[ort888]

Yeah, I have yet to upgrade to HD cable/satellite. It costs way more and the amount of HD content is really pretty pathetic. Especially with the shows I watch. Very few are in HD.

If I was a football fan it might be worth it.

That's how my conversation with the woman started. I tld her I had an HDTV, but no HD broadcasts and she had the gall to try and debate me on the subject.

I know that in the online realm, I am a complete n00b in the home theater department, but in my circle of friends/family and co-workers, I might as well be the Home-Theater Einstein. And I don't consider myself hardcore about it AT ALL.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yeah, I have yet to upgrade to HD cable/satellite. It costs way more and the amount of HD content is really pretty pathetic. Especially with the shows I watch. Very few are in HD.

If I was a football fan it might be worth it.

That's how my conversation with the woman started. I tld her I had an HDTV, but no HD broadcasts and she had the gall to try and debate me on the subject.

I know that in the online realm, I am a complete n00b in the home theater department, but in my circle of friends/family and co-workers, I might as well be the Home-Theater Einstein. And I don't consider myself hardcore about it AT ALL.

So just get an OTA antenna and get free local HD and call it a day. Upgrade to HD Cable/Sat when you feel you need it. 90% of the football games I watch in HD over the air because Dish Network doesn't get FoxHD.

[ort888]

Yeah, but I also TiVo everything, so I would have to upgrade that too.

There aren't any HD network shows I even watch. Maybe the Office... but I could really give 2 craps about that in HD.

[exca1ibur]

Yeah, I hear you there. I personally like to watch Lost, 24 and NFL games in HD. I'd like to get an HD Tivo, I just can't understand why I need to pay a monthly fee for their systems.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Almost all the shows I watch are in HD. I love it.

[ort888]

The best money I spend every month is the $12.95 I send to TiVo.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

yeah, and it doesn't help matters when some stations broadcast mainly SD on their HD channel (e.g., TBS).

Yeah my favorite is still when I'm watching Battlestar Galactica, which is filmed in HD, on an HD channel on my HDTV with HD cable thru my HD DVR and it's still in farking SD!!! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. I still haven't seen my favorite show in HD once and since I got a PS3 I probably never will. I wish I was stupid enough to THINK that it was HD so I could be totally impressed by the quality of it all.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Yeah my favorite is still when I'm watching Battlestar Galactica, which is filmed in HD, on an HD channel on my HDTV with HD cable thru my HD DVR and it's still in farking SD!!! It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic. I still haven't seen my favorite show in HD once and since I got a PS3 I probably never will. I wish I was stupid enough to THINK that it was HD so I could be totally impressed by the quality of it all.

Ya I hate that like there is no tomorrow. How can broadcasters be so stupid?!!

When BSG Razor aired I purposely didn't watch it because they broadcast it in SD. I waited a week for the DVD.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That was before the free movie offer, and I hate to underestimate the intelligence of anyone, but some people may have thought that free Blu-Ray was just a DVD.

"Look ma! They included this DVD from Blu Ray!"

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ok let see... 11 million PS3's SOLD by March of next year.
Sony: Sony Banking On Selling 11 Million PS3s By March 08

To clarify, Sony will have shipped 11 million PS3's by March and they are hoping they sell them all.

Kinda sorta different.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by goMac 

To clarify, Sony will have shipped 11 million PS3's by March and they are hoping they sell them all.

PS3's what?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

To clarify, Sony will have shipped 11 million PS3's by March and they are hoping they sell them all.

Kinda sorta different.

That's not right either. To clarify, Sony hopes to ship 11 million PS3s by the end of March 2008.

And we all know how accurate Sony is with its predictions...

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

To clarify, Sony will have shipped 11 million PS3's by March and they are hoping they sell them all.

Kinda sorta different.

To clarify, "Sony now count "sold" as sitting in a customer's hands, not just shipped to retail".

Kinda sort learn to read.

[ort888]

Anything that is said by Sony PR needs to be run though the BS filter.

I don't really believe anything they say at this point.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's not right either. To clarify, Sony hopes to ship 11 million PS3s by the end of March 2008.

And we all know how accurate Sony is with its predictions...

Doesn't matter. It is obvious the PS3 is selling well now that the first year is over.
Lets say Sony is way the hell off with 11 million and only sell 8 million. That is still an assload of bad for HD-DVD.

[ort888]

Yeah, I think the real question now is if HD DVD is going to be able to remain viable. Blu-ray is not going to lose. Will they win or will we see some form of stale-mate?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Yeah, I hear you there. I personally like to watch Lost, 24 and NFL games in HD. I'd like to get an HD Tivo, I just can't understand why I need to pay a monthly fee for their systems.

You don't need to pay a monthly fee.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I think Warner next year will decide it.

If warner goes HD-DVD only then it will extend the war even longer.

If warner goes Blu only HD-DVD won't survive.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

You don't need to pay a monthly fee.

https://www3.tivo.com/store/plans.do

"A subscription to the TiVo service is required and the TiVo box will not work without a paid subscription to the TiVo service. That means that if you choose to cancel the subscription you are purchasing today, the box will no longer work."

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yep. I run into this all the time. I have friends that buy HDTV's and they invite people over to watch it. So I get there, and the image is all distorted, and they're just watching the standard SD feed stretched to widescreen. And they think they're watching it in HD.

One of the funniest things along these lines are the TV's set up at a local restaurant. They have several HD set paired with HD cable boxes. They'll have the boxes tuned to an HD channel. But they have the box outputting a letter boxed 4:3 signal. Then they have the TV stretching the 4:3 to fill the screen. So they end up with both squish-o-vision and bars on the top and bottom of the picture. I have seen one of the TVs correctly displaying HD before in the past. But this screw up has been consistent over the last couple of months.

Part of me wants to be nice and tell them they are wasting money paying extra for the HD boxes if they aren't going to bother using them properly. The other part of me doesn't want to give free technical help to these clueless people.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

How many HD-DVD ads have you ever seen on TV?

I've seen 1 or 2 in months.

On the other hand I see tons of BR ads. Sony and Disney really push the advertising on it.

[mrtew]

Blade Runner: Ultimate Collector's Edition

This spectacular 5-disc set includes all five version of the legendary Sci-Fi film from Director Ridley Scott - the definitive Final Cut with all new 5.1 audio, three additional versions of the film, and the rare Work Print version - in addition to the in-depth feature length documentary "Dangerous Days", and one complete disc of bonus content including over 80-minutes of never-before-seen deleted scenes.

Blu-ray.com - Blade Runner: Ultimate Collector's Edition (Blu-ray)

[analogue SPRINKLES]

This is the one reason I wanted HD-DVD. Looks like that idea is dead now:

On BSG Season 1 on HD-DVD:

"The episodes are presented with an underwhelming 1080p/VC-1 transfer that fails to distinguish itself very well from the already problematic HD broadcast. Worse still, the overall video quality doesn't look much better than it does on standard DVD. From the very first episode, I was shocked to find the image cluttered with light source noise, minor to moderate artifacting, and obvious color banding. If I only had to deal with the show's use of heavy grain, I could overlook the gritty picture and chalk up the roughness to directorial intent. But the frequency and diversity of noise in this presentation is a problem I'd expect to find on DirecTV, not HD DVD.

To make matters worse, the transfer also fumbles some key fundamentals. The darkest areas of the screen aren't always pitch black (resulting in space scenes that lack depth), contrast is unreliable, and fine detail isn't sufficiently improved when compared to the HD broadcast and the standard DVDs. I did a few side-by-side comparisons between the HD DVDs and DVDs and found too many scenes that looked depressingly similar. There's still a noticeable difference between the two, but it isn't as apparent as the comparisons I've made when examining higher tiered HD DVD transfers."

HD DVD Review: Battlestar Galactica: Season One | High-Def Digest

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

How many HD-DVD ads have you ever seen on TV?

I've seen 1 or 2 in months.

On the other hand I see tons of BR ads. Sony and Disney really push the advertising on it.

I have seen a fair number of HD DVD ads. Several per week lately and I don't even watch that much TV. I have seen more BR ads though.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

This is the one reason I wanted HD-DVD. Looks like that idea is dead now:

On BSG Season 1 on HD-DVD:

HD DVD Review: Battlestar Galactica: Season One | High-Def Digest

Concerning, but it should be noted that this is right on the packaging:

"The HD-DVD release of Battlestar Galactica: Season One accurately preserves the artistic intentions of the filmmakers. The stylized visual elements are intentional and faithful to the broadcast presentation of the show."

[hyteckit]

Go HDDVD!

Just cause I recently bought an HDDVD player. Got Planet Earth. I help make it the number one seller on Amazon for HDDVD's. Also got the Ultimate Matrix collection.

I was one of the early adopters to jump on the DVD bandwagon back in the 90's. Paid $400 for my first DVD player from Pioneer and got 5 free movies from Warner. Jumanji, The Fugitive, and some other movies. I didn't jump on the DVD bandwagon just because of picture quality, even though it was one of the main reasons. If I did, I would have bought a laserdisc player long before. :-D What made me an early adopter of the DVD format was picture quality, the storage medium, and not having to deal with the hassles of a video tape. Prices for movies on DVD and videotape were the same price. Laserdisc movies were expensive, like $70. DVD movies were like $19 to $25.

Benefits of DVD over videotape

-- Picture Quality
-- No need to rewind
-- Access to any part of the movie quickly
-- Picture quality doesn't degrade over time.
-- Storage life is longer. Videotape gets eaten by videotape players.

For most consumers, you have to convince them what's the advantage of the new hidef format over their current DVD players that they are willing to spend more money on a hidef player compare to a dvd player, and more money on hidef movies compare to dvd movies. If hidef players and movies are the same price as the dvd format, then it's a no brainer. Picture quality and storage capacity alone will not convince me or most consumers to jump from DVD to the new hidef format.

What advantages does Bluray offer over DVD?
-- Better picture quality
-- Higher Storage capacity
-- Interactive menus

Most consumers don't really care about storage capacity as long as the movie fits on one disc and looks good. Extras can be on separate disc. Doesn't really matter. Picture quality? Well, is the picture quality alone able to convince most customers to spend $400 for a blueray player and pay twice as much for the same movie that they can get on DVD? Hell no! Remember, lots of people download movies from bittorrent with picture quality worst than DVD. Not to mention that people watch movies on their tiny iPods or other tiny media devices.

What advantages does HDDVD player offer over DVD
-- Better picture quality
-- Higher storage capacity
-- Interactive menus
-- PIP
-- Downloadable web content
-- Persistent storage

Bluray advantages over HDDVD
-- Slightly better picture quality. Noticeable to less than 1 percent of the population when sitting 2 feet away from their 40 plus inch HDTV 1080p plasma or LCD.
-- Higher storage capacity. Not a big deal. If a movie fits on a disc, it fits on a disc. HDDVD triple layer suppose to outdo bluray's capacity, but I don't really care
-- More hardware makers.
-- Disney, Sony, and Fox movies

HDDVD advantages over Blueray
-- Player is much cheaper
-- All players have ethernet jack and access to web content
-- More features like PIP
-- Universal movies and some warner exclusives

Reason I went with HDDVD is cheaper player and it's cool features such as downloadable web content, persistent storage, PIP, and interactive features.

Anyway, my HD-A3 HDDVD player is so freaking buggy. It's 3rd generation for Christ sake. Everytime I put in a new HDDVD movie, I pray that I able to play the whole movie without running into problems like freezing and error codes. Fast forwarding is worst than DVDs. No stop and resume later, have to bookmark. Tons of minor annoyances.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Anyway, my HD-A3 HDDVD player is so freaking buggy. It's 3rd generation for Christ sake. Everytime I put in a new HDDVD movie, I pray that I able to play the whole movie without running into problems like freezing and error codes.

Take it (or the disc) back.

I have the second gen HD-A2 and have no freezing problems or error codes displayed with any of my discs. I don't have any such problems with my Xbox 360 HD DVD drive either.

The one problem I've encountered is with Transformers. When I first loaded it on my 360, it got stuck on the intro screen. I had to delete my Xbox 360's cache to make it work. Stupid, but true. I could see this annoying people, because they (like I) didn't know that clearing the cache would solve the problem. I had to look online to find this out.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Concerning, but it should be noted that this is right on the packaging:

"The HD-DVD release of Battlestar Galactica: Season One accurately preserves the artistic intentions of the filmmakers. The stylized visual elements are intentional and faithful to the broadcast presentation of the show."

Grain is very evident, as are the extreme changes in contrast, but nonetheless the HD DVD is apparently a huge improvement over the DVD:

DVD capture
HD DVD capture

The guy who posted these still doesn't like it though, because of the grain, etc. I will make my own judgement once I receive my discs. (They shipped today, with my copy of Blade Runner and District B13.)

[icruise]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Go HDDVD!

<SNIP>

Anyway, my HD-A3 HDDVD player is so freaking buggy. It's 3rd generation for Christ sake. Everytime I put in a new HDDVD movie, I pray that I able to play the whole movie without running into problems like freezing and error codes. Fast forwarding is worst than DVDs. No stop and resume later, have to bookmark. Tons of minor annoyances.

Interesting...

[Eug]

So, I saw A Christmas Story on HD DVD.



Well, while I laughed in a few scenes, I thought overall the movie was quite boring, although my GF thought it was quite cute. The image quality varied. None of the scenes were super detailed, and while some scenes still looked very good, other scenes didn't. It didn't seem like it was the transfer though. I attribute this to the original source material. I don't think the original intent was for that look. It just turned out that way because of the low budget and the old and mediocre print.

(This is in contrast to the Battlestar Galactica series, which - excluding the mini-series - was shot in high quality HD video, but then had tons of grain and contrast added for artistic reasons.)

For a Christmas HD DVD, what I would really love to see is a remastered A Christmas Carol, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

[Lateralus]

Quick off-topic question.

I recently picked up a nice Up-Conversion DVD player and I'm about to snag an HDTV.

Regarding audio and HDMI; Would it be better to rely on the HDMI cable for both my audio and video or better to go with RCA for my audio?

The system being connected to the TV is this, BTW. Nothing fancy. Just a nice 2.1 system.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Quick off-topic question.

I recently picked up a nice Up-Conversion DVD player and I'm about to snag an HDTV.

Regarding audio and HDMI; Would it be better to rely on the HDMI cable for both my audio and video or better to go with RCA for my audio?

The system being connected to the TV is this, BTW. Nothing fancy. Just a nice 2.1 system.

For 2.1 it doesn't matter so much, but HDMI would carry a digital audio signal.

[climber]

The biggest advantage to using an HDMI cable for you is the simplicity of it. One cable carries top notch video and audio. To do the same job with RCA would require 5 separate cables. Three for the component video signal plus two for the audio.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Grain is very evident, as are the extreme changes in contrast, but nonetheless the HD DVD is apparently a huge improvement over the DVD:

DVD capture
HD DVD capture

The guy who posted these still doesn't like it though, because of the grain, etc. I will make my own judgement once I receive my discs. (They shipped today, with my copy of Blade Runner and District B13.)

Wow, that looks fantastic, and it's because you CAN see the grain! How the heck is grain supposed to be a bad effect of HDDVD???? Grain something that directors either try to eliminate or exaggerate when shooting on film, but it's has nothing to do with the HD transfer. That looks so good that if the last season of Battlestar is any good maybe I'll complete my collection in HD instead of stopping at season 2 as was my original plan after seeing how bad season 3 sucked.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Wow, that looks fantastic, and it's because you CAN see the grain! How the heck is grain supposed to be a bad effect of HDDVD???? Grain something that directors either try to eliminate or exaggerate when shooting on film, but it's has nothing to do with the HD transfer. That looks so good that if the last season of Battlestar is any good maybe I'll complete my collection in HD instead of stopping at season 2 as was my original plan after seeing how bad season 3 sucked.

I happen to agree with you. I'm just relaying what the guy said.

However, that said, I thought Ocean's Thirteen's image sucked. The HD DVD was faithful to the original intent, but that didn't change my opinion of it. I hated the original intent. Scenes were often very, very grainy, sometimes blurry, and sometimes just completely off-colour, on purpose. While it was supposed to be that way, I didn't think it added anything to the movie... and I didn't like the content of the movie either. The only reason I own Ocean's Thirteen is because it was given to me.

While I didn't feel that way about BSG, I guess the guy who posted the pics felt a bit like that.

BTW, some more BSG screen grabs:

DVD - Simon Fraser U. grounds <-- Grain not maintained, blurry, and lots of edge enhancement. ie. YUCK!
HD DVD - Simon Fraser U. grounds <-- Not super sharp, but much sharper than DVD, and grain is maintained. No edge enhancement. ie. Huge improvement.

DVD outer space
HD DVD outer space

Note that the grainy contrasty effect supposedly gets muted as the first season progresses. If true, it would seem that the guys who did the show thought they overdid those effects at the beginning. So even they weren't totally happy with it and decided to tone it down later. Note also that the original mini-series was shot on film, while the series itself was shot on HD video, so the look of the mini-series and season 1 will be different.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Ya well think back how you and everyone was commenting on how bad BSG looks on DVD. I sure as hell hope HD-DVD is a slight improvement.

Those screenshots you posted of the HD-DVD definitely look worse then when I saw it broadcasted on HDTV and I still have it saved as reference.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So, I saw A Christmas Story on HD DVD.

Well, while I laughed in a few scenes, I thought overall the movie was quite boring, although my GF thought it was quite cute.

If you didn't see it as a kid it won't really do much for you.
As a side note... the kids teacher is my sisters friends mom and she was 3 months pregnant with him when they filmed it. He was happy to be in the movie as a fetus

Parts of it was also filmed in Toronto and you can see one of the old streetcars pass by in the background when they are buying an Xmas tree.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by climber 

The biggest advantage to using an HDMI cable for you is the simplicity of it. One cable carries top notch video and audio. To do the same job with RCA would require 5 separate cables. Three for the component video signal plus two for the audio.

Originally Posted by goMac 

For 2.1 it doesn't matter so much, but HDMI would carry a digital audio signal.

Thanks guys.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Thanks guys.

That'll be $39.95 for the consultation.

[Lateralus]

Moderators pay for nothing. Hell, I should start demanding my law enforcement discount at fast food places

[ort888]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

If you didn't see it as a kid it won't really do much for you.
As a side note... the kids teacher is my sisters friends mom and she was 3 months pregnant with him when they filmed it. He was happy to be in the movie as a fetus

Parts of it was also filmed in Toronto and you can see one of the old streetcars pass by in the background when they are buying an Xmas tree.

I don't understand how you made it your entire life without seeing it. It's on TV, ALL THE TIME. Like seriously, I think it's on every other day in the month of December and has been for about 20 years. Hell, there is a channel that shows it for 24 hours straight on Xmas every year.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Moderators pay for nothing.

This is why you people are reviled. You contribute nothing and suck away on the teet of the community. I loathe you all.
Happy Holidays

[powerbook867]

To add to more of the "off topicness", please don't spend 50 dollars on an HDMI cable.

My 10 dollar fleabay cable works great. There was an article on engadget yesterday about Circuit City ripping off consumers by demoing 2 tv's, one with HDMI Monster cables and one with component....Guess what one looked better?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by powerbook867 

To add to more of the "off topicness", please don't spend 50 dollars on an HDMI cable.

My 10 dollar fleabay cable works great. There was an article on engadget yesterday about Circuit City ripping off consumers by demoing 2 tv's, one with HDMI Monster cables and one with component....Guess what one looked better?

The Apple Store has pretty good prices on any sort of HDMI cable. HDMI to HDMI, HDMI to DVI, both $20.

[ort888]

monoprice.com

Best place for cables. You can HDMI cables for $4 bucks.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...mp;cp_id=10240

[Lateralus]

I try to buy just about everything from NewEgg. If only they sold groceries...

They've got a 7ft HDMI cable for $6.99 and a 10ft for $7.99.

I figured beating either price by a significant amount elsewhere wouldn't be worth the effort.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by ort888 

monoprice.com

Best place for cables. You can HDMI cables for $4 bucks.

MonoPrice.com - Best quality products at the lowest price

Seconded. I just got a 6ft cable from them yesterday for $4.50, and an HDMI-DVI 6ft for $6.

Also if any of you Xbox360 people don't have an HD-DVD addon yet. Amazon has a one day sale and is offering the entire Bourne Trilogy for free.

Bourne Trilogy Free With Xbox 360 HD DVD Player | High-Def Digest

[cjrivera]

Originally Posted by ort888 

monoprice.com

Best place for cables. You can HDMI cables for $4 bucks.

MonoPrice.com - Best quality products at the lowest price

another vote for monoprice... excellent quality cables for very inexpensive prices.
I used them for all the cabling when I had my basement done.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya well think back how you and everyone was commenting on how bad BSG looks on DVD. I sure as hell hope HD-DVD is a slight improvement.

Those screenshots you posted of the HD-DVD definitely look worse then when I saw it broadcasted on HDTV and I still have it saved as reference.

Nothing beats A/B comparisons... The guy also posted screengrabs from Universal's HDTV channel. The HD DVD clearly has much more detail. Maybe the reason you like the broadcast version is because they filtered out much of the intended grain for the broadcast version.


Universal's MPEG2 broadcast HD:



Look at the jacket on the kid at the left, and at the flower bouquet in the middle. They're much clearer in the HD DVD below.
Also note the compression noise around the people in the MPEG2 broadcast image above. It's gone in the HD DVD below.

HD DVD:



And for completeness' sake, here is the DVD:



There is no question at all... The HD DVD version is the best by far. The DVD isn't in the same league obviously, but the HD DVD is still quite a noticeable improvement over Universal's HD MPEG2 broadcast version.

[goMac]

Yep, HD-DVD version looks better.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Microsoft's Xbox 360 HD DVD player: 269000 sold - Engadget HD