[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Why would you assume that? Microsoft hasn't said they will use it, but they certainly haven't said they won't. If Microsoft decided to start including stuff like extras, HDi would certainly be the most practical way to do it. Not to mention, Microsoft already has the rights to use the format. It's a far more logical assumption that the would use tech that they already have the rights for instead of going back to the drawing board and coming up with something new.

Why would I assume that?

1) Because they have not said they'd use it for anything other than HD DVD, which makes sense since it was built for HD DVD.
2) HDi is not necessarily the most practical way to do it. Once you're dealing with Windows PCs, you have many more options.
3) There are no plans for significant extras any time soon for digital downloads.

ie. If HDi ever gets used for this purpose, it won't be before 2010.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

1) Because they have not said they'd use it for anything other than HD DVD, which makes sense since it was built for HD DVD.

But this isn't true. HDi was not specifically built for HD-DVD.

Originally Posted by Eug 

2) HDi is not necessarily the most practical way to do it. Once you're dealing with Windows PCs, you have many more options.

Such as....? Again, because Microsoft already has rights to HDi, why would they go out and license or build an entirely new format?

Originally Posted by Eug 

3) There are no plans for significant extras any time soon for digital downloads.

ie. If HDi ever gets used for this purpose, it won't be before 2010.

Again, for the XBox 360, adding HDi to marketplace downloads would make a lot of sense. It would put marketplace movies on par with their DVD counterparts, and the XBox 360 already supports HDi. It would be a pretty simple update, certainly not something that would take until 2010 to accomplish.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

But this isn't true. HDi was not specifically built for HD-DVD.

It wasn't built to exclude usage on anything else, and actually both Toshiba and MS would like to see it go beyond HD DVD eventually, but the reason HDi exists was specifically for HD DVD.

Such as....? Again, because Microsoft already has rights to HDi, why would they go out and license or build an entirely new format?

Are you sure it would cost them nothing? The spec belongs to the DVD Forum, and I believe it would include IP from both Toshiba and MS (although mostly MS).

Again, for the XBox 360, adding HDi to marketplace downloads would make a lot of sense. It would put marketplace movies on par with their DVD counterparts, and the XBox 360 already supports HDi. It would be a pretty simple update, certainly not something that would take until 2010 to accomplish.

They're having enough problems as it is with just plain-Jane 720p downloads. Do you seriously expect them to have full-fledged HD DVD like downloads any time soon?

Judging by what MS people have said in the past, this type of thing would not be a simple update at all... if you're talking about real-world implementation.

You're not going to see anything like HD DVD for Xbox 360 downloads any time soon. And even if you did (in 2010), having it on the Xbox 360 is at best a small first step, since the real market is on Windows PCs.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by icruise 

This brings up an interesting question. Who is it that is determining which titles go on sale? I don't think it's the retailers.

If you are selling at $10 to $15 per HDDVD/Bluray, you are losing money on every sale unless the studios are compensating for it.

For smaller retailers, any BOGO sale would probably be the retailer's idea and isn't compensated by the studios. The smaller retailers are willing to sell at a lost to gain customers and generate more traffic to their store or website.

For larger retailers such as BestBuy and Amazon, there is no reason those stores to sell the hidef movies at a lost in order to gain more customers or increase their store presence. So for stores such as Amazon who has such a large online presence, many companies who are looking to sell their products actually pay or compensate Amazon.

Therefore, BOGO sales on Hidef movies on Amazon, it is most likely compensated by the studios.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It wasn't built to exclude usage on anything else, and actually both Toshiba and MS would like to see it go beyond HD DVD eventually, but the reason HDi exists was specifically for HD DVD.

I'm not so sure about that. I think that HDi was designed semi-independently from HD-DVD.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Are you sure it would cost them nothing? The spec belongs to the DVD Forum, and I believe it would include IP from both Toshiba and MS (although mostly MS).

Given that they've already licensed the tech for the XBox...

Originally Posted by Eug 

They're having enough problems as it is with just plain-Jane 720p downloads. Do you seriously expect them to have full-fledged HD DVD like downloads any time soon?

Why not? The HDi files are pretty small. All we'd really be talking about is adding a few more video tracks.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Judging by what MS people have said in the past, this type of thing would not be a simple update at all... if you're talking about real-world implementation.

Real world implementation that is already done.

Originally Posted by Eug 

You're not going to see anything like HD DVD for Xbox 360 downloads any time soon. And even if you did (in 2010), having it on the Xbox 360 is at best a small first step, since the real market is on Windows PCs.

Why do you say that? The XBox 360 would be a huge first step. Watching movies on a Windows PC is going to be a niche market vs. watching movies on an XBox on a nice large TV. I think devices like the XBox or AppleTV are going to be the new entry point for media in the home.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

AppleInsider | Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-ray support - report

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

AppleInsider | Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-ray support - report

I'm hoping they do combo drives, it would be cheap enough. Apple would shoot themselves in the foot by picking a side at this point.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm not so sure about that. I think that HDi was designed semi-independently from HD-DVD.

To be accurate, you're right in a sense. It was not just designed for HD DVD, but for Blu-ray as well. HD DVD adopted it. Blu-ray didn't. The goal was to create software that could be implemented on a standalone platform without creating a huge amount of bloat.

Why not? The HDi files are pretty small. All we'd really be talking about is adding a few more video tracks.

Exactly. Bandwidth...

Real world implementation that is already done.

There is no support for this on the Xbox 360 Dashboard.

Remember, the HD DVD code is independent of the Dashboard's. This is by design. You can update the HD DVD software without affecting the Dashboard.

Why do you say that? The XBox 360 would be a huge first step. Watching movies on a Windows PC is going to be a niche market vs. watching movies on an XBox on a nice large TV. I think devices like the XBox or AppleTV are going to be the new entry point for media in the home.

The Xbox 360 is not going to revolutionize the living room. Neither is the PS3 for that matter. AppleTV is trying, but so far is failing. But that's irrelevant to the HDi discussion, because AppleTV isn't going to implement that.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

AppleInsider | Apple set to ship Macs with Blu-ray support - report

According to an Analyst? Apple is going to promote movies available for rental. Why take the spotlight away from that by releasing Macs with Bluray?

Macworld is only days away.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm hoping they do combo drives, it would be cheap enough. Apple would shoot themselves in the foot by picking a side at this point.

Well as they story mentions Jobs is on the Disney Board and they are BR exclusive and I can't see Apple pushing HD to help out their buddies at MS.

Are there even affordable combo burners on the market? The only thing I have seen is $400 BR burners.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

According to an Analyst? Apple is going to promote movies available for rental. Why take the spotlight away from that by releasing Macs with Bluray?

Macworld is only days away.

Blu-ray (or HD DVD) would only be on pro Macs at this time. Why have it? Cuz, well... Pro Macs are actually used for hi-def video. Furthermore, Leopard already natively supports the disc format that commercial Blu-ray and HD DVD use. (Tiger didn't.)

Offering Blu-ray and/or HD DVD is a logical progression for pro Macs... and one that should probably have happened in 2007.

Note though, I have not yet seen a 9.5 mm slot-load Blu-ray or HD DVD drive. A tray load version exists, but Mac laptops don't use tray load drives. So either Panasonic and friends are waiting for Macworld before they announce slot-load versions, or we won't be getting laptops with these. The tower Macs are good to go though.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Ya they are not going to be in laptops for a while but they are down to 9.5mm for desktops:
Panasonic whittles thinnest Blu-ray drive for laptops down to 9.5mm - Engadget

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm hoping they do combo drives, it would be cheap enough. Apple would shoot themselves in the foot by picking a side at this point.

Why? Will rapid HD DVD fanboys suddenly swear off buying a Mac forever because Apple went Blu? What's the alternative? I suppose they could always pick up a Toshiba notebook.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Ya they are not going to be in laptops for a while but they are down to 9.5mm for desktops:
Panasonic whittles thinnest Blu-ray drive for laptops down to 9.5mm - Engadget

? That's what I was getting at. That's a laptop drive... just not one for Mac laptops. It's always possible there is a slot-load version already available but that Panasonic (or whomever) is just holding off announcing it until Steve does first. I was just point out that nobody has announced one yet.

Mac desktops would use either a slot-load thin drive (iMac, eventually) or else a half-height desktop drive (Mac Pro), so that drive you linked isn't going to be used in Mac desktops either.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Blu-ray (or HD DVD) would only be on pro Macs at this time. Why have it? Cuz, well... Pro Macs are actually used for hi-def video. Furthermore, Leopard already natively supports the disc format that commercial Blu-ray and HD DVD use. (Tiger didn't.)

Offering Blu-ray and/or HD DVD is a logical progression for pro Macs... and one that should probably have happened in 2007.

Note though, I have not yet seen a 9.5 mm slot-load Blu-ray or HD DVD drive. A tray load version exists, but Mac laptops don't use tray load drives. So either Panasonic and friends are waiting for Macworld before they announce slot-load versions, or we won't be getting laptops with these. The tower Macs are good to go though.

Sure, but that wasn't my question. Why announce support for Bluray during MacWorld and have it steal some of the spotlight from movie rentals in iTunes.

What if you don't want a Bluray drive? What if you don't want a HDDVD drive? I would guess a BTO is a better choice. You can select either a Bluray or HDDVD drive depending on your needs.

[ort888]