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goMac · Dec 19, 2007, 02:49 AM

So I went through my DVD collection (which I buy with no regard to the format war) and figured out what percentage of my collection is made by each studio (with studios lumped into their parent studios). It broke down to:

New Line - 11%
20th Century Fox - 16%
Universal - 16%
Disney - 5%
Warner Brothers - 22%
Sony - 16%
Paramount - 11%

(This won't add to 100 due to rounding)

(To make things a little more fair I counted all TV series I own as one title, even if I have multiple seasons.)

This breaks down to:
33% of my collection is neutral
27% is HD-DVD exclusive
37% is Bluray exclusive

So obviously if Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive a majority of my collection sits in the HD-DVD camp (although right now neither camp controls a majority of my collection.)

If I trim it down to the movies I really honestly do care about, the breakdown becomes:

New Line - 15%
20th Century Fox - 15%
Universal - 23%
Disney - 7%
Sony - 7%
Warner Brothers - 23%
Paramount - 7%

Which turns into:
Neutral - 38%
HD-DVD - 30%
Bluray - 29%

Again, neither format controls a majority of my collection, and as far as titles go, for me the advantage would seem to go to whichever camp gets Warner.

Eug · Dec 19, 2007, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Ya well think back how you and everyone was commenting on how bad BSG looks on DVD. I sure as hell hope HD-DVD is a slight improvement.

Those screenshots you posted of the HD-DVD definitely look worse then when I saw it broadcasted on HDTV and I still have it saved as reference.

Originally Posted by Eug

Nothing beats A/B comparisons... The guy also posted screengrabs from Universal's HDTV channel. The HD DVD clearly has much more detail. Maybe the reason you like the broadcast version is because they filtered out much of the intended grain for the broadcast version.

-- snip--

ort888 · Dec 19, 2007, 10:16 AM

Well, the transfer on the new Bladerunner set is supposed to be absolutely amazing. I can't wait.

A movie I actually love is coming to hi-def! It's amazing!

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 19, 2007, 12:40 PM

Why the hell are these stand alone players so damn slow. I rather pay more not to have to wait a minute for a disk to load:

"HD DVD has the most polished user experience when it comes to HD movies, but the one thing that is still a real drag is the startup and loading times. We've almost forgot how fast DVD can be. We're glad the A30 (and the latest firmware version of the A20) turns on when you hit the eject button, but what could possibly be going on in there for a minute and five seconds while we wait for the tray to come out? This seems like a lifetime while standing in front of the player and is way longer than the fifteen seconds the Samsung's BD-P1200 takes to do the same thing. The good news is that the disc is actually loaded in about half the time that the P1200 takes, as The Borne Identity took about 25 seconds to load on the A30, while the P1200 took 50 seconds to load Home of the Brave. The problem is no doubt related to boot times, as starting the players with a disc in yields similar results: the A30 finishes loading in about one minute and thirty seconds, while the P1200 takes one minute."

Toshiba HD-A30 review - Engadget HD

ort888 · Dec 19, 2007, 12:45 PM

Yeah, it really is ridiculous.

My HD-A2 takes about 30-40 seconds to turn on. It feels like an eternity. Especially when you have a room full of people who want to watch something.

The disc eject doesn't even work during the startup cycle, which is also ridiculous.

Eug · Dec 19, 2007, 12:52 PM

Yeah, hi-def standalones are very slow too boot up. (This is true on both formats as I understand it.) The PS3 and Xbox 360 are the fastest players.

What some people do is just leave the standalones on all the time. It's not the disc loading per se, it's the machine bootup that takes the bulk of the time, so leaving the standalone on all the time cuts 30 s or whatever off the initial time to movie startup.

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 19, 2007, 01:29 PM

I know the PS3 is totally overpowered for BR but its start up time is under 10 seconds and a BR disks takes only a few more seconds to fire up.

To me that is worth paying more for. I mean a MINUTE or more to play a disk?!!

Eug · Dec 19, 2007, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I know the PS3 is totally overpowered for BR but its start up time is under 10 seconds and a BR disks takes only a few more seconds to fire up.

To me that is worth paying more for. I mean a MINUTE or more to play a disk?!!

That's why people leave their standalones on, so they don't have to wait that long.

For instance, for my A2, the boot time is 27.5 seconds from power on until I get the first "HD DVD" logo on the screen, and then another 14 seconds before the disc starts to play, so total is 42 seconds.

If the machine is on with no disc, it takes over 20 seconds for playback to start from the time you press the close button. (This includes the few seconds for the tray door to close.)

If the disc is already loaded in the machine, with the machine on but stopped, it takes less than 5 seconds for playback to start.

hyteckit · Dec 19, 2007, 06:34 PM

The boot up and load times aren't that bad. It would be nice if it is faster.

My A3 takes about 30 secs to boot up and about 40 secs to load a disc. Depending on the disc. However, once I turn off the player, and turn it back on later, the disc loads up in seconds. Must be the persistent storage or something.

hyteckit · Dec 19, 2007, 06:37 PM

About Battlestar Galatica. Looks like they shot it with bad lighting.

The HD-DVD version should have went with the UHD route and apply some filters to it to get rid of the noise, even at the expense of losing some details. The noise becomes too much of a distraction for most viewers.

Eug · Dec 19, 2007, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

The boot up and load times aren't that bad. It would be nice if it is faster.

My A3 takes about 40 secs to boot up and about 30 secs to load a disc. Depending on the disc. However, once I turn off the player, and turn it back on later, the disc loads up in seconds. Must be the persistent storage or something.

Your times will probably get faster too. The A2 is significantly faster than the A3, but when the A2 first came out it was slower than it is now. The firmware updates have helped speed it up.

However, the point here is that both Blu-ray and HD DVD standalones are slow. If you want a fast player, you get a console. The problem is most people don't want a console as their primary disc player.

Originally Posted by hyteckit

About Battlestar Galatica. Looks like they shot it with bad lighting.

The HD-DVD version should have went with the UHD route and apply some filters to it to get rid of the noise, even at the expense of losing some details. The noise becomes too much of a distraction for most viewers.

Actually, aside from the mini-series, BSG was shot on high-definition video. It was basically grainless, and then they added the grain afterwards in post-production.

Eug · Dec 19, 2007, 07:02 PM

Weird: Bourne and PotC 3 both outsell Harry Potter

On the HD DVD chart, "Bourne" outsold "Potter" by a margin of nearly 2-to-1. On the Blu-ray Disc chart, "Pirates" remained in the top sales spot for the second week, with newcomer "Potter" debuting at No. 2.

jokell82 · Dec 19, 2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I know the PS3 is totally overpowered for BR but its start up time is under 10 seconds and a BR disks takes only a few more seconds to fire up.

To me that is worth paying more for. I mean a MINUTE or more to play a disk?!!

You know, if you step back and think about it, this is the most ridiculous complaint ever. A minute is such a small amount of time, but when you're used to instant-on it feels like an eternity.

(I hate the load times too)

mrtew · Dec 19, 2007, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

You know, if you step back and think about it, this is the most ridiculous complaint ever. A minute is such a small amount of time, but when you're used to instant-on it feels like an eternity.

I'm old enough to remember when TV's took what seemed like 5 minutes to 'warm up' and THAT really was an eternity because there were no VCRs back then and the show was actually starting and you were actually missing the beginning while staring at a black screen screaming at it to just come on already!

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 12:43 AM

Interesting week. 61:39 BD:HD. (I had predicted 58:42.)

1) Bourne Ultimatum HD
2) Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
3) Harry Potter BD
4) Harry Potter HD

Bourne vs PotC 3 - 1.5 : 1
Potter BD vs Potter HD - 1.2 : 1
Planet Earth BD vs HD - 1 : 1.8 <-- Planet Earth on HD tops 100000 units. Expected to top 100000 units on BD mid-January.

Record volumes on both formats.

goMac · Dec 20, 2007, 01:20 AM

Ahem

Originally Posted by Eug

I predict a sales ratio close to 2:1 BD:HD.

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm not so sure, I think it will be closer than that. Harry Potter seems like the movie that people will be buying with their standalone HD-DVD players for Christmas.

Originally Posted by Eug

Well, 1.5 : 1 is possible too, but I wouldn't count on it.

Originally Posted by Eug

Potter BD vs Potter HD - 1.2 : 1

Just teasing you.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 01:30 AM

Yeah, by the end of it, overall I was expecting a 1.7:1 ratio for Harry Potter BD:HD. 1.2:1 is quite a surprise to me.

P.S. I'm shocked that Planet Earth continues to do so well, esp. on HD.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 01:53 AM

All of sudden, PiP is a great feature on Blu-ray.

"Needless to say, the feature is beautiful and worked flawlessly and provides a unique experience for those looking for a bit more about their favorite movies."

Well, I agree. Yes, PiP is indeed great.

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 20, 2007, 01:54 AM

Why aren't those stand alone players eating up Potter as predicted?!

Interesting that a 2 week title still beat Potter also.

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 20, 2007, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Well, I agree. Yes, PiP is indeed great.

It was also great when it worked a YEAR ago on BR disks but not "true" because it wasn't in Java which makes all the diff.

BR is not getting PiP. They are getting "True PiP" which looks exactly the same in the end to the consumer as it did a year ago.

It feels great to be part of the "True" club though

hyteckit · Dec 20, 2007, 02:01 AM

Damn, I just bought two more HDDVDs.

Bestbuy is having a sale on both HDDVD and Bluray. Buy one get one free.

Guess what I got?

Of course Bourne Ultimatum and Harry Potter. $32.99 for two movies. Cheaper than the DVD of those movies. Haha..

Already have Transformers and The Departed, so didn't get those. Damn, even when my HDDVD player is so buggy, I'm already building a big collection of HDDVDs.

hyteckit · Dec 20, 2007, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

All of sudden, PiP is a great feature on Blu-ray.

"Needless to say, the feature is beautiful and worked flawlessly and provides a unique experience for those looking for a bit more about their favorite movies."

Well, I agree. Yes, PiP is indeed great.

Yup, PIP is really nice. I have the movie 300 which came with my A3. Enjoy watching the actual movie with the blue screen pre-production version in the PIP. I think the PIP is exclusive the HDDVD and not available on Bluray version.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 02:07 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

It was also great when it worked a YEAR ago on BR disks but not "true" because it wasn't in Java which makes all the diff.

BR is not getting PiP. They are getting "True PiP" which looks exactly the same in the end to the consumer as it did a year ago.

It feels great to be part of the "True" club though

Fake PiP is annoying. It doesn't look anything like this.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Why aren't those stand alone players eating up Potter as predicted?!

Hmmm... Those measly few dedicated HD DVD players meant a 1.2 BD : 1.0 HD ratio for Potter disc sales, despite the bazillion PS3s out there that you always like talking about.

And overall, the ratio remains at 1.56 : 1 - still a stalemate, even in the face of record BD sales this week.

hyteckit · Dec 20, 2007, 02:13 AM

I don't know how they got PiP for star trek to be so fluid. I'm pleasantly surprise.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 11:41 AM

Warner screwed up some copies of the Blu-ray Blade Runner release.

'Blade Runner' Blu-ray Suffers Manufacturing Glitch

Unfortunately, some Blu-ray fans popping in the set's fifth disc (which is meant to contain the workprint) are instead finding a mislabeled duplicate of the first disc, containing the film's final cut.

No reports of glitches on the HD DVD version yet.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 01:30 PM

I suspect this means that Warner is staying format neutral for the time being:

This confirms they are definitely not going Blu-ray-exclusive at CES.
However, I also think it's unlikely they'll go HD DVD-exclusive either at this time.

goMac · 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

This confirms they are definitely not going Blu-ray-exclusive at CES.
However, I also think it's unlikely they'll go HD DVD-exclusive either at this time.

The only people who ever thought they'd go Bluray exclusive were the complete Bluray fanboys. Warner doesn't even do their Bluray discs in house (HD-DVD is done in house.) It would be crazy to think they'd move to Bluray only this year.

mrtew · Dec 20, 2007, 03:04 PM

Has anyone ever suspected that this whole 'war' is not an accidental misfortune that has befallen the movie industry and the disc-buying public, but has for some reason been staged. When I see the how similar the packaging looks for both versions I just get the feeling that it's been somehow 'staged'. I have no idea why they'd want to make it look like a competition when it's really a collaboration, but having the exact same product available in either red or blue flavors just seems a little weird. (Maybe I've been watching the political coverage too much but I even wonder sometimes if the Blu-rays sell better to the liberals and the HD DVDs to the conservatives.)

icruise · Dec 20, 2007, 04:07 PM

According to IMDB, they are distributing free replacements for those Pirates of the Caribbean BR discs that had framing problems. I haven't even opened mine yet, but I will be calling when I get a chance.

'Pirates' Recall
In what amounts to a recall of its high-definition Blu-ray edition of Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Disney has informed purchasers that it will replace the discs with ones that correct a framing problem. The website High-Def Disc News reported that the framing problems "wreaked havoc with the film's intended compositions." According to the website, replacements have been pressed and will be shipped free to consumers requesting them within two business days. Those wishing replacements were advised to call Disney's customer service line at 800-723-4763.

icruise · Dec 20, 2007, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by mrtew

Has anyone ever suspected that this whole 'war' is not an accidental misfortune that has befallen the movie industry and the disc-buying public, but has for some reason been staged. When I see the how similar the packaging looks for both versions I just get the feeling that it's been somehow 'staged'. I have no idea why they'd want to make it look like a competition when it's really a collaboration, but having the exact same product available in either red or blue flavors just seems a little weird. (Maybe I've been watching the political coverage too much but I even wonder sometimes if the Blu-rays sell better to the liberals and the HD DVDs to the conservatives.)

I brought up the similarity in packaging quite a while ago, and I don't think I got any satisfactory answer. My theory is that they decided to go with similar packaging so they could make us of the same display areas and such. But to say that it's all a plot makes little sense. The format war isn't helping anybody as far as I can tell.

olePigeon · Dec 20, 2007, 04:11 PM

Has HD-DVD had any problems with framing, features not working on other players, mislabeled discs, etc?

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Has HD-DVD had any problems with framing, features not working on other players, mislabeled discs, etc?

Some combo discs have had disc reliability problems in some batches. Players have needed firmware updates for compatibility issues too.

Originally Posted by mrtew

Has anyone ever suspected that this whole 'war' is not an accidental misfortune that has befallen the movie industry and the disc-buying public, but has for some reason been staged.

No.

Shaddim · Dec 20, 2007, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

I brought up the similarity in packaging quite a while ago, and I don't think I got any satisfactory answer. My theory is that they decided to go with similar packaging so they could make us of the same display areas and such. But to say that it's all a plot makes little sense. The format war isn't helping anybody as far as I can tell.

I don't know, I've met several people who have purchased both HD formats of certain movies.

I can't really see why, but it happens.

olePigeon · Dec 20, 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Some combo discs have had disc reliability problems in some batches. Players have needed firmware updates for compatibility issues too.

I know not all Blu-Ray players have serial/ethernet ports. Do the HD-DVD players have the same problems? Also, were the problems remedied by a simple firmware fix? Someone mentioned that not all Blu-Ra players support some features, and that they can't be fixed via a firmware update.

Teronzhul · Dec 20, 2007, 04:46 PM

All HD-DVD players have to have ethernet ports to meet spec. I believe that they also have to have USB ports for external storage. Every HD-DVD player to date can be updated via the internet, or by burning firmware to disc.

Eug · Dec 20, 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I know not all Blu-Ray players have serial/ethernet ports. Do the HD-DVD players have the same problems? Also, were the problems remedied by a simple firmware fix? Someone mentioned that not all Blu-Ra players support some features, and that they can't be fixed via a firmware update.

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

All HD-DVD players have to have ethernet ports to meet spec.

Yes, ALL HD DVD players must have dual video decoders, at least 128 MB persistent storage (flash memory), and an Ethernet jack (not just for firmware updates, but also for web-enabled content).

The first two are included in Blu-ray Profile 1.1, but the last one requires Blu-ray Profile 2.0.

The problem is that most Blu-ray standalones are Profile 1.0, which means they have none of the above, and most can never be updated to support it either, because the physical hardware doesn't exist in the machine.

I believe that they also have to have USB ports for external storage.

That is incorrect. HD DVD players do not have to have USB. And the ones that have it, have no actual use for USB yet.

icruise · Dec 20, 2007, 06:01 PM

Got this today (well, the blaster I got a while ago...)

The movie looks fantastic. I've been a fan of this film since I first saw it years ago, and I've owned it on VHS, laserdisc (the criterion collection version), and DVD, but it's (obviously) never looked anywhere near this good, even in the theater. I checked my fifth disc, and it's the work print as it should be. I only had time to watch about half an hour of the movie, but I'm suitably impressed.

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 21, 2007, 11:27 AM

Another day, another chimp working at Warner:
Warner Confirms 'T3' Blu-ray Problems; Replacement Program Expected | High-Def Digest

goMac · Dec 21, 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Another day, another chimp working at Warner:
Warner Confirms 'T3' Blu-ray Problems; Replacement Program Expected | High-Def Digest

Are you sure you guys want Warner?

exca1ibur · Dec 21, 2007, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Are you sure you guys want Warner?

The only people who ever thought they'd go Bluray exclusive were the complete Bluray fanboys. Warner doesn't even do their Bluray discs in house (HD-DVD is done in house.) It would be crazy to think they'd move to Bluray only this year.

Hmmm?

goMac · Dec 21, 2007, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Hmmm?

Warner doesn't do their disk authoring in house. They still produce the actual Bluray discs and packaging, and they also do the encode.

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 21, 2007, 02:31 PM

Here is the most shocking news I have heard in a long time and is sure to send GoMac back to the drawing board on the importance of HD on the Wii and BR usage on the PS3.

" According to new data from Nielsen Research Group, 71-percent of all PlayStation 3 consoles are connected to some form of HDTV (either LCD, plasma or front / rear projection), while 66-percent of Xbox 360s and 65-percent of Wiis were found to be played on a high-definition set."

So first off 71% of PS3 owners are connected to an HDTV and some of you actually think only a tiny persentage are using BR or even know about HD?

Even more shocking to me is that 65% of Wii owners are hooked up to an HDTV? That is astouding as the excuse for not having HD on the wii was that they were being hooked up to SD sets as HD wasn't widespread.

Stats: The PS3 Dominates HD Usage, Gamers Love Home Theaters

exca1ibur · 02:35 PM

"According to the latest Nielson statistics, the PS3 is the king of HD. Why? Statistics show that 71% of PlayStation 3 owners hook their systems to an HDTV..."

Source

I was always curious on what the break down was.

[EDIT: Damn. He got me by 1 min.]

Eug · Dec 21, 2007, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Even more shocking to me is that 65% of Wii owners are hooked up to an HDTV? That is astouding as the excuse for not having HD on the wii was that they were being hooked up to SD sets as HD wasn't widespread.

I'm not sure who you're attributing that to, but IMO the #1 reason for the Wii not having HD support is console cost.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 21, 2007, 02:41 PM

I figured it was Nintendo's lack of foresight.

goMac · Dec 21, 2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

So first off 71% of PS3 owners are connected to an HDTV and some of you actually think only a tiny persentage are using BR or even know about HD?

So you're willing to cite surveys about how many people with PS3's have an HDTV, but not cite surveys about how many PS3's owners know about the Bluray drive? Right. Not fanboyish at all.

A lot of people have HDTV's these days. My grandparents have one actually, and that says a lot.

goMac · Dec 21, 2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

I'm not sure who you're attributing that to, but IMO the #1 reason for the Wii not having HD support is console cost.

One would have to assume that people who are more likely to buy a PS3 already have an HDTV. The Wii is targeted at a lot larger of a market, and it's reflected in the sales numbers.

ort888 · Dec 21, 2007, 03:05 PM

Console cost my ass.

The original Xbox could do 720p, had 5.1 sound and a hard drive... and it sold for $149 in 2004.

icruise · Dec 21, 2007, 03:12 PM

Well, the original Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion in the first 4 years. That doesn't exactly jibe with Nintendo's business model.

Eug · Dec 21, 2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

I figured it was Nintendo's lack of foresight.

Yeah, that must be it, considering they're leading in the console wars, and are actually profitable.

Originally Posted by icruise

Well, the original Xbox lost Microsoft $4 billion in the first 4 years. That doesn't exactly jibe with Nintendo's business model.

Indeed.