[moonmonkey]

I have been in Hong Kong for about 8 months, my job (not IT based) involves me meeting a lot of people in their homes, 90% of them affluent expatriates. In the past 6 months at least 30%+ of them have had macs in their homes (90% have iPods), the number of Intel iMacs and Macbooks I see everyday is amazing, lots have PC's but very few have new PC's.

Im not exaggerating, Mac sales are going crazy in Hong Kong, and a large proportion of them are recent switchers, walk into any Apple reseller and the place is full of buyers.

Hong Kong is thought of as a microcosm of modern city, things here happen fast and usually first.

Its all good!

[olePigeon]

Sounds cool. I remember when the original iMac came out, it was the #1 selling PC in Japan for a while. Apple beat out the likes of Dell, HP, et al.

I hope this is a trend we'll see in the rest of the world.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Sounds cool. I remember when the original iMac came out, it was the #1 selling PC in Japan for a while. Apple beat out the likes of Dell, HP, et al.

I hope this is a trend we'll see in the rest of the world.

I don't.

I don't want to see Macs in government run institutions or schools, just a poor use of money IMHO. I'd much rather move towards Linux-based solutions.

I think government will come first (some other governments have already gone this direction). You simply don't need to run Windows to manage paperwork, there is nothing incredibly technologically wonderful going on there - we've been typing up papers for decades. Hopefully Mass moving their documents to the OpenDocument format will be the first sign of this change.

Before you attack me and Linux, keep in mind that my arguments are purely based on dollars and cents, resource allocation, and thrifty spending of tax dollars.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't.

I don't want to see Macs in government run institutions or schools, just a poor use of money IMHO. I'd much rather move towards Linux-based solutions.

I think government will come first (some other governments have already gone this direction). You simply don't need to run Windows to manage paperwork, there is nothing incredibly technologically wonderful going on there - we've been typing up papers for decades. Hopefully Mass moving their documents to the OpenDocument format will be the first sign of this change.

Before you attack me and Linux, keep in mind that my arguments are purely based on dollars and cents, resource allocation, and thrifty spending of tax dollars.

So, you still believe that Macs are more expensive?

[Andy8]

Enjoying Hong Kong i see MoonMonkey :-)

Finally the cooler weather has arrived today! It was the warmest November in 120 years for Hong Kong!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

So, you still believe that Macs are more expensive?

Linux and Windows based appliances are cheaper than Mac appliances, no question.

The costs of running workstations is where there are other variables to bring into question, but there are a lot of machines used in a very appliance-like fashion in these environments that are ripe for being replaced.

I also believe a centrally maintained Linux build that can be pushed out over a large network and maintained by a centralized IT source would be cheaper than a Windows or Mac based solution too.

The information you are probably this on is probably Windows centric, where there are Windows software licenses to factor in. How can the Mac complete with cheap hardware and free software, especially considering that the need for computing power in many of these environments is extremely minimal? Really, typing up papers does not require a computer released even within the last 5 years.

[ironknee]

hong kong has the best food ...mmmmm send pics!

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

I have been in Hong Kong for about 8 months, my job (not IT based) involves me meeting a lot of people in their homes, 90% of them affluent expatriates. In the past 6 months at least 30%+ of them have had macs in their homes (90% have iPods), the number of Intel iMacs and Macbooks I see everyday is amazing, lots have PC's but very few have new PC's.

Im not exaggerating, Mac sales are going crazy in Hong Kong, and a large proportion of them are recent switchers, walk into any Apple reseller and the place is full of buyers.

Hong Kong is thought of as a microcosm of modern city, things here happen fast and usually first.

Its all good!

I believe you 100%, but the section of homes you have sampled is highly biased towards wealthy people. What's the population of affluent expatriates compared to the population of native middle-and-lower class people. Not so rosy now, heh?

P.S. How can I become an affluent expatriate and go to Hong Kong?

[Nicko]

Whats that computer mall called in kowloon? Star city? ---its right by the ferry terminal.

I have never seen so many Apple related stores in one spot anywhere. Totally awsome.

[monkeybrain]

Over here in Taiwan there are hardly any Macs anywhere, ironic considering most were made here or are still made by Taiwanese companies. As far as I can tell, the reason is a lack of commitment and marketing from Apple (something which people can probably attest to in many countries).

[The Internet]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Before you attack me..

attack you besson3c?! don't be silly

[Andy8]

Exactly. Apple do very little to push the brand in Taiwan. Not even an apple online store like we have in Hong Kong.

[Oversoul]

I agree that your sample is a bit skewed towards the affluent end, as affluent Hong Kong residents tend to be really into luxury brands and trends. Most people in HK are also into tech and I've done some of my best tech shopping in and around Kowloon.

I have family living in HK, though not particularly affluent ones. And for most Hong Kong residents like them (and even the wealthier ones), their apartments are small and I wouldn't be surprised if the iMacs and Macbooks appeal to them because of their small form factor. Who has room for a bulky PC and CRT?

[Kenneth]

I was born in Hong Kong. Before I moved to the US in 1996, I have never touched a Macintosh. I learned how to use a Mac in high school and eventually set myself into the Apple camp.

I do have a couple Mac friends form Hong Kong who I talk to on iChat. As a mod. on one of the Hong Kong Mac forum, I see a lot of switchers and new comers on board.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Linux and Windows based appliances are cheaper than Mac appliances, no question.

TCO, dude, TCO.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

TCO, dude, TCO.

-t

I know what TCO is... make your case.

[brokenjago]

The TCO of Macs is no doubt cheaper when you pit it against Windows, but against Linux I'm not so sure. Especially with highly focused and supposedly easy to use Linux Distros such as Ubuntu out and about.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

The TCO of Macs is no doubt cheaper when you pit it against Windows, but against Linux I'm not so sure. Especially with highly focused and supposedly easy to use Linux Distros such as Ubuntu out and about.

But also, don't forget that in an environment where there are tons of "drone" machines, they need to be centrally managed. Nobody wants to walk from workstation to workstation with an OS install CD in hand and make all sorts of manual changes to each machine. This is where a build comes in. Of course, this is no different on the Mac or Windows either, but...

Once a specialized Linux build is developed for government or education, as long as there is a means to blow out this build to the workstations, the TCO arguments all change. Unlike a Windows build, Linux does not suffer from Malware or becoming slower from day to day. If no changes were necessary (and the machines were firewalled off from attackers), you could quite possibly probably run the same build for years without even rebooting the machine! Of course, as problems and changes come up, a build can be further refined.

A highly refined build coupled with machines that are used more like appliances running Linux represents an extremely low TCO that can't be beat.

There is a reason why Linux is the chosen OS for a number of gadgets and appliances already.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't.

I don't want to see Macs in government run institutions or schools, just a poor use of money IMHO. I'd much rather move towards Linux-based solutions.

I think government will come first (some other governments have already gone this direction). You simply don't need to run Windows to manage paperwork, there is nothing incredibly technologically wonderful going on there - we've been typing up papers for decades. Hopefully Mass moving their documents to the OpenDocument format will be the first sign of this change.

Before you attack me and Linux, keep in mind that my arguments are purely based on dollars and cents, resource allocation, and thrifty spending of tax dollars.

I remember right before our office went mostly Mac last year the IT guts were spazzing out.

We had 4 of them working there. They knew if most of the office went Mac, they'd only need 1 person.

And sure enough that is what happened. They dropped the others back to part time. Which ended up them finding other jobs.

A lot of IT people recommend what gives them more job security than what saves the company more money.

They tried hard for years to push Windows on the graphic and publishing side of the company, and hire more IT people.

The company found out while the hardware was more expensive, upkeep was tons cheaper. And in the long run, they ended up saving money.

They bought mostly Mac minis for the office type computers. So it didn't really cost that much.

The thing is, even the 1 IT guy we have is bored all the time. Esp since most people can fix their own computers in the rare occasion something messes up.

[Panz]

ah your so lucky to be in hong kong man! I wish i was there, even more so now I hear they are going mac crazy!

[besson3c]

You're = you are

[goMac]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

The TCO of Macs is no doubt cheaper when you pit it against Windows, but against Linux I'm not so sure. Especially with highly focused and supposedly easy to use Linux Distros such as Ubuntu out and about.

Linux is not as easy to administer as Mac OS X.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Linux is not as easy to administer as Mac OS X.

Almost irrelevant. Windows is not as easy to administer as Mac OS X either, but that hasn't made a whole lot of difference.

It comes down to money, and a staffing infrastructure that provides a good business model for the environment.

[Kevin]

And it costs more money to hire a large group of IT people to manage Windows or Linux.

And it doesn't with OS X.

So you are right. It does come down to money. In the end you save money with OS X boxes.