[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Your are kidding me right? You are basing HDDVD returns on Disney movies?

You think 1 week after Christmas is enough to determine if all those HDDVD players sold during the holiday season would translate to HDDVD movies sales? Wow, I'm glad you are not in marketing.

Disney movies are really big with families with small children. Add in Buena Vista/Touchstone movies (Gone in 60 Seconds, Pirates of the Carribean series, Invisible etc...) plus the Sony and Fox exclusives and you have a lot of movies that appeal to teens and young adults with spendable cash.

Ultimately though, this has been a whole year in the making. Every week in the US was won by Blu-ray and Blu-ray is leading in Europe by a 3:1 margin, Japan by a 9:1 margin an Australia by a 4:1 margin.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

shaddim
combo players have come along way since the LD/DVD combos my friend. trust me on this!

Well, after $1200 for the player and ~$600 in shipping and repairs, I'd had enough. I ran into an incredible deal on a Pioneer HLD-X9 and never looked back.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Disney movies are really big with families with small children. Add in Buena Vista/Touchstone movies (Gone in 60 Seconds, Pirates of the Carribean series, Invisible etc...) plus the Sony and Fox exclusives and you have a lot of movies that appeal to teens and young adults with spendable cash.

I'm not arguing with you that Disney movies are big. What you are saying is that the mass are going to return their HDDVD players because they are confuse as to why their HDDVD players don't play Disney movies.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Source?

As of the end of November, HD DVD Promo Group: HD DVD Player Sales Top 750,000 | High-Def Digest, with fire sale numbers factored in.

From your link, there is another link.

Report: HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone | High-Def Digest

That's according to a report published late Thursday by Home Media Magazine, which places the current total household penetration for HD DVD standalones at about 420,000 units.

420,000 - 90,000 (sold in first week of Nov) = 330,000 before Nov.

750,000 by the end of Nov.

750,000 - 330,000 = 420,000 during Nov.

So a low low estimate of 80,000 for Dec, gives you 500,000 for Nov and Dec period.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

For me, I refuse to buy any format the binds the media physically to a disc. Media on a disc means that the disc format can be pushed off the market, leaving you unable to play your media. This is actually a perfect example. Once HD-DVD players go off the market, people will no longer be able to play their HD-DVD content.

If managed copy was implemented today, I could go out and buy HD-DVD discs, copy them to my computer, and continue playing them now until the end of time regardless of what happens to HD-DVD. I refuse to buy a format that will just continue the endless cycle of having to buy a new copy of the movie when people decide to change the physical format. If Bluray discs were compatible with managed copy, I would gladly buy Bluray. But Bluray doesn't meet my requirements as a format, so I won't buy it at all.

I don't know where you are getting this information from but your HD DVD discs will continue to play as long as your Toshiba standalone continues to function. Managed copy is no guarantee that you would continue to have access to your media and you would be forced to use windows to access it. What if MSFT disabled the servers that maintained the "keys" for your managed copies, you had a hardware failure and you wanted to create a new "managed" copy?

Blu-ray can be compatible with managed copy but I do not see that as an advantage because of the OS lock-in and the vulnerability of losing access to the managed copies in the future should MSFT decide to shut down the system or if the studio decided to revoke the managed copy system. This will not happen with physical media. The media will continue to work well into the future.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

Because they need to response to a press release by Warner to limit damage.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I'm not arguing with you that Disney movies are big. What you are saying is that the mass are going to return their HDDVD players because they are confuse as to why their HDDVD players don't play Disney movies.

There were numerous stories from Walmart employees commenting on people bringing back the units when they found out that they were not blu-ray compatible and stories of people buying the A2's simply as an upscaling DVD player.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Because they need to response to a press release by Warner to limit damage.

By saying they are going to sue them? How is that going to make any HD owners feel better or push the format?

HD owners gonna get a cut of that lawsuit?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

By saying they are going to sue them? How is that going to make any HD owners feel better or push the format?

HD owners gonna get a cut of that lawsuit?

It only says they were surprise the Warner would abandon HDDVD when there is an existing contract. Seems like a reasonable response to me.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think it really shows sour grapes and unprofessionalism for Toshiba to mention they are looking into lawsuits for this decision. Even if it was true is that really something you need to put in a press release? Send Warner a legal letter when you know if you have a case or not.

****ing jerks.

They're reacting poorly, and it will come back to bite them in the ass.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

I don't know where you are getting this information from but your HD DVD discs will continue to play as long as your Toshiba standalone continues to function.

And then when my standalone dies, where will I be? What if I want to be able to play movies in two parts of the house? Am I to buy a second standalone?

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Managed copy is no guarantee that you would continue to have access to your media and you would be forced to use windows to access it.

Not true.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

What if MSFT disabled the servers that maintained the "keys" for your managed copies, you had a hardware failure and you wanted to create a new "managed" copy?

I only need the key for making the copy. Once it's moved over, I just backup the public key database on my end and never have to talk to anyones servers again.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Blu-ray can be compatible with managed copy but I do not see that as an advantage because of the OS lock-in and the vulnerability of losing access to the managed copies in the future should MSFT decide to shut down the system or if the studio decided to revoke the managed copy system. This will not happen with physical media. The media will continue to work well into the future.

Wait... so... giving me more functionality now is bad in case it breaks later?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

From your link, there is another link.

Report: HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone | High-Def Digest



420,000 - 90,000 (sold in first week of Nov) = 330,000 before Nov.

750,000 by the end of Nov.

750,000 - 330,000 = 420,000 during Nov.

So a low low estimate of 80,000 for Dec, gives you 500,000 for Nov and Dec period.

You're not making sense of the numbers.

In the article HD DVD Standalone Player Sales Nearing 500,000 Milestone, dated Nov. 8, 2007,

Format backers say the total number of standalone HD DVD players sold is poised to hit the 500,000 mark by late November.

This is to mean the total number of standalone players sold since inception was to hit 500,000 by late November. I'll assume this 500,000 units estimate includes the reported 90,000 standalones sold during the A2 fire sale. The estimate does not include, however, the XBox HD DVD add-on. When the XBox add-ons, as well as any sales of standalone players for the month of November, are factored in together, HD DVD can only claim to have sold 750,000 players (standalones and add-ons) since inception!

Per the article dated Nov. 27, 2007, HD DVD Promo Group: HD DVD Player Sales Top 750,000:

A combined total of over 750,000 standalone set-top players and Xbox 360 HD DVD players have now been sold through to consumers.

The difference of 250,000 (or 330,000) units did not magically appear over the rest of November; it simply wasn't factored into the standalone sales estimate in the earlier article and represents add-ons factored in.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

It only says they were surprise the Warner would abandon HDDVD when there is an existing contract. Seems like a reasonable response to me.

Oh what, Toshiba payed them to even be nurtural from the beginning?
Why should they bring that up publicly?

And again, how does "We sue you" make you feel better about your HD-DVD player and want to buy more disks?

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

And then when my standalone dies, where will I be? What if I want to be able to play movies in two parts of the house? Am I to buy a second standalone?

That's what you have to deal with when you buy a Betamaxesqe format. I'm going to have to unload my HD DVD player and 19 movies on e-Bay too. I might keep the Combo discs.

I only need the key for making the copy. Once it's moved over, I just backup the public key database on my end and never have to talk to anyones servers again.

Wait... so... giving me more functionality now is bad in case it breaks later?

Give me a link to where this non-existent managed copy idea from MSFT would work outside of windows. All evidence points to it being windows only since existing "managed" media using MSFT DRM is only accessible on windows. Flip4mac does not support DRM'ed media.

[ort888]

The next big step will be the retail chains.

Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, WalMart, Frys, ect...

All of these guys are being hurt by this format war just as much as anyone else.

I think we'll start seeing HD DVD disappear from their valuable shelfspace very soon.

I think this action by Warner will start a quick chain reaction that will end this fairly quickly.

It's in everyone's best interest at this point.