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Rumor · Jan 19, 2007, 04:37 PM

MyFox St. Louis | Text: One Key Opens Two Different Saturn Cars

I feel sorry for everyone in this. Chances of this happening have to be pretty slim. The insurance company should cover the "stolen" vehicle under comprehensive, since it was taken without the owners permission.

The other vehicle should be covered under uninsured motorist, if they have it there.

Dakar² · Jan 19, 2007, 04:41 PM

I've heard of this before. 10 years ago 2 guys with identical trucks left the mall with each others vehicle.

Gossamer · Jan 19, 2007, 04:43 PM

My biology teacher in high school told a story of how his parents lost both the keys to their buick. They went to the dealership and they pulled out a case of 12 different keys and tried each one until they found the one that worked. So apparently there's a 1 in 12 chance you can open up a similar buick.

Dakar² · Jan 19, 2007, 04:44 PM

Back in the stone age, maybe.

residentEvil · Jan 19, 2007, 04:53 PM

the rumor was around in the early 80s too when there were so many chevettes on the road. i think it was 1 in 10 back then.

turtle777 · Jan 19, 2007, 04:54 PM

Only in America........n cars

-t

ort888 · Jan 19, 2007, 05:15 PM

Here's a fun fact. If you push the button on a keyless entry remote 257 times in a row, you will render it useless. It has to be done out of range though.

indigoimac · Jan 19, 2007, 05:28 PM

Just to weigh in here, it's not only a Saturn keypads as they are GM generics, all/most GM vehicles use these keypads, whose innards are made by Motorola(as are many other car brands) so the chance of this happening is relatively high, I remember one time I went to lock my Saturn and when I pressed the button it set off the panic button and horn on a Subaru behind me, unlocked it, the horn shut off, locked it again and it turned back on, quite funny.

So turtle, you are mistaken.

turtle777 · Jan 19, 2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by indigoimac

So turtle, you are mistaken.

I'm glad you took it seriously in the first place. Kudos

-t

indigoimac · Jan 19, 2007, 05:32 PM

You're welcome

Originally Posted by turtle777

I'm glad you took it seriously in the first place. Kudos

-t

- - e r i k - - · Jan 19, 2007, 05:37 PM

This is well known in the locksmith-world. Only works for older models of cars though. Like eighties-early nineties.

Railroader · Jan 19, 2007, 06:40 PM

Digg - two different keys operate one saturn - and it was stolen!

hart · Jan 19, 2007, 08:14 PM

hmmm...well last Thanksgiving at a stop on the New Jersey turnpike I clicked my door opening button for our 2001 dodge grand caravan, leaped into it with my 3 kids and .... there was someone else's grandma sitting in the back seat (and an alarming dirth of chicken mcNuggets crushed into the floor).

Turns out it was someone else's red grand caravan parked directly next to our red grand caravan and the clicker had worked on their car.

So I'm not sure about this older car thing. Wasn't true for me.

indigoimac · Jan 19, 2007, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by hart

So I'm not sure about this older car thing. Wasn't true for me.

I believe the "older" thing regards physical keys and not key fobs.

hart · Jan 19, 2007, 08:37 PM

ah, keys. those objects. the old days. Still a fob IS a key for all intents and purposes. The same security requirements should hold doubly true for virtual keys you would think.

hickey · Jan 19, 2007, 09:05 PM

in Virginia, all Fairfax County police cruisers use the same key.

Im not sure if its like that in all counties though.

brassplayersrock² · Jan 19, 2007, 09:38 PM

a few years back my mom was at a shopping mall and coincidentally someone with the same car as hers had parked next to her and actually waited for my mom to return. the reason why the guy waited was to show her that HIS car keys to HIS car could in fact open her car, and my moms keys his. she just laughed it off at the moment, but later started thinking about it, and it spooked her. so yeah, this is possible. to clarify, this was back in 2002

Alex

edit: and her car was a Pontiac, not a Saturn.

Doofy · Jan 19, 2007, 09:42 PM

Two words: Class action!

Gamoe · Jan 19, 2007, 10:16 PM

I once accidentally locked my keys in my car in another state, while snowing. I had a mid-nineties Mercury Tracer at the time. With a little maneuvering, my friend was able to open my car door using the key of his same-era Ford Tachoma. Actually, it was quite lucky. If we hadn't been able to open it then and there it would have complicated matters greatly. However, the huge security issues are startling.

CharlesS · Jan 19, 2007, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by indigoimac

I believe the "older" thing regards physical keys and not key fobs.

The car in the article was a 2000 Saturn, and presumably you'd need a physical key to start the engine, so apparently not.

Peter · Jan 20, 2007, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by hickey

in Virginia, all Fairfax County police cruisers use the same key.

Im not sure if its like that in all counties though.

uhmm, isn't that a bit risky?

gradient · Jan 20, 2007, 01:52 AM

At my work we had two vans last year - the same key could open both of them (until we got rid of one of them, though that was unrelated). One of them was a Dodge, the other a Chevrolet, about 10 years apart in manufacture date. I also once used that same key, by mistake, to open a nearly identical van someone had parked in front of our building. Go figure - it happens.

Mastrap · Jan 20, 2007, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Two words: Class action!

Three words: Not a chance.

Oversoul · Jan 20, 2007, 07:13 AM

I've seen something like this happen with key fobs. Two Dodge Intreped rentals were parked two spots away from each other, and a tourist couple pressed their fob and opened up the doors and stepped into the wrong car. The fob apparently opened up the doors to their car and another rental too.

I've luckily never had this happen to me, even though I see a lot of copies of my car around.

Goldfinger · Jan 20, 2007, 08:01 AM

My dad had it happen with his keyless entry card from his Renault Espace. So it does happen.

Doofy · Jan 20, 2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Three words: Not a chance.

The idea behind having a key is that you have a reasonable level of security for the item which the key opens. If there's copious amounts of duplicate keys knocking around then you don't have that security. Thus the key isn't fit for purpose and the vendors peddling such items should be subject to a law suit.

analogika · Jan 20, 2007, 04:17 PM

Good luck going against the entire industry.

Seriously, this is common knowledge.

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2007, 04:29 PM

I feel pretty safe driving a VW in the USofA.

The chances that I run into that problem are so slim, I might as well celebrate my lottery win now

-t

Mastrap · Jan 20, 2007, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

The idea behind having a key is that you have a reasonable level of security for the item which the key opens.

You do.

Doofy · Jan 20, 2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

You do.

Nope. A reasonable level of security means that the vehicle can't be entered short of illegal means.

Originally Posted by analogika

Good luck going against the entire industry.

If this ever happens to me, good luck to the industry. You guys wanna be all pansy about it then that's up to you - I personally expect a key to be more than 1 in 15 unique.

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Seriously, this is common knowledge.

I didn't know about it, so it's obviously not common knowledge.

analogika · Jan 20, 2007, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. A reasonable level of security means that the vehicle can't be entered short of illegal means.

That level of security is given.

Unlocking and entering your automobile without permission is most certainly illegal, regardless of whether the person happens to own a device that makes this possible without damaging the property.

A decent brick gives the average person a MUCH higher certainty of being able to enter your car.

turtle777 · Jan 20, 2007, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

That level of security is given.

Unlocking and entering your automobile without permission is most certainly illegal, regardless of whether the person happens to own a device that makes this possible without damaging the property.

A decent brick gives the average person a MUCH higher certainty of being able to enter your car.

I hate it when you are right like that.

-t

SSharon · Jan 21, 2007, 07:03 AM

I have another story where this happened. The key to my dad's previous camry opened another camry door. This was an older model camry and his key was very worn down though. You could take the key out of the ignition while the key was running in fact.

analogika · Jan 21, 2007, 07:45 AM

There's a whole generation of VW microbusses where the passenger-side door would open with ANY VW car key - and a number of others.

This is completely normal in the industry. Nobody has any illusions about car door locks being a deterrent to anybody but the casual pilferer.

As I said above, if you want to get into a car, any old brick will do you just fine.

Eriamjh · Jan 21, 2007, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

Here's a fun fact. If you push the button on a keyless entry remote 257 times in a row, you will render it useless. It has to be done out of range though.

Um. WRONG. Most rolling code transmitters automatically resynchronize the rolling counter when you press the "lock" button since this would only relock the car and present no security risk.

Pressing the unlock next will unlock the car.

IFLY2HIGH · Jan 21, 2007, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

That level of security is given.

Unlocking and entering your automobile without permission is most certainly illegal, regardless of whether the person happens to own a device that makes this possible without damaging the property.

A decent brick gives the average person a MUCH higher certainty of being able to enter your car.

So if you were smart, a crook can open up your car, steal all your valuables and walk off with them. They had a key, no one is gona question, is that his car? Someone walks up with a brick, puts it though your window, opens the door, guess he's breaking and entering, we need to call the police.

Who's gona question who, someone who used a key fab to open your car, or someone who just tossed a brick in your window?

Next time you walk out looking for your car it may not be there, cause they just decided to drove off with it and, oh no, now what, look at the hassle you have to go though with insurance and the deal with getting another car that you may not be able to afford at that moment. When it happens to you, then you'll relize what some people do and say, it's crap that car keys can open 1 and 10 cars, not like everyone has 20,000$ just to plop down on something new to drive because the auto makers want to be cheap and make a certain amount of keys. This is where the chip in the key grip that is coded along with the car's ignition lock is more secure. Now you have to match up two things instead of one. My mom's Buick is like that, you can put the non chipped valet key in the ignition and drive if for 5 mins and then the engine shuts down.

Just how many auto makers today have the coded ignition chip in the keys now? Even though they could still open up your door, gain access to your trunk, steal your tools, laptops, and what not, and walk away slowly and no one will question, is that really his car he taking stuff out of. No forced entry, wear some gloves, heh, your just not getting your stuff back dude, go have fun with the insurance and your lost property.

Doofy · Jan 21, 2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by IFLY2HIGH

Even though they could still open up your door, gain access to your trunk, steal your tools, laptops, and what not, and walk away slowly and no one will question, is that really his car he taking stuff out of. No forced entry, wear some gloves, heh, your just not getting your stuff back dude, go have fun with the insurance and your lost property.

Yep, good luck with the insurance company on that getting reimbursed for stolen contents in that scenario.

hart · Jan 21, 2007, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I personally expect a key to be more than 1 in 15 unique.

from my point of view, every reasonably occupied parking lot seems to have several visible duplicates of my car so I agree.

I went up the block to move my car Thursday and had to pass 3 other red grand caravans within a block and a half of my house to get to my own car. That's not very good odds.

I guess I'm just lucky my car is usually filled with crushed children's snacks instead of valuables.

analogika · Jan 21, 2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by IFLY2HIGH

So if you were smart, a crook can open up your car, steal all your valuables and walk off with them. They had a key, no one is gona question, is that his car? Someone walks up with a brick, puts it though your window, opens the door, guess he's breaking and entering, we need to call the police.

Well, the actual scenario is more like: A crook will wander around a parking lot, trying his key on about 25 cars, before finally opening one and sitting down in it like it's his.

Also, the ignition is far less susceptible to this phenomenon, so the likelihood of someone driving off with your car is very very slim.

As for insurance, the situation is exactly the same as when somebody breaks into your home without obvious traces (very common). You should always, um, make sure that there are visible traces of a break-in. Insurance companies make their living trying to **** you.

turtle777 · Jan 21, 2007, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by analogika;3276732[B

]You[/B] should always, um, make sure that there are visible traces of a break-in. Insurance companies make their living trying to **** you.

I hear you. That's exactly what you have to do. Even with your car, if something gets stolen, get your screwdriver and damage the lock. Then you'll get reimbursed.

-t