[alligator]

I will be buying my first piano shortly, and I'd like some advice. I am not accomplished at playing the piano, but I have taken lessons several times in my life. My last set of lessons was 10 years ago, so I'll need to start over again.

The piano will be used by my two boys (ages 6 and 7) as they progress through grade school, and by my wife (who will just play random songs from time to time).

What should I know before I purchase one? I'm obviously not considering a high end piano, but something decent that will last 20+ years. I plan to have it tuned once a year, and I'll maintain it properly. It must be an upright since a grand piano will not fit in my house.

Any thoughts?

[butterfly0fdoom]

Well, just get a good piano. Yamahas are good. Personally, I prefer Kawai pianos.


In my family, though, my dad opted to get a digital piano instead of an acoustic piano. It's all personal preference, though. Pretty useful, especially since ours, despite being about 13 years old, has MIDI input/output (and thus can be used with GarageBand). There's headphone jacks for when my parents want more silence, too.

[alligator]

I've thought about a digital piano, but there's something in me that just wants a classic piano. No electronics, just real wood.

[Eriamjh]

Real pianos need to be tuned. You can't beat their sound, but a keyboard is more flexible if you don't want something that sounds like a piano.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by alligator 

I've thought about a digital piano, but there's something in me that just wants a classic piano. No electronics, just real wood.

I know how you feel, but check out the digitals when you go shopping. The higher end models are not half bad.

[centerchannel68]

Get one on craigslist. They're given away quite regularly. My dad even scored a free baby grand from some UW school, because it needed to be refinished.

[macintologist]

While traditional pianos have a wonderful sound that cannot be replicated by a Clavinova, I would seriously consider a digital piano like others have suggested. You can use headphones when everyone else is trying to get some sleep, the kids will have tons of fun messing with the extra sounds and demos, and yes it can be interfaced to a computer. Just be open to it.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by butterfly0fdoom 

Yamahas are good.

Ugh! Not Yamaha. Pretty much any other reputable name brand is preferable to those. Sure, they feel and sound great when they're in the store... but they put some kind of coating on the hammers which makes the sound get really tinny, ugly, and harsh once they pick up a little age. Plus, they're expensive compared to other brands like Kawai which are usually better. Even Bostons, which are generally one of the more expensive brands, are sometimes found in a similar price range to Yamahas. Yamahas are better than the "cheap crap" pianos such as Samick, Wurlitzer, Young Chang, etc., but other than that, Yamaha == avoid.

Plus, you guys need to lay off this guy regarding the digital pianos - sure you don't have to tune them, but their sound is nowhere near a real piano, the feel and the action are not the same, there's no sympathetic vibrations of the strings so the harmonics are limited, etc. I've known people who got digital pianos because some salesman talked them into it, they took piano lessons, and then found they'd botch every recital they'd play because their fingers weren't used to the action of a real acoustic piano. The guy wants an acoustic - leave it be.

[vmarks]

I've been very happy with Samick.

It's at my brother's house, because he plays more than I do anymore, but it's been very very good for us. We got it with an action that feels very Germanic. I believe we bought the size M.

Pianos come in baby, S, M, L, and D. I've always smiled at the thought that D could stand for "Damn Large." The longer the strings and bigger the soundboard, the more surface to resonate.

I would be careful getting one from a university - they're beaten / played within an inch of their lives. There's also nothing wrong with taking a piano tuner you trust with you when you shop and having him check it out. If you're paying multiple thousands of dollars, paying the tuner to show up and give his advice is a worthy investment in making sure the money is well-spent.

[DKeithA]

One word: Bösendorfer.

[Dork.]

My wife plays piano, and before we got married, I had to find a good piano for her or else she refused to move in with me. But I was living in an apartment at the time, so we took a good, long look at digital pianos.

We ended up getting a Roland digital piano. Although it doesn't sound 100% like a real piano (You can especially tell the difference when holding a note for a period of time), it's good enough for practice. The action is very realistic (which is very important to her) and she is happy with it to this day. She has never had a problem transitioning from the Roland for practices to a real piano for performances. And now she can put headphones on and practice while our daughter is asleep (which is the only time we ever get free time nowadays.)

[shifuimam]

My mother has a Steinway that is really, really nice. It's an upright grand, so the strings are longer than a normal upright piano.

It's appreciated in value since she got it as a college graduation present in like 1975...it's worth over $20,000 now, I believe.

P.S. Unless you're planning on converting one of your boys into a concert pianist, I'd recommend getting a keyboard instead. It's must more functional - you can hook it up to your Mac to play around with music software, and you can do really cool stuff with them these days. My mom was going to major in piano at the IU school of music, which is why she wanted the piano in the first place. She's an excellent pianist...but if it's just for entertainment/fun/learning, a keyboard will probably be a better idea - and significantly cheaper.

[centerchannel68]

Plus you can hook up the keyboard to the mac and rock out in garageband or logic, maybe get a few synths and drum machines, who knows, maybe your offspring will be the next BT?

[nonhuman]

I'll second the Craigslist vote. I've seen a ton of free pianos on Craigslist lately. As long as you've got the means to move it or don't mind hiring a service, go for it. I'm considering doing the same.

[brassplayersrock²]

as a college student without much room, I prefer the keyboard route myself. only thing i did stupid was not check out the options. there ARE keyboards out there with weighted keys for a real piano feel; built in speakers (which I would of preferred so that i dont HAVE to hook it to my computer for sound production) so that you can play it anywhere. of course a headphone port.

now, as far as keyboards go, the price can be as cheap as possible, or as expensive due to type of keyboard. if you want a standard 49 key semi weighted keys, $100-$200 depending on manufacturer. then there are the big ones. full grand stage keyboards that are full piano range without having to press an octave key, 88 keys, and the price can get up towards $800 after tax that has all the bells and whistles, again depending on manufacturer.

good luck

-a

edit: be sure who ever is gunna play it plays on it before you buy. everyone is different on what they prefer playing on. for me a semi weighted key is what i like.

[Hugi]

Well, first question, how much are you willing to spend?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Ugh! Not Yamaha. Pretty much any other reputable name brand is preferable to those. Sure, they feel and sound great when they're in the store... but they put some kind of coating on the hammers which makes the sound get really tinny, ugly, and harsh once they pick up a little age. Plus, they're expensive compared to other brands like Kawai which are usually better. Even Bostons, which are generally one of the more expensive brands, are sometimes found in a similar price range to Yamahas. Yamahas are better than the "cheap crap" pianos such as Samick, Wurlitzer, Young Chang, etc., but other than that, Yamaha == avoid.

A friend of mine is a concert pianist. She likes Yamaha pianos. Even though she prefers Steinway, she likes Yamaha better than Kawai. My sister bought a baby grand. She also preferred the Yamahas, but got a Kawai because it was cheaper.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by DKeithA 

One word: Bösendorfer.

Well considering even the cheapest 130CL is around $38K that may be out of his price range. Very VERY nice pianos. I have seen Tori Amos play one and it sounded incredible.

I would also stay away from digital if you are serious about (re) learning the piano, at least in the beginning your sons should play on a piano with the proper action.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

P.S. Unless you're planning on converting one of your boys into a concert pianist, I'd recommend getting a keyboard instead. It's must more functional - you can hook it up to your Mac to play around with music software, and you can do really cool stuff with them these days.

No. Just don't.

You can't play a keyboard the same way you can play a piano. A keyboard is for flashy effects, and entering music into a computer for manipulation. It's not for sitting down and playing.

I'm not much of a pianist, but enjoy sitting down at a piano every so often. Now I'm at uni, I use the baby grand in the Chaplaincy, but at my parents' house we have an upright that they bought for my sister to learn on. We got it second hand for around £400, from a local music studio (where it had been used for examinations). It's not the best piano ever but for the price it's pretty damn decent. Try looking around for similar such deals, if you're after something cheap.

Amorya

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

I've been very happy with Samick.

It's at my brother's house, because he plays more than I do anymore, but it's been very very good for us. We got it with an action that feels very Germanic. I believe we bought the size M.

Pianos come in baby, S, M, L, and D. I've always smiled at the thought that D could stand for "Damn Large." The longer the strings and bigger the soundboard, the more surface to resonate.

I would be careful getting one from a university - they're beaten / played within an inch of their lives. There's also nothing wrong with taking a piano tuner you trust with you when you shop and having him check it out. If you're paying multiple thousands of dollars, paying the tuner to show up and give his advice is a worthy investment in making sure the money is well-spent.

I've played on lots of pianos manufactured by Samick (they make the actions for lots of the other cheap brands) and they tend to fall right apart. Lots of notes that won't sound, dampers that won't go back on the string so they resonate forever, etc. My parents actually used to have a Kohler & Campbell which I think was made by Samick. The tuner was always in there fixing stuff.

Originally Posted by DKeithA 

One word: Bösendorfer.

Heh, those things are so expensive that a Bösendorfer upright can cost as much as a Steinway grand!

Originally Posted by Eug 

A friend of mine is a concert pianist. She likes Yamaha pianos. Even though she prefers Steinway, she likes Yamaha better than Kawai. My sister bought a baby grand. She also preferred the Yamahas, but got a Kawai because it was cheaper.

I'm actually a piano student, and I rarely meet any other piano students that like Yamahas. I've also played on quite a few of them and they always have a tinny, harsh, ugly sound. Kawais aren't the best, either - that's Steinway. But I'd rather have a Kawai than a Yamaha.

[Hugi]

CharlesS, I'll have to disagree with you on the Yamahas. I have a 15 year old Yamaha U1, and I love it. Deeply. I don't think I've ever heard a piano that sounds as good. My music school also has several Yamahas (along with Kawais, Samicks and some lesser brands) and the Yamahas sound by far the best.

This is especially true when it comes to the baby grands, The C3 and C4 grands sound just amazing, Kawai always sounds a bit muddled to me in the lower registers.

I guess this is a matter of taste .

[funkboy]

I have enjoyed the Kawai.
I also say the electronic keyboard would be very nice. If you can buy a grand, then get a nice electronic keyboard with weighted keys. Of course, since your children are young, the best keyboard may be a very small one, with keys that are smaller than normal piano keys, because they will fit their hands better. I learned on a small keyboard when I was about their age, and looking back on it that really helped me learn.

Look for a small keyboard for their first piano. For yourself... get a nice grand, maybe a Kawai.

[alligator]

Hmm, good thoughts. I'm still leaning toward a real piano. I understand the benefits of an electric, but I would like to progress from an upright to a grand at some point.

My undergraduate institution was just named an all Steinway school, which I really enjoyed playing when I was there 10 years ago. Here's the article.

There's nothing like playing on a really good piano in a really nice setting. I'm thinking that maybe someday I'll be able to play some solos in church or at parties.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I'm actually a piano student, and I rarely meet any other piano students that like Yamahas. I've also played on quite a few of them and they always have a tinny, harsh, ugly sound. Kawais aren't the best, either - that's Steinway. But I'd rather have a Kawai than a Yamaha.

Well, she's no longer a student. FWIW, she has a Ph.D. in piano and is a professional concert pianist. I think she was specifically referring to concert grands, but I just present this as an opinion by someone also in the know who doesn't share your dislike of Yamahas.

[Blue Flame]

Try to find an old Baldwin upright. Rugged, sound great, and the best playability in my experience in the reasonable range. You should be able to find them used without problems.

[centerchannel68]

Craigslist dude. Seriously. You can get one for next to free. That way if your sons don't use it, you aren't out a few thousand dollars.

[imitchellg5]

I have a digital. I want a regular one instead. My first piano was an upright Baldwin. They sound beautiful and are fairly affordable. I take lessons on a Baldwin Grand right now. Expensive, but it will last 100 years at least.

[gnomexp]

If you're willing to get the piano tuned every 6 months to a year, Yamahas will work fine and still have a decent sound. The only wall piano I've really liked is a Steinway, however, and those are pricey as heck.

Just a note, get a real piano; don't go digital. Granted, there are some things that make digitals appealing, but there are some key flaws that can only be alleviated through money. One, you really need a full range of keys to play most any piece once you hit the intermediate level. Once your kids are past Kuhlau sonatinas, they will need every octave they can get, something that costs hundreds on a digital. Two, you can't achieve a goodly range of natural dynamics on a digital that can be reproduced, touch included, from piano to piano. This is crucially relevant if you or your children plan to play anywhere but your home or if they want to continue on to competitions. Finally, you can't make the notes on a digital sing; it's physically impossible. There are many underlying techniques to making a good sound on a piano (rotating the finger, firm but subtle keypresses, phrasing, etc.). These things will not be learned on a digital. If your kids don't learn how to play a real piano, the only thing they'll learn is how to bang keys, albeit with a range of dynamics. Learning on a real piano and transferring those skills to digital is practical and understandable, but you cannot learn an instrument through simulation.

I've studied piano for the past 13 years of my life and have played twice at Carnegie Hall. I own a Yamaha grand and have played on a wide range of wall and grand pianos, as well as digitals.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Ugh! Not Yamaha. Pretty much any other reputable name brand is preferable to those. Sure, they feel and sound great when they're in the store... but they put some kind of coating on the hammers which makes the sound get really tinny, ugly, and harsh once they pick up a little age.

No coating.

The felt used by Yamaha is specially hardened. You can just get a piano tuner to roughen the hammers up a little bit (they have a tool just for that purpose, as all hammers need to be roughened up a bit after a few decades to soften the sound).

The reason behind this is that it's very simple for a tuner to soften the sound, but it's impossible for him to make it sharper without actually re-doing the felt on ALL hammers.

That said, I'm still not particularly fond of Yamaha's sound.

Their mechanics, however, will last a lifetime.

They're very very good pianos.

And don't let anybody tell you that a digital piano is a good alternative. It's not, if you actually have the option of getting a real one.

A Sony Aibo robot does much of what a real dog does, and it's *so* practical. So what?

A real piano is a living, breathing instrument.

That said, for apartment buildings where playing late is not an option due to neighbour interference, the Yamaha SilentPiano is a great option - best of both worlds, switchable on demand, AND the digital piano actually has a playable keyboard, to boot.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Eug 

A friend of mine is a concert pianist. She likes Yamaha pianos. Even though she prefers Steinway, she likes Yamaha better than Kawai. My sister bought a baby grand. She also preferred the Yamahas, but got a Kawai because it was cheaper.

One of my piano teachers had a concert grand tailor-made for her by Yamaha in Hamamatsu. Ivory keys.

That was a magnificent piano. Wonderful action, and an immense, lush sound, but with real bite if you pushed it. Aah...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogika 

The reason behind this is that it's very simple for a tuner to soften the sound, but it's impossible for him to make it sharper without actually re-doing the felt on ALL hammers.

The hammers naturally get harder as the piano gets older, and consequently the sound gets sharper, so I don't see a reason to make the hammers really hard at the outset. Look at Steinways - they are one of, if not the most respected brand in pianos, and they use relatively soft hammers. When they're brand new, they tend to sound somewhat dull. Play on them for a while, though, and you end up with a beautiful sound. With just about every Yamaha I've ever played on that wasn't brand new, it sounded like you were hitting the keys with a sledgehammer, and it can be really frustrating if you're trying to get a quiet, delicate sound. For percussive, aggressive music that can be fine, but trying to play something like Brahms on a Yamaha makes me want to break things.

Yes, I know that the hammers can be voiced down. I'm sure that with proper maintenance, the harshness of the sound can be mitigated, but still... the fact is that I've only once played on a Yamaha and actually liked the sound, especially when compared to just about any other major brand.

[B Gallagher]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Plus you can hook up the keyboard to the mac and rock out in garageband or logic, maybe get a few synths and drum machines, who knows, maybe your offspring will be the next BT?

[birdman]

Wow, I guess my experience must be extremely limited, because I've had the exact opposite experience CharlesS has. Steinways I've played, both grand and upright, generally have a harsher attack and a more tinny sound that people like to claim is "clarity." Meanwhile, I love a Yamaha grand with its smoother, more mellow tone.

Or maybe I'm just playing the wrong pieces on them. Admittedly I'd probably want the Steinway if I were playing a work that was mostly staccato or I wanted those strong attacks. In my opinion, with a Steinway you're largely paying for the name, and frankly I've never played one that I would want to own, let alone record with. Incidentally, Lorie Line is a very successful pop pianist who uses a Yamaha grand at home as well as on her concert tours. Her first CD was recorded with a Steinway, and there's a very noticeable difference between that and her second album (again, harsh vs. mellow).

As far as the digital issue, I would stay away from that with kids around. From a practical standpoint, the real piano's hammers are going to put up with more abuse than the digital's contacts. But as others have said, it's best to learn the feel of a real piano first, then move to digital later if you need/want its capabilities.

And when you do, I very highly recommend the Yamaha S90 ES, which is what I bought this past year... for a mere $2100. But for me it was worth every penny. What an incredible sound! Eighty-eight keys and a nice action. Here's a clip of me playing the Theme from Prince of Tides (arranged by Lorie Line, coincidentally). Unlike other digitals, the S90 has three voices recorded for each note, so when you're playing softly, it doesn't merely decrease the volume; it's actually using the voice of a Yamaha grand being played softly. It's even better with stereo headphones. Unfortunately, I didn't have a stereo line when I recorded that clip, so it's just mono, but you get the idea. (One disadvantage to the S90 is that it's a "stage piano," and as such has no internal speakers; you have to use an amp or headphones.)

I'm sure I'll be ripped up one side and down the other for my statements on the Steinway/Yamaha issue but as I said, I may just have limited exposure; I'm just basing this on my own experiences with them, which is probably more limited than that of someone who's studying piano in college.

-birdman

[Railroader]

Another vote for Yamaha.

The Yamaha in our Church has an amazing sound. The local reseller refers people to us to hear it "in the wild".

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by birdman 

Wow, I guess my experience must be extremely limited

I'm guessing that's true, since you said this:

In my opinion, with a Steinway you're largely paying for the name

Um, no.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The hammers naturally get harder as the piano gets older, and consequently the sound gets sharper, so I don't see a reason to make the hammers really hard at the outset. Look at Steinways - they are one of, if not the most respected brand in pianos, and they use relatively soft hammers. When they're brand new, they tend to sound somewhat dull.

...which is why Yamaha makes it possible to have a brighter sound from the offset!

...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by birdman 

with a Steinway you're largely paying for the name

No.

Most definitely not.

A Steinway grand is worth every penny.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I've played on lots of pianos manufactured by Samick (they make the actions for lots of the other cheap brands) and they tend to fall right apart. Lots of notes that won't sound, dampers that won't go back on the string so they resonate forever, etc. My parents actually used to have a Kohler & Campbell which I think was made by Samick. The tuner was always in there fixing stuff.

Interesting. We've had/played ours since 1984. We haven't had that problem. Or any problems, really.

It just gets tuned, and not that frequently. We tuned it after moving it to my brother's place, and we tuned it again after he had the water leak in his house that changed humidity, and piano had to be moved around to redo the walls and floor after water leak (piano was fine.)

Maybe we got the one good one ever made? Maybe you've just had bad experiences?

And I would never take a piano off of craigslist - 'free' isn't free when you have to throw out your back / pay someone to move the thing, get it home, hire the tuner, and listen to the tuner tell you that the thing is so far beyond fixing that it needs to be junked - and then you re-list it on craigslist and hope to find someone who thinks they're getting a free deal? No.

The same is true of university pianos - they keep them until the tuner tells the school that they're shot, because as we know, schools don't just buy new pianos because they raised tuition.

[Eug]

My GF's mom just sold a Steinway baby grand. I can't even really play, since I was just learning and then quit because I didn't have the time, but had I had the room for it, I would have considered buying it. It was a very unusual light beige marbled colour, but gorgeous with apparently a nice sound. Extremely unusual, but in very good shape.

P.S. Re: Learning on a digital piano, from the perspective of a n00b - It seems to me some of the high end digital pianos are weighted nicely, but they still feel very different from a real piano, even to me. I had an el cheapo keyboard though when I was learning and it was amusing learning on that and then trying to play on a real piano. My keyboard is not weighted so when I went to my sis's place to play her Kawai grand, I would get almost NO sound. My touch was simply far too light.

OTOH, for me a real piano was completely impractical, since my neighbours would complain, I didn't have the room for it, and I wouldn't be able to get even a small upright up my stairs anyway. I also liked the idea of futzing around in music software, etc.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by birdman 

In my opinion, with a Steinway you're largely paying for the name, and frankly I've never played one that I would want to own, let alone record with.

Steinway & Sons - Steinway Pianos - The Artists

It appears that a large number of pros disagree with you on that. I'll admit that I wouldn't care much in this matter if it weren't for the fact that there's an 1892 Steinway grand in my wife's family that's due to wind up in our house soon. Needs some restorative work, but it's gorgeous.

[Doofy]

A real piano is not the best way to get kids into music - they'll get bored by only having one sound.

Doof's recommendation: A Roland Fantom X8.

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by alligator 

My undergraduate institution was just named an all Steinway school, which I really enjoyed playing when I was there 10 years ago. Here's the article.

*GASP* - Dude, you're a Gustie, too?! Cool! Now I know of, like, 5 of us on these forums!

[Oneota]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Doof's recommendation: A Roland Fantom X8.

I've got a Fantom X7 - they're not cheap (picked mine up on eBay for around $1900), but they've got a very above-average piano patch, that even simulates sympathetic vibrations. I almost wish I had gone for the X8, since it has a really good weighted keyboard, but I don't have room for that in my place, nor would I be able to fit it into the pit orchestras I play in.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

A real piano is not the best way to get kids into music - they'll get bored by only having one sound.

Doof's recommendation: A Roland Fantom X8.

While that's a cool keyboard, there's nothing like a real one.

A Yamaha SilentPiano or DisClavier gives you all: a REAL piano, a REAL piano keyboard, and MIDI, for connecting it to whatever synth/music software you might ever want to.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogika 

...which is why Yamaha makes it possible to have a brighter sound from the offset!

And a really ugly sound later on. If you're gonna buy a piano to last your whole lifetime, you want to think long term. It's not like it takes all that long, either - if you play a lot, that Steinway's sound is going to be a lot brighter within a year or two than it was when you bought it.

I'm cynical, but my gut instinct is that Yamaha is trying to make some extra cash off of customers who don't understand that a piano gets brighter after you start playing on it. "Ooh, this one sounds so bright in the store!" It's similar to the damn glossy screens on the laptops these days - they look so nice in the store, because you don't experience the sun shining on it in there.

I'll grant you the DisClavier point, though. For someone who needs that particular type of thing, a piano like that is a good choice (although I, personally, would be a little paranoid about breaking all that extra equipment in there when playing Prokofiev or Liszt).

BTW, what process does Yamaha use to harden the felt on their hammers? I had always heard that they applied hardening fluid to them.

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Interesting. We've had/played ours since 1984. We haven't had that problem. Or any problems, really.

It just gets tuned, and not that frequently. We tuned it after moving it to my brother's place, and we tuned it again after he had the water leak in his house that changed humidity, and piano had to be moved around to redo the walls and floor after water leak (piano was fine.)

Maybe we got the one good one ever made? Maybe you've just had bad experiences?

I dunno, it seems to depend on how hard you play them. I admit that I probably play a lot louder and aggressive music than a lot of people, which tends to put more stress on the action. However, sometimes I visit people who don't play much and who own the Korean-made pianos, and even then I can sometimes see a few notes with problems on them.

My old school where I went for undergrad also had a short-lived program where they rented some cheap pianos from a local dealer, to fill some empty practice rooms. They'd get a new piano, have it in the practice room for a year, then sell it and loan a new piano to the school. Some of the pianos were Wurlitzers (which I'm pretty sure were made by Samick) and Chickerings (which, I'm not sure if Samick makes, but I wouldn't be surprised). We absolutely destroyed those pianos. I doubt the dealer was able to sell them afterward without a huge discount. At one point I turned in a report of the problems on the Wurlitzer to the tuner, but there were so many keys with problems that I got sick of writing them all down on paper and started just getting a sheet of manuscript paper and notating the notes that didn't sound or which didn't dampen.

But those are just my anecdotal experiences. I admit I've never actually played on a Samick-branded Samick, only on others which outsource their production to Samick. Perhaps Samick is better with their own branded pianos than they are with the outsourcing jobs - but I doubt it. I just don't trust them.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

While that's a cool keyboard, there's nothing like a real one.

Yeah, I know. I'm thinking practicalities though.

I personally favour the Bösendorfer grand, but hey those things are kinda hard to move when the Mrs decides she wants to use the room to start a play group (or something).

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Re: Samick:

I dunno, it seems to depend on how hard you play them. I admit that I probably play a lot louder and aggressive music than a lot of people, which tends to put more stress on the action. However, sometimes I visit people who don't play much and who own the Korean-made pianos, and even then I can sometimes see a few notes with problems on them.

My brother plays a lot of Khatchaturian when he's angry, and I always favored Mussorgsky and Grieg. None of those are exactly like what we would characterize as consistently soft.

My old school where I went for undergrad also had a short-lived program where they rented some cheap pianos from a local dealer, to fill some empty practice rooms. They'd get a new piano, have it in the practice room for a year, then sell it and loan a new piano to the school. Some of the pianos were Wurlitzers (which I'm pretty sure were made by Samick) and Chickerings (which, I'm not sure if Samick makes, but I wouldn't be surprised). We absolutely destroyed those pianos. I doubt the dealer was able to sell them afterward without a huge discount. At one point I turned in a report of the problems on the Wurlitzer to the tuner, but there were so many keys with problems that I got sick of writing them all down on paper and started just getting a sheet of manuscript paper and notating the notes that didn't sound or which didn't dampen.

But those are just my anecdotal experiences. I admit I've never actually played on a Samick-branded Samick, only on others which outsource their production to Samick. Perhaps Samick is better with their own branded pianos than they are with the outsourcing jobs - but I doubt it. I just don't trust them.

My anecdotal experience is that we've had this piano for 23 years and beaten the heck out of it, and it has been trouble-free.

I wonder if he shouldn't hire a piano tuner to go shopping with him and tell him what he works on the most, what problems to expect with different pianos?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

I wonder if he shouldn't hire a piano tuner to go shopping with him and tell him what he works on the most, what problems to expect with different pianos?

That is the best advice:

Go for a used piano, and take along a piano tuner. He'll be well worth the money.

[alligator]

Well, we visited the local piano store today. Of all the pianos, we liked the Kawai K-3 48" Upright. Instead of the ebony color, we may go with a mahogany satin finish. It sounds excellent for an upright. We haven't made our final decision yet, but this looks like it had made our final list.

And yes Oneota, I'm a Gustie and proud of it. I wouldn't be where I am today without this school.

Now, everybody cover your ears in a about a week's time - that's when I'll start playing.

[flask]