[centerchannel68]

I'd like to try tuning my own skis, but I don't feel that I need to buy a bunch of fancy expensive equipment when I have access to a HUGE woodshop at school. Vices, files, brushes, tons of stuff around. So... my question is... anybody ever make a 'file guide'? Any tips? Also, can I use sandpaper of light grit to sand off the wax after I hot wax them with an old iron?

[iLikebeer]

ski tuning guide: schedule
basic ski tuning equipment is pretty cheap. google "tune skis" and you'll find tons of sites and guides with step by step instructions.

[centerchannel68]

But cheap isn't free. I have access to tons of wood, files, sandpaper, etc. I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow, I guess.

[climber]

A proper ski tune is probably only going to be done in the shop by an experienced mechanic. But here is what I would start with in order of simplicity and usefulness.

1. Wax the skis. All you need is an cheap iron that can be adjusted for temperature, as well as the ski wax. Set the temp of the iron hot enough to melt the wax, but not hot enough to create smoke. Hold the stick of wax on the iron and drip a line along the ski; then use the iron from one end of the ski and slowly work the wax iron along the bottom of the ski. I use one slow pass and only back up if a dry spot appears on the base of the ski. You need to have enough wax on the ski that the entire base is covered when you run the iron across, but not so much that you waste a lot. After a few times you will quickly get the hang of it. After the entire base is covered you scrape most of the wax off with a couple passes with a plastic scrapper. I would purchase this from a ski shop. This scrapper needs to be perfectly straight along the edge. I follow up by using a brass brush that gets the wax out of the base structure, but this is not quite as important and the brushes for this are kinda expensive.

2. File the base. get a ski file and just run it along the base of the ski at a 45 degree angle. This does not require a bevel on most basic ski tunes. The wax should ideally be removed first. I use a citrus based cleaner, but I used to use just paint thinner when I was being cheap.

3. Debur the edges. This can be done by hand with either a file or a small stone. Unless you want to muck up the edges, focus on just removing any burrs along the edge instead of getting it sharp. Just do your best to follow the bevel that is already on the ski.

4. Sharpen the edges. This can be done by hand with a file, but I would recommend not trying it ( I used to do it all the time). It is much better to use a file guide and as you may know they are not cheap. It is also not necessary to do it that much. I ski at lease twice a week, and I only have this done twice a year. And I beat the crap out of my skis.

My guess is the most of the time I would just wax the ski and not get the files out. I hope this helps.

[climber]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'd like to try tuning my own skis, but I don't feel that I need to buy a bunch of fancy expensive equipment when I have access to a HUGE woodshop at school. Vices, files, brushes, tons of stuff around. So... my question is... anybody ever make a 'file guide'? Any tips? Also, can I use sandpaper of light grit to sand off the wax after I hot wax them with an old iron?

Do not use sandpaper to remove the wax. You will no longer have a flat ski. Use a plastic scrapper meant for that purpose. They are cheap.

[centerchannel68]

I'm going to build a file guide outta scrap wood tomorrow.

btw, by using sandpaper I meant sandpaper adhered to a flat piece of acrylic, or wood.

[residentEvil]

also known as a sanding block

[macroy]

I fill my own gouges and do some light waxing / edging during the season. But I still bring my skis in at least once to make sure the bindings are in shape (lubed, and releases preperly). I don't mess with that myself....

If you take a overnight trip, ask about their ski storage. Usually you can just spend like $3 to have them store it overnight, and they'll usually edge it for you.

I've also found the folks to be real helpful at demo days.... you need to fight the crowds... but if you get on their good side, sometime they'll check out your skiis for you.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

If you're just a casual skiier (and/or snowboarder) and not worried about a performance hit, I suppose homemade stuff would do for you. If you're concerned about performance (which, judging by your obsession with it in other cars/audio threads, I'd be surprised if you weren't here too ), you'll spend the small amount of money and get professional tools or a professional to do it for you.

I snowboard, but I ride alpine styles (hard boots, ~185cm boards, 60-degree-plus stance angles) and thus am concerned about the speed and performance I get out of my equipment. I used to do a lot of my own waxing/tuning, but in the past couple years I just haven't had time and I send it to a guy at a local ski shop who knows what he's doing (which many of those people don't). I get a 1-degree base bevel on my edges, 1.5-degree side bevel, solid edge and base repairs and a good hot wax job for $38 every 3 or 4 times after I ride. For me, it's worth it; if you mostly ride powder or are an amateur or don't go terribly fast getting that kind of precision and performance on your equipment may justifiably take a back seat to price.

There are lots of little tricks to a good job, and I suggest you find a good performance site first before you start messing around, because you can mess things up pretty easily. For example, do not take climber's advice unless you know a lot more about it (sorry, buddy! ). Regular temperature-controlled irons can get a lot hotter than they should be in a real hurry, and burn the wax or the bottom of your board; this has happened to me when I borrowed one once. As well, you should not wax your board and then tune the edges. You'll just get metal filings in the wax, and they'll work their way into your base! Before you do your edges you should completely clean the board of any wax, and then work on the edges. Polish with a diamond stone, and finally clean your base to remove any filings before moving on to the waxing job.

This is mostly for snowboards, but I'm sure it's a similar thing for skiis.

greg

[climber]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'm going to build a file guide outta scrap wood tomorrow.

btw, by using sandpaper I meant sandpaper adhered to a flat piece of acrylic, or wood.

The only time I use sandpaper is when I am bringing down repaired ptex that has been melted into the base. Even with a flat piece of wood or acrylic it would be way to easy to sand off the base leaving the edges high. That would be bad and make the ski very twitchy. Use a steel file instead. To remove the wax, use a rag and some thinner.

[climber]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

For example, do not take climber's advice unless you know a lot more about it (sorry, buddy! ). Regular temperature-controlled irons can get a lot hotter than they should be in a real hurry, and burn the wax or the bottom of your board; this has happened to me when I borrowed one once. As well, you should not wax your board and then tune the edges. greg

A regular iron will work just fine. You just can not use if for clothes anymore! You just have to be careful that it will not burn the wax (as you said). That means turning the temperature down. It starts to smoke when it is to hot. It just needs to melt the wax. If if is to cold, the wax will not flow when working it into the ski.

I never suggested tuning the edges after the wax. I said try waxing before even messing with the edges. It only takes about 5 minutes to wax a ski and will by far give the most improvement on the slopes.

[G4ME]

i would be causious using an standard iron to hot wax your skis, if the temp is too high you will blow out your edges, trust me my friend has a nice pair of rock jumpers now. look at the temp of SWIX hot wax irons and the temps used for different waxes, i think CH8 is around 115 degrees, not sure if irons go that low. Also make sure this is an iron that you don't want to use on your dress shirt, because all those steam holes will be caked with wax.

As for the sanding block, i def wouldn't use it after hot waxing. The purpose of hot waxing is to open the pores on the base to get wax in there. The scraping action afterwords actually removes all the wax you put down other then what you put into the pores. So sanding is removing the actual base, so it would be defeating the purpose of the hot waxing.

Now you can do your own "stone grinding" sanding the entire base to remove small pits and take out some of the burs on the edges. In stone grinding they take about 220 on a special machine that usually runs a 10 grand to grind your entire base. Could you do it on your skis with a belt sander sure, but chances of you doing more damage then good is pretty high.


just remember you are only saving about 25 bucks by doing this though.

[centerchannel68]

Not really. Everyplace around here wants $50-60 to tune a ski.

I feel pretty confident in waxing with a regular iron and a dimmer switch hooked up to an extension cord, but the edges have me worreid with all the 'deburr this' and 'detune the tail if this' and bla bla bla bla. The problem is, I have nicks and a bit of rust all over my edges from normal use. And I DO NOT feel like paying $40 for a god damn piece of plastic with a stone in it. I'm really suprised everybody pays that much money for this stuff.... it shouldn't be hard to make your own. If i knew what the hell I was doing, I'm sure i could make my own file guide very easily. So help me out:

When filing to remove my gouges, should it a be a 90 degree angle? How do existing file guides work? Do they have littel wheels or a slider that slides along the other side? Or what?

[davesimondotcom]

It was a lot easier to do home tunes when skis were straight!

I don't even try with my curved skis. It's a whole different beast.

I'll have them tuned once a year or so if I ski a lot. Most seasons I don't even need to because I don't ski enough.

However, it's cheap to get your skis edged and waxed. A tune is a different story. With a tune, they'll fill up any rock chips with P-tex or whatever they use these days and all of that.

[G4ME]

read ShortcutToMoncton post, just like ice skates you don't want a perfectly flat surface

call around and see what people charge just for the edges, cause no way in hell should it be 50 bucks, if it is sucks to live there

btw what kind of mountains you have over there?

[climber]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Not really. Everyplace around here wants $50-60 to tune a ski.

I feel pretty confident in waxing with a regular iron and a dimmer switch hooked up to an extension cord, but the edges have me worreid with all the 'deburr this' and 'detune the tail if this' and bla bla bla bla. The problem is, I have nicks and a bit of rust all over my edges from normal use. And I DO NOT feel like paying $40 for a god damn piece of plastic with a stone in it. I'm really suprised everybody pays that much money for this stuff.... it shouldn't be hard to make your own. If i knew what the hell I was doing, I'm sure i could make my own file guide very easily. So help me out:

When filing to remove my gouges, should it a be a 90 degree angle? How do existing file guides work? Do they have littel wheels or a slider that slides along the other side? Or what?

Most skis are tuned with some degree of bevel on the base. Usually 1/2 to 2 degrees. This keeps the ski from wanting to turn on its own when it is flat on the snow. This has become more important for the newer shaped skis with more sidecut. Anyone who skis on both old and new skis understands how the newer skis like to turn by themselves when going fast and flat. Most people deal with this by keeping the ski on and edge. The bevel on the ski also helps. In the 70's and 80's I used to put my own bevel on my freestyle trick skis (formally referred to as ski ballet). I would have a obscene amount of bevel on the edges to allow the ski to pivot. If you look at the following web site you can see the base bevel guide.

http://www.ski-racing.com/base_beast.html

What I want you to understand is the diagram that shows the tool. The "elevation bar" is what determines the amount of bevel. This is by the thickness. You can simulate this by hand with a thin plastic card under that end of the metal file. I used to use my drivers licensee. You probably could do the math and calculate how thick it would have to be in get a 1 degree bevel. The fancy tool just does what we used to do in the old days with a thin card.

The side edges are much harder to work on. The problem for me at least is the binding getting in the way. Anyway if you are still undeterred, here are the basics. The side bevel is usually the same as the base bevel so as to create a 90 degree corner on the edge (But not always). You could make a guide that holds a file at the appropriate angle that runs along the base side of the ski. A piece of hardwood with a thin layer of that slippery white plastic glued to it (I can't think of the name for this stuff, but it is common in woodworking jigs.) Then on a 91 degree bevel (or whatever you want) you glue a sideboard to hold the file. Some side bevel guides are nothing more than a piece of angle aluminum that the file is then clamped. A piece of angled plastic sits between and sets the amount of bevel. You may be able to make something out of hardwood that does the same thing. Here is a decent picture:

http://www.racewax.com/servlet/the-1...file%2C/Detail

Like many in this thread, I no longer tune my skis myself. I take them in a couple of times a year. The expensive machines simply do a better job than I ever could. And I worked in a ski shop for a couple of years doing this to pay for my ski habit.

I hope this helps.

[centerchannel68]

Well, I ended up just using a small c-clamp to hold a piece of triangular wood against a file, and then just ran it down both sides of the ski. It's sharper now. I also blew $40 on a waxing iron, because goodwill and st vincent's didn't have ONE ****ing used iron. ARGH. Whatever. I'm good to go. I'm going to make a better edge sharpener for a project this semester, I think.

[centerchannel68]

One thing I don't get. How in the HELL are you supposed to keep the 'anti runaway ski' feet out of the way during this process? They just get in the way of basically anything. Is there a trick?

[ink]

Put a boot in? :-)

Since getting shaped skis, I haven't tried to do it at home. Let us know how it goes.

[centerchannel68]

Stupidity:

YouTube - Kevin and Rob's EXTREME Skiing Video

[climber]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

One thing I don't get. How in the HELL are you supposed to keep the 'anti runaway ski' feet out of the way during this process? They just get in the way of basically anything. Is there a trick?

Use a heavy rubber band. Works great and is very simple.

[centerchannel68]

Then doesn't the band get in the way?

[Arty50]

The only expensive piece of equipment you need for tuning are base guides and edge guides. Even those can be found cheaply. The rest is really cheap. You can use a normal iron. Tons of people do. I have lots of friends who just picked up a $5-10 iron at Goodwill. As said before, you just need to make sure you don't get it too hot. Too hot = smoking wax.

The rest of the equipment is easy. For waxing, all you need is wax, a plastic scraper, and a $0.10 piece of 3M green scouring pad.

Drip on the wax, melt it in with the iron, let the wax dry, scrape thoroughly with the plastic scraper (DO NOT USE SANDPAPER), and then finish with the scouring pad.

That's it. You can get all fancy with brass brushes and stuff, but that's totally unnecessary unless you're racing.

Edge tuning is a different deal. If you are going to tune your base edge with the same degree of bevel that it already has, then you just need a file guide or file aparatus that has the same degree. If you're going to change the degree, then you need to have a stone grind to flatten out the base and edges. It's possible to do your own base flattening, but you'll get nowhere near the quality that you get out of a machine with a good stone. Also, be careful with base grinds. You can only have so many done depending on the thickness of your bases. Side edges you just work until the bevel is at the proper angle.

After the filing, you can either buy a diamond tool or use a piece of fine grit sandpaper wrapped around your file to hone the edge. A final pass with a gummy stone is a good idea too.

Finally, you may want to detune your tips and tails. I find that my edges are too hooky if I don't do this. Some people don't go this extra step though. It's just personal preference.

And finally, the best place to buy stuff is www.tognar.com. They have everything from cheap do-it-yourself tuning supplies to super expensive race equipment. AFAIK (I can't get to their site right now), they even have online tuning guides.

Edit: No the band will not get in the way. Modern ski brakes retract inward when they are in the up position. If the rubber band is tight enough, you won't have a problem.

[G4ME]

I use two rubber bands found on asparagus and just wrap then over the break peddle and they work fine.