[art_director]

An interesting find:

CNN.com Video

[OwlBoy]

hmm. They could do this to your cell phone too!

O M G!

-Owl

[BRussell]

I just now watched that myself. It seemed pretty dumb - if you have wireless hubs or computers set up everywhere the person is going, you can track them? Couldn't you just, you know, use your eyes?

[art_director]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I just now watched that myself. It seemed pretty dumb - if you have wireless hubs or computers set up everywhere the person is going, you can track them? Couldn't you just, you know, use your eyes?

Not if you're in a different location. Let's ay you're a thief and you wanty to clean out my apartment in NYC. You could track my route to / from work and monitor my location while taking all my goods. You'd know for certain whether I was going to catch you in the act.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by OwlBoy 

hmm. They could do this to your cell phone too!

O M G!

-Owl

Have you seen some of the bad azz stuff they can pull off with bluetooth on people's cell phones? To give you and idea:

- Swipe your phonebook
- Make your phone call another phone thus making it a monitoring device (bug)
- Drop docs on your phone

...

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Not if you're in a different location. Let's ay you're a thief and you wanty to clean out my apartment in NYC. You could track my route to / from work and monitor my location while taking all my goods. You'd know for certain whether I was going to catch you in the act.

Only if you have some type of monitors, like people with computers, set up all along the route the person is taking. It doesn't say for sure how close they have to be, but it looks like they have to be quite close, perhaps closer than wifi. So you could just have lookouts using their eyes, and get the same effect. It's not like GPS where the monitors are just there - you have to set up the monitoring devices yourself, and they have to be close to the target at all times.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Only if you have some type of monitors, like people with computers, set up all along the route the person is taking. It doesn't say for sure how close they have to be, but it looks like they have to be quite close, perhaps closer than wifi. So you could just have lookouts using their eyes, and get the same effect. It's not like GPS where the monitors are just there - you have to set up the monitoring devices yourself, and they have to be close to the target at all times.

Maybe, maybe not. It's a proof-of-concept test. As we both know, these things have a way of getting better and better over time. You know, like the guys who can grab a bluetooth signal from distances much greater than the 30' advertised distance.

[vmarks]

Bluetooth mounted on a sighted 'rifle' - The BlueSniper is a rifle stock with a scope and yagi antenna attached. A cable attaches the antenna to the Bluetooth card, which can be in a PDA or laptop computer. The laptop can be carried in a backpack with the cables connecting into the backpack, giving it the Ghostbusters look.

The Flexilis teams demonstrated the gun with some home-brewed Bluetooth scanning software. They pointed the gun down the hallways and out windows. Almost instantly, vulnerable phones with their unique Bluetooth device numbers appeared on the laptop screen. The device is powerful enough to detect devices through building walls.

-- Defcon 12's Fear and Hacking in Vegas | TG Daily

[art_director]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Bluetooth mounted on a sighted 'rifle' - The BlueSniper is a rifle stock with a scope and yagi antenna attached. A cable attaches the antenna to the Bluetooth card, which can be in a PDA or laptop computer. The laptop can be carried in a backpack with the cables connecting into the backpack, giving it the Ghostbusters look.

The Flexilis teams demonstrated the gun with some home-brewed Bluetooth scanning software. They pointed the gun down the hallways and out windows. Almost instantly, vulnerable phones with their unique Bluetooth device numbers appeared on the laptop screen. The device is powerful enough to detect devices through building walls.

-- Defcon 12's Fear and Hacking in Vegas | TG Daily

Case in point.

[Eriamjh]

Wow. from up to 60ft away. You might be able to just watch them with your eyes.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Wow. from up to 60ft away. You might be able to just watch them with your eyes.

Some people just don't get it.

[art_director]

I wonder if they'll be able to go a step further and extract files from your iPod via this technology -- think contacts / calendar. And how about adding files to your iPod?

The implications of this test prove vulnerabilities inherent with such technologies. To dismiss this with the 'you could use your eyes' rationale is to bury one's head in the sand.

Look at RFID. Target and Wal-Mart are using it to track your movements through their stores. They use the data to better target consumers with facings and real estate allocations, not to mention they reconcile what time you spend in a given aisle.

As Steve Rambam says, 'privacy is dead.'

[goMac]

Originally Posted by art_director 

I wonder if they'll be able to go a step further and extract files from your iPod via this technology -- think contacts / calendar. And how about adding files to your iPod?

I highly doubt it. My guess is the iPod only pulls data over Bluetooth, it doesn't push.

Any wireless technology can let you be tracked this way. Cell phones, laptop computers... they all emit radio waves, and they all can be tracked. Anything that emits radio waves can be tracked.

I don't know why this is news.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't know why this is news.

I think the interesting part is the "worst case scenario" where the people don't even know they're carrying a Nike+ shoe insert. You can't just place a cellphone or a laptop on somebody's person or belongings and expect it to stay with them. With the size of the Nike+ insert, it makes tracking
anyone or anything available in an everyday consumer product.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

I think the interesting part is the "worst case scenario" where the people don't even know they're carrying a Nike+ shoe insert. You can't just place a cellphone or a laptop on somebody's person or belongings and expect it to stay with them. With the size of the Nike+ insert, it makes tracking
anyone or anything available in an everyday consumer product.

You can place a GPS device on them though, and then you don't have to stay within 60 ft. of them to track them.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

I think the interesting part is the "worst case scenario" where the people don't even know they're carrying a Nike+ shoe insert. You can't just place a cellphone or a laptop on somebody's person or belongings and expect it to stay with them. With the size of the Nike+ insert, it makes tracking
anyone or anything available in an everyday consumer product.

I don't think that is true. There are many other devices consumers already carry on them that allow you to track them.

That, and rigging up the tracking system required knowledge of electronics. I know quite a few people in the University of Washington CS/CE program, and it's full of extremely smart people, but when that happens they start to think that because they are surrounded by smart people who could do this, everyone must be smart enough to rig up the electronics to track a Nike + iPod transmitter. I doubt we'd see many jealous ex boyfriends smart enough to rig up this sort of system.

Heck, I don't even think as a CS student I'd be able to do that. You'd probably have to either be a CE, an EE, or someone who's spent enough time doing this stuff as a hobby to rig up such a system.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

You can place a GPS device on them though, and then you don't have to stay within 60 ft. of them to track them.

Lol, very true. I'm not saying the Nike+ kit is the end of the world as the video guys seem to be saying, but I do think it's an interesting side of the product that no one has thought of before.

But I'd have to bet that Apple is working on this and either the next software update or version of Nike+ will not be this easy to track.

[mitchell_pgh]

So... will it show me where my shoes are when I can't find them?



PS, our office uses RDIF tags to secure the doors, I'm sure they could track that... also, the DC Metro uses RDIF tags... I wonder if they could track me using that?

[art_director]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I highly doubt it. My guess is the iPod only pulls data over Bluetooth, it doesn't push.

Any wireless technology can let you be tracked this way. Cell phones, laptop computers... they all emit radio waves, and they all can be tracked. Anything that emits radio waves can be tracked.

I don't know why this is news.

That's the reason I turn my cell phone off when I don't need it.

This is news because many people don't see that they can be tracked. It's a privacy issue. And a valid one at that.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

So... will it show me where my shoes are when I can't find them?



PS, our office uses RDIF tags to secure the doors, I'm sure they could track that... also, the DC Metro uses RDIF tags... I wonder if they could track me using that?

Yes, your office RFID tags can be tracked. They can also be spoofed with ease. They can also be cloned as has been proven on several occasions in the past few months.

Another yes to the DC Metro RFID tags being used to track people. Easy to do and it's been proven.

[art_director]

No one of these things may cause concern. But, when you put them all together, you have a recipe for trouble.

How about the RFID the gov will soon be putting in passports? Another bad idea in the making.

First, despite what we're told, the RFID chip can and will be accessible when you carry your passport. Period. Sure, they can put covers on with metal to shield the signal but, as any seasoned traveler knows, you must open your passport in many places when you:

- check in to a hotel
- rent a car
- exchange currency
- cash a traveler's check

Each of those acts would open you up to vulnerability.

[art_director]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

...but I do think it's an interesting side of the product that no one has thought of before.

But I'd have to bet that Apple is working on this and either the next software update or version of Nike+ will not be this easy to track.

Yep, nobody thought of it and now it's in the hands, or shoes as the case may be, of a great many people. Will it be used for evil purposes? Too soon to say. Can it be used for evil purposes? Absolutely.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Yep, nobody thought of it and now it's in the hands, or shoes as the case may be, of a great many people. Will it be used for evil purposes? Too soon to say. Can it be used for evil purposes? Absolutely.

If I'm not mistaken, the vast majority of people serious enough to shell out the money for this kit would probably have a separate pair of running shoes. So it's not like someone could track your daily patterns, just when and where you run.

[art_director]

That assumes that people will only use it for running.

And, for the record, it only costs $29.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

If I'm not mistaken, the vast majority of people serious enough to shell out the money for this kit would probably have a separate pair of running shoes. So it's not like someone could track your daily patterns, just when and where you run.

But that's the point: If someone else buys one of these for $30, then slips it into your jacket/backpack, it can stay with you constantly, not just while you run, and you wouldn't even know it is there.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

But that's the point: If someone else buys one of these for $30, then slips it into your jacket/backpack, it can stay with you constantly, not just while you run, and you wouldn't even know it is there.

Oh, that makes more sense now. A tracking device you don't know about