO is a Sony marketing gimmick. (i think) sony made a near perfect estimate of how many ps3s would sell by new years. If you go to the stores you should see many PS3 $600 model on the shelves. I have been told by many stores that they dont even intend to order more $500 models. The cost to make these models is more than what sony sells them for. It seems they are making up some loss with wifi and a few extra gigs.

I hope neither formate wins it all, I'd like to see some competition for a while and hopfully the xbox can keep HD afloat; as sony can be kinda scary too.. But when I went to the video store yesturday to rent a blu ray most of them were checked out, the shelf for HD however was hardly touched.

Anyway Ta Ta for now

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Many people including myself have ps3 just for blu ray.

It's funny, everyone I know that has or wants a PS3 is interested in it BECAUSE of the Blu-ray yet many people here and in the media make it sound like it is some evil $200 drive that is forced onto everyone.

I would NOT have got a PS3 as soon as I did if it wasn't for the Blu-ray. I would have got a PS3 anyway even if it didn't have a BR but not for that price or as quickly.

Out of all my systems I am surprisingly using the PS3 the most for watching both DVD's and BR. On top of that I play lots of the game demo's, PS2 games and my one PS3 game. I love the damn thing and when march rolls around with some more killer titles out I will be thrilled.

The only thing I would change on the PS3 is to upconvert DVD"s and rumble in the controller. Neither of those things are even close to a deal breaker to me.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

HD and its VC1 involvment scares me. This is microsoft trying to bully its way into a market it doesn't belong in again (vc1 is based off the wmv...need I say more). If any compression is going to be used it should be mpeg-4 not VC1; having said that all movies should be done in mpeg 2 for now for highest quality. Part of what makes VC1 appealing is its interlacing (the nasty "i" again) capabilities. As many of you video people out there know interlacing is an old half assed way of doing things and it needs to be done away with.

VC1 support is mandatory on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

Interlacing has nothing to do with VC-1 on Blu-ray and HD DVD, since all VC-1 movies are encoded as 1080p.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

VC1 support is mandatory on both Blu-ray and HD DVD.

Interlacing has nothing to do with VC-1 on Blu-ray and HD DVD, since all VC-1 movies are encoded as 1080p.

I know its madatory to support it on both. I can see it showing up more often on HD.

I didn't know all VC-1 movies were encoded at 1080p. Are you sure of this? I read something that said 1080i was the main catch for VC-1's acceptance. It would allow video to be broadcast at lower bandwiths. If I come accross it I will post the link. Maybe its just for cable? In any case 'i' needs to go away.. It wasn't even neccesary with DVDs but it was often there to save space.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

I know its madatory to support it on both. I can see it showing up more often on HD.

Yes, basically VC-1 or H.264 must be used on HD DVD for movies of any length, because of space restrictions. MPEG2 takes up too much space.

On Blu-ray, it's more of a mix of H.264, VC-1, or MPEG2. It seems that several of the neutral companies are transitioning to VC-1 however, so they can encode just once in VC-1 and release it on both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I didn't know all VC-1 movies were encoded at 1080p.

Yes. AFAIK, all 24 fps movies released so far are 1080p24, whether they are MPEG2, H.264, or VC-1. It would make no sense to encode them at anything different. They could use 1080p30 though for some video stuff.

Maybe its just for cable? In any case 'i' needs to go away.. It wasn't even neccesary with DVDs but it was often there to save space.

There is no such thing as 1080p for broadcast video. There is 720p and 1080i. And 1080i looks better than 720p on a lot of content. Personally, I'm quite happy with 1080i resolution for broadcast video. What I'm not happy with though is the MPEG2 artifacts with 1080i cable, since the MPEG2 bitrates they use are too low.

[el chupacabra]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

There is no such thing as 1080p for broadcast video. There is 720p and 1080i. And 1080i looks better than 720p on a lot of content. Personally, I'm quite happy with 1080i resolution for broadcast video. What I'm not happy with though is the MPEG2 artifacts with 1080i cable, since the MPEG2 bitrates they use are too low.

Darn those space restrictions of HD DVD....looks like they're going to hold back big Blu

There's no 1080p 'now' in broadcasting, but when trying to standardize for the future some in the industry were complaining it would take too much bandwidth. I like to hold companies to higher standards. They all rip us off they have plenty of money to do the upgrades. Cable companies and what not are all monopolys.

I'll have to find that linky tomorrow sometime because it had a great deal on VC1 and interlacing. It's been a while since I read it though.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

And 1080i looks better than 720p on a lot of content.

What kind of content?

Everything I have seen over the years says 720p is better for motions with a lot of movement such as sports or any action based show/movie.