[Coach]

Tell me what to do, what to see, and, possibly where to stay.

April 7-13, 2007.

Can't wait.

Thanks

[EmmEff]

FWIW, I've stayed at Hotel Palomar in the Financial District two different times and really like it! It a high 3 star/low 4 star so it is a bit pricey, though. I've also stayed at the Marriott near Fisherman's Wharf. I usually stay outside of SF for the sake of saving a few $$$ on hotels. I've stayed in various hotels in Napa Valley, San Jose, Monterey, and Santa Clara.

Things to see? What are you interested in? I'm an amateur photog, so enjoyed just taking pictures of the architecture, GG bridge, took a trip to Napa, south to San Jose/Santa Cruz/Monterey, etc. The city of SF intrigues me and I've yet to see all of it despite having been to SF more than a dozen times.

Check out TripAdvisor or Expedia for more travel info. Last time I went, I used the Fodor's SF tour book.

[Zarqawi's Eye]

Watch out for the junkies roaming the streets.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Coach 

Tell me what to do, what to see, and, possibly where to stay.

April 7-13, 2007.

Can't wait.

Thanks

It all depends on what you enjoy doing. San Francisco is an amazing city to hang out in, with a huge variety of things to do, things to see, and places to eat. I go twice a year.

For tourists, it seems there are two main spots that tourists stay. Union Square, or Fisherman's Wharf.

If you want to stay at Union Square, I highly recommend the Chancellor Hotel. It is located at 433 Powell St (maps.google.com). You can get awesome deals here (much better than on their website), and the location is fantastic.

You can walk 4 blocks south to the cable car turn around, and Market Street. You are also a mere block away from the flagship Apple store (located at the base of Stockton).

From here, you can get almost anywhere. I would highly recommend taking the cable car through town to Fisherman's Wharf. If you haven't been to SF before, take the Powell-Hyde Street line so you can get off at the top of Lombard Street (the crooked section). It is a blast driving or walking down Lombard, makes for a nice photo op, and you can easily walk to the wharf from there.

One word on the cable car. It is really freaking expensive, like $5 EACH WAY per person.

If you get the San Francisco City Pass (www.citypass.com) you get admission to a whole bunch of sites, but you also get a 7 day unlimited pass for the transit system, and the cable cars. It really pays itself off during the trip.

Now, Fisherman's Wharf is VERY commercial, but there are a few sites to see. First off, hope the Bushman is there when you go, and watch him scare the crap out of people. Lunch at Scomas (if they still have their lunch special), or get some fresh crab. Spend some time at Pier 39. See the Sea Lions. Go to the Bubba Gump Shrimp Factory, and get your picture taken on the Forrest Gump bench.

Alcatraz is definitely worth it. Be careful on two things though. One, book early and in advance for your trip. Two, be aware that the vendor that runs ferries over to the island changed late last year. It is HornBlower now I believe. The other thing is that the old company (Blue and Gold) departed from Pier 39. I believe the new company departs from Pier 33. I could be wrong about that though.

When you get on the island, a parks dude will give you a brief talk on the do's and do not's of the island. You can then watch a short movie on the history of the island, and then walk up to the cellblock. Inside, there is an audio tour where you wear headphones, and former guards and inmates narrate your way around the prison. Very cool. You can take a ferry back to Fishermans Wharf whenever you are done.

Blue and Gold (departing from Pier 39) does offer a San Francisco Bay cruise which is all right.

Another great thing to do is to walk across the Golden Gate bridge, go to Sausalito, have dinner, and then take the ferry back across.

The other thing you could do from Powell and Market, once you have gone to the Apple store of course, is to take the F-Line down Market to where it meets Embarcadero, and go to the Ferry Building. The Embarcadero continues around to Fishermans Wharf, so this is another way to get there if you don't want to take the cable cars.

If you like naval history, you can tour the USS Pampanito submarine. It is docked at Fisherman's Wharf near pier 45 (I think... it has been a while).

This should give you a few ideas. There are also the wine tours, heading down to Monterey to the Aquarium, the San Francisco Zoo, all of the sites in the CityPass, the Painted Ladies, go up to the Twin Peaks, etc.

Seriously, it is an amazing city, and I have only mentioned the really touristy things.

A few final things:

1) NEVER call it Frisco, or San Fran. The locals will beat you!!!

2) If you stay in Union Square, be careful of heading too far west of Powell street at night. It is an area called the Tenderloin, and has many homeless people. Truth be told, I have NEVER had problems in this area, just use common sense. Still though, it is worth mentioning.

3) This is the most important thing. You can fall in love with San Francisco just by walking around and exploring. I found an amazing chinese restaurant (near Stockton and California) just by wandering around. I had an amazing conversation with a lady one night, and had an amazing dessert, at a small cafe in the Castro. I loved the Dashiell Hammett tour I did, etc.

The locals will give you much better info than me, but I hope this helps.

Cheers,

James L

[macroy]

Excellent tips man. I'm going to the RSA Conference in early Feb... I think that city pass will come in handy as we're forgoing a rental car. We'll be staying at the Renessance and the conference is at the Moscone Center.. hopefully that's walkable.

[OreoCookie]

I'll be in Berkeley for four months, April to July … can't wait to see San Francisco!

[James L]

Originally Posted by macroy 

Excellent tips man. I'm going to the RSA Conference in early Feb... I think that city pass will come in handy as we're forgoing a rental car. We'll be staying at the Renessance and the conference is at the Moscone Center.. hopefully that's walkable.

If you mean the Parc 55 hotel, it is easily walkable to Moscone Center.

The Parc is at Market and 5th street. Head down Market to 4th street, go into the Apple Store (really, you can't pass it with going in, can you?), then cross Market and head down 4th street. Moscone is a few blocks up on Howard Street.

Just look up Market and 5th on maps.google.com. Moscone is listed on the map. It is only a few blocks in total.

There is an awesome little restaurant tucked above Moscone Center called Mo's. Great burgers!!!

Imho you really don't need a car in San Francisco... only for the day trips.

Cheers,

James L

[macroy]

Actually - its The Stanford Court - located on Nob Hill(?) which is basically California and Powell.. I see that I may need to take the Powell-Mason line down to Market....

Is that a cable car route? How do they work? you get on at a light? Sorry for the stupid questions. Everytime I goto San Francisco, its to visit friends.. and they usually drive me around so I've never actually taken the public transit there.

And since I'm already on the stupid question route... is that city pass gonna get me on this powell-mason line?

And I'm looking to hit every damn site you've mentioned . Its amazing how little "actual work" really gets done at conferences.

[James L]

Originally Posted by macroy 

Actually - its The Stanford Court - located on Nob Hill(?) which is basically California and Powell.. I see that I may need to take the Powell-Mason line down to Market....

Is that a cable car route? How do they work? you get on at a light? Sorry for the stupid questions. Everytime I goto San Francisco, its to visit friends.. and they usually drive me around so I've never actually taken the public transit there.

And since I'm already on the stupid question route... is that city pass gonna get me on this powell-mason line?

And I'm looking to hit every damn site you've mentioned . Its amazing how little "actual work" really gets done at conferences.

You could still easily walk to Moscone from California and Powell. It would only be about 7 or blocks downhill to Market St, and then a few more blocks from there.

It would be 7 or 8 blocks uphill going home though, so some people may want to take the cable car from Market and Powell up to California street if they don't like walking uphill.

The CityPass gives you unlimited access to the MUNI system, and the cable cars, for 7 days.

Cheers,

James L

[James L]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I'll be in Berkeley for four months, April to July … can't wait to see San Francisco!

What will you be there for if you don't mind me asking? School?

[IceBreaker]

very aggressive "homeless" population, be warned.

I'd go somewhere else if you can.

[simonjames]

Excellent advice so far

If you get bored take the ferry to Sausalito and/or if you have a car and you're interested in wines then the Napa and Sonoma Valleys are not too far away

If you like shopping & engineering (strange combo I know) then I believe that Nordstroms have a circular escalator - may not sound like much now but at the time it built it was unique.

[Dakar²]

Be sure to have some authentic Rice-A-Roni while you're there.

[EmmEff]

Originally Posted by simonjames

If you like shopping & engineering (strange combo I know) then I believe that Nordstroms have a circular escalator - may not sound like much now but at the time it built it was unique.

I seemed to have missed that at Nordstroms.

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Be sure to have some authentic Rice-A-Roni while you're there.

Do they actually have Rice-A-Roni in San Fransisco? I've looked for it but never found it more prominently than in other cities. I think this fabled San Franciscan love for Rice-A-Roni is all a hoax

[James L]

Originally Posted by IceBreaker 

very aggressive "homeless" population, be warned.

I'd go somewhere else if you can.

Really? You think? you would not recommend an entire beautiful city because of homeless people?

I didn't find them any worse than in New York City, or in Vancouver, or in Seattle, or in Toronto, or in Hollywood, etc.

There is most definitely a population of homeless people in the tenderloin area that can be pretty up front about panhandling, but if you don't stray blocks west of Powell St at midnight you are fine.

People just need to use their common sense in ANY urban city they spend time in, don't you think?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by James L 

Really? You think? you would not recommend an entire beautiful city because of homeless people?

I didn't find them any worse than in New York City, or in Vancouver, or in Seattle, or in Toronto, or in Hollywood, etc.

There is most definitely a population of homeless people in the tenderloin area that can be pretty up front about panhandling, but if you don't stray blocks west of Powell St at midnight you are fine.

People just need to use their common sense in ANY urban city they spend time in, don't you think?

Exactly. Pretty much any city is going to have a homeless/indigent population. Heck, even in the Midwest of the UNited States they have homeless in their cities. It's just that their cities tend to be smaller so their homeless populations tend to be smaller. You wanna know the place that I thought had the worst homeless population . . . Orlando, Florida. I only lived there for two years in the early 90s but in terms of visibility it seemed like they were everywhere in downtown Orlando. (My guess is that there was a lot of opportunistic pan-handling going on because of the large tourist trade in Orlando. Bu the true homeless--the ones you saw day after day in the same spots--were all crazy. And not just mental crazy but frothing-at-the-mouth crazy.

Anyway, back on topic, while the homeless in SF can be a problem, I think they are only slightly worse than other major international/cosmopolitan cities. So, if the poster didn't like the homeless in SF I am guessing they really wouldn't like the ones we got in New York--They are as pushy and obnoxious as everyone else in New York.

[mac-at-kearsarge]

As someone who was a first time visitor to SF last week for MacWorld, I can give you some great info.

Lodging:

Stay in the union square area, and you'll be at the heart of everything.

If you're going on a budget, may I suggest The Mosser hotel. If you are willing to try something a little different, it's an awesome place to stay. It was built for the 1915 worlds fair in a classic vicrorian style hotel. The current owners are at the tail end of a major restoration of the buidling. Everyroom has wired/wireless internet access, very comfy beds, and a good TV line up. If you go the route I did and go with the shared bathroom option at their unadvertised weekly rate, it's only $355, inc. tax, for 7 nights (Traditional private bathroom, room are avalible too). If you don't mind paying more, all the major hotel chains have locations around union square too.

Dining:

There are tons of fantastic restraunts of every flavor in SF. I used this website as a guide: San Francisco Restaurants, San Francisco Menus, Ratings, Reviews, SF Restaurants Guide Only once did it stear me wrong (the Cathay House is the worst Asian/Asian themed restaurant I've ever been to).

Transportation

As a first time visitor to SF, I was a little confused (and overwhelmed) by the options avalible. Unlike many cities, where bus/Light rail/subway/commuter train are all run by one agency (Like Boston's MBTA), there are several agencies in SF. But there's really only 3 you need to know:

Muni (San Francisco Muni Official Site); They are the "in city" agency and run the busses, street cars, subway, and the cable cars* and are the agency you'll probably use the most for getting around, when you don't want to walk. walk-up one way fares can be really expensive so getting a 1/3/7 day pass is the best payment method (Especially for the cable cars)

BART (BART - Bay Area Rapid Transit District): The Bay Area Rapid Trabsit system connects the suburbs on SF to the heart of the city. If you're flying in to either San Francisco international airport, or Oakland International airport, then BART is the best way to get into SF. Fasres are based on orgin and departure points. BART and MUNI share two stations in downtown SF.

CalTrain (caltrain.com - home) CalTrain is the commuter train service that links SF with the SIlican Valley/San Jose areas tp the south. I took Caltrain when I went down to visit the 'mothership'(Apple headquarters in Cupertino). If you think you might do the same, take BART ot the end of the Blue line (Milbrae) where BART and Caltrain share a station. Fares between Milbrae and Sunnyvale (Where you'd get off for Apple) is less then $7 round trip.

SamTrain is a bus agency you'll see a bit in Downtown SF. I was advised by several people to avoid them so I did.

*Considering their tourist appeal, and national historic signifigance, I aways assumed the cable cars where stricltly a tourist attraction. I couldn't believe it when I found out that they're still run as part of the local transportion system (Hence why they're opertated by the MUNI) agency). But after riding them, I understand why. There simply is not any modern form of mass transit that can operate on those hills. What was evening more surprising to me is that they still let people ride on the running boardson the the outside of the car (you absolutly must try this, even if it's freezing rain out!). The cars stop at every cross street to let people on and off. Ridng the Powell-Hyde line after sunset is one of the most breat taking experience in my entire life.

You'll have a great time there. It is true what they say about the homeless though. They won't bother you, but are impossible to miss or ignore. I did soem quick research after my trip and found out that SF as the highest homeless population any where in the country. But like I said, they won't give you any trouble. Unfortuneltly, they're used to being ignored.

[James L]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

Exactly. Pretty much any city is going to have a homeless/indigent population. Heck, even in the Midwest of the UNited States they have homeless in their cities. It's just that their cities tend to be smaller so their homeless populations tend to be smaller. You wanna know the place that I thought had the worst homeless population . . . Orlando, Florida. I only lived there for two years in the early 90s but in terms of visibility it seemed like they were everywhere in downtown Orlando. (My guess is that there was a lot of opportunistic pan-handling going on because of the large tourist trade in Orlando. Bu the true homeless--the ones you saw day after day in the same spots--were all crazy. And not just mental crazy but frothing-at-the-mouth crazy.

Anyway, back on topic, while the homeless in SF can be a problem, I think they are only slightly worse than other major international/cosmopolitan cities. So, if the poster didn't like the homeless in SF I am guessing they really wouldn't like the ones we got in New York--They are as pushy and obnoxious as everyone else in New York.

I totally agree.

On an unrelated note, how is the move to NYC working out for you?

Cheers,

James L

[mindwaves]

I've been to SF and I will say it is heavily geared towards tourists which is not good IMO. I don't like such places. It is just my preference. I did like the Alcatraz tour however. Fisherman's Wharf was ok. I agree on the bums being fairly aggressive. The food there is also highly overrated. I stayed in Oakland to keep the costs low. The motel I stayed in had a guard at the gate so I wasn't too afraid of my car being stolen. I just took the BART to SF when desired.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by James L 

I had an amazing conversation with a lady one night, and had an amazing dessert, at a small cafe in the Castro.

There is a very good pizza place in the Castro district my girlfriend's brother introduced me to. If you're going to go anywhere in the Castro district, be aware that is has a lot of... character.

[James L]

Originally Posted by goMac 

There is a very good pizza place in the Castro district my girlfriend's brother introduced me to. If you're going to go anywhere in the Castro district, be aware that is has a lot of... character.

The people are very friendly though.

[TimmyDee51]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

I've been to SF and I will say it is heavily geared towards tourists which is not good IMO. I don't like such places. It is just my preference. I did like the Alcatraz tour however. Fisherman's Wharf was ok. I agree on the bums being fairly aggressive. The food there is also highly overrated. I stayed in Oakland to keep the costs low. The motel I stayed in had a guard at the gate so I wasn't too afraid of my car being stolen. I just took the BART to SF when desired.

Having lived in SF my first year in the Bay Area, I can say this is true -- of some parts of the city. If you avoid Fisherman's Wharf and that whole disaster up there, it's actually a very nice city.

Here's my tips.

Visit the Presidio. Beautiful location with some great views of the city and the Golden Gate Bridge. Just outside of the Presidio on Chestnut is a nice area that's not too touristy. There are some good places to eat around there that are more catered to locals.

If you want good Italian food, go to North Beach. Can be a bit touristy, but not too bad. China Town, on the other hand, is very touristy. Some of the places to eat are pretty decent, though. If you want a more realistic China Town, visit the one in Oakland.

Take a stroll or bike through Golden Gate Park (no where near the Golden Gate Bridge). It's a nice large park with lots to do. Definitely a favorite with the locals. I used to live about a mile from it (not far from the Panhandle of the park) and would go running there often.

Get out of the city if you can and head up to Marin. In addition to Muir Woods (tourist destination but worth it), there is Point Reyes National Seashore just a bit further up Highway 1. Highly recommended. Also nearby is Mount Tam.

That's all I can think of right now. If you want good places to eat, avoid the Wharf area. Hit up North Beach for Italian and the Mission for good Mexican food (they invented the burrito there). Japan Town has good Japanese food (obviously). As far as the homeless, it's not really all that bad. If you steer clear of the touristy areas, they're less aggressive. Have a good time!