[powerbook867]

Here's the article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17030672/

I work between 50-60 depending on what is going on that particular week. My job is very sales driven although I am not a sales person (I am a storage engineer). Lots of pressure, constant e-mail checking, trying to keep everybody happy. I'm not b!tching about it, I knew what I was getting when I signed on, but there are some weeks I think about what life is like working @ Taco Bell or Walmart.

Does anyone else out there feel just beat down by their job? What is it you do? How long can it keep going at this pace?

There are some days where I think I should sleep at my desk, but I am one of the lucky ones with a short commute.

[natural1]

I used to work those kind of hours and it sucked, big time. Burn out will come sooner or later - it's just a matter of time.

Now I work for a company that gives me 5 weeks paid time off per year and limits overtime to 2-4 hours a week. We are happy, productive and we stick around for years, so no employee turn-over expenses. The slave-driver mentality of many companies is actually counter-productive: Tired, pissed off and burnt-out employees make more mistakes and create more work for themselves, creating a vicious cycle of wasted time. Look at Europe - most people work less and make more money than in the US (we partner with several European companies).

Overtime and 'multi-tasking' are the death of the American workforce. Until we stop electing Republicans and Democrats, who *both* support big business in opposition to the workers, we'll all work more and make less. Hard working Americans die broke all the time.

[centerchannel68]

I'll never work those hours. I'd rather get paid LESS and work 30-40 hours a week. Preferably 35.

[monkeybrain]

70 hours? Crazy. I'm certainly glad Europe is gradually reducing work hours. Even if this means the economies are not as strong, it is more important; just think of the effects these very long work weeks are having on families, let alone health and happiness. I see it here in Taiwan too, a culture very centred around long working hours (partly Chinese tradition, and partly needed to achieve the huge growth and development the country has had in the last 30 years).

[mindwaves]

I will never work 70 hrs. If you think about it, a lot of it is wasted time such as extended lunches, coffee breaks, gossiping, etc.. I think most people who normally work a 40-hr week where I work at can accomplish the same stuff in 25 hrs if they actually tried a little harder.

[bstone]

Newly graduated doctors who are in residency work between 80 and 120 hours a week. There are rules limiting it to 80 hours, but they are regularly broken. The number of medical mistakes as a result of exhausted residents is sky high. The number of residents being injured/dying in car accidents on the way home is as well high.

The Resident Work Hour Issue

Sounds great, eh?

[wallinbl]

Even the 40 hour week is stretched when you think about it - add an hour for lunch every day, and you're at work 45 hours/week. Figure in your commute, and you're 50+ hours dedicated to work.

I used to bust my ass and work long hours, but when I had kids, I stopped. I leave at 4:00 every day with rare exception. I won't work on something at home until after the kids go to bed. I moved closer to where I work (and kids go to school and church, etc). I've also started making use of my vacation time (I never really used much).

The most important thing I did was to stop using my job and my work productivity as a factor in my view of self. Work is work and nothing more. I use it to get money and I don't let it impact any other part of my life anymore.

If it weren't for wanting to remain near friends and family, I'd be strongly interested in moving to a European country that worked fewer hours and had more vacation time.

[OldManMac]

The 40 hour week is disappaearing. When you have people in other countries who are willing to work for pennies and hour, or even per day, and an economy that is being globalized, the competition is going to get worse.

[ort888]

My free time is very valuable to me. Lack of overtime is one of the main reasons I'm staying at my current place of employment.

I've done the whole 80 hour workweek thing, it's not fun. My previous job had terrible crunch times where the entire staff would basically live at the office for months. It was horrible.

I'm never doing that again unless I'm paid ridiculously well, or it's for my own company.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'll never work those hours. I'd rather get paid LESS and work 30-40 hours a week. Preferably 35.

Same here. The most I will do a week is 45 hours as I am on Salary and don't get paid for overtime.

Not to mention when you are working 70 hours a week your life has become your job so unless I am getting paid next to nothing and have to work that many hours to survive I will never do it.

I remember when there was talk of a 4 day work week which I would totally be cool with even if it meant I got paid less.

[Railroader]

I like the number of hours a week I work now.

0.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm in the 50+ crowd. It's not fun... but I see it becoming the norm.

[dcmacdaddy]

Yeah, I feel ya.

My average work-day is 9.5 hours not including a 1.5 hour R/T commute. Add in another 5-10 hours per week of work at home--mostly e-mail and other correspondence--and I work 55-60 hours per week, every week.

Granted, I am in a new job and am a first-time manager but the bigger issue is the three guys under me need a fair bit of assistance. So, I spend a lot of my days doing a bit of their work so I can help explain stuff to them when problems arise. For well-paid government IT/AV Specialists their knowledge level can be rather disappointing at times.

Also, I am the first supervisor these guys have had in almost 7 years--They previously had been "supervised" by a satellite office 225+ miles away--so I am having to spend a lot of my oversight time just being present to act as a preventative to keep them from slacking off. (Would you work hard all day if your "boss" was in another state and checked in only a few times a week? Doubtful.)

Anyway, I knew all this going into my new job and projected I would need 6-9 months to completely re-build from the ground up this unit's IT operations--The AV support operations need some work but not as much. Right now it's looking like it will be 10 months before that is done. But, once that is done, I plan to spend a LOT less time at the office. With a newly re-built IT/AV operations my guys can work and learn while things sort of just hum along.

But regularly working long hours just sucks. I need to stay in this position for two years to earn my status as supervisor, but once that is done, I am gone from this job to go someplace else in the government . . . or someplace else altogether.

[Monique]

Where is it the standard?

I worked 37.5 hours a week and that is enough.

This reminds me of the movie Pirates of the Silicon Valley when Jobs was showing t-shirts to Gates about 90 hours a week and loving it and he told him that some of his employees were working longer hours.

How can you think when you work 10 plus hours a day.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I like the number of hours a week I work now.

0.

Concur.

[Rev-O]

By the time you toss in lunch and travel time, I'm at/going to/coming from work 50 hours a week. I work 40, and anything over is time and a half as pay or comp time. 2 weeks sick leave and (crosses fingers) if I make it to the end of the year I'll start getting 4 weeks paid vaca. It's not a bad gig, but I have put in 60 weeks repairing watermains breaks in subfreezing weather which is unpleasant. Putting in massive hours on heavy equipment starts to become rather dangerous: people start to space out and bad things can happen.
My time with my family is very important to me, I can't imagine working 70 hours a week and only seeing my wife a kid for a couple of hours at night. I imagine some careers lend themselves to long work weeks and to squeezing the employee. Years ago my wife was putting in 8 hours a day at the office and 4 hours a night at home in the mortgage field, which was insane. But that was the gig, if you wanted the job that was what was expected, and if you didn't like it you would be replaced. She has since become a full time parent and stopped doing that. The financial stresses of going single income were actually less than the marital stress we were going through with her working those hours.
Everyone I personally know who puts in the long hours with a family has a rough time. Either unhappy at home so they work, or they have to work so much they are unhappy at home. That sucks.

[SSharon]

This is all scaring me as I understand that once I am out of law school I will be working way more than the 40 work week I am accustomed to.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

This is all scaring me as I understand that once I am out of law school I will be working way more than the 40 work week I am accustomed to.

Only if you choose to. The more every just accepts that "that's how it is" the worse the problem gets. There are more jobs for attorneys than just being a junior in a firm working slave labor for the partners.

[zerostar]

I used to work 14hr days a lot back several years ago, I rarely work over 40 now but have some commute time.

I used to like working all those hours as it was fun and exciting to me, plus I was hourly and needed it at the time. Now I am salary so I am usually heading home around 5:15 or 5:30.

Been here 7 years and everyone has had the same shift as the division has become much more stable and profitable.

[Mastrap]

Most days I am at work from 8:30 in the morning until 6:00 - 6:30 in the evening. But then, I am one of the owners of the company and I love what I am doing so it doesn't bother me. I also have the freedom to take time off when I need it.

[::maroma::]

I am one of those people who believe that work is a means to an end, and not what makes my life worth living. I hate working overtime, but its part of my job. I try as hard as I can to keep work and home life separate. I also try as hard as I can to not let my job become my life, even though its close to being that right now. I work with a lot of people who are the opposite. Their job is their life, and everything else comes after, even their kids/family. Its sad to see when that happens.

What bothers me about these people is that working 50+ hours per week becomes a sort of badge of honor. Or something that separates the winners from the losers. A lot of times it feels as if people like me are being looked down upon by those that work the insane hours. They feel they are worth more than we are because of the amount of hours they work, or something. I can't really tell where they get their feeling of superiority, but its there. I can't tell you the number of times I'll be leaving work after working 9 hour or so, only to get dirty looks from those who decide to work 12+ that day.

But I've learned to ignore it. I still notice it but I try to just block it out. If my boss has a problem with me working the legal amount of hours they hired me at, then he can talk to me about it. But the attitude among many of my coworkers is that if you don't work 50+ hours per week, you are beneath them. Whatever, they'll all die at age 50 and I'll live to the ripe old age of 90.

[Railroader]

When I worked 3rd shift I worked 56 hours a week. 7 days at 8 hr./day. I did it to keep my sanity with the goofy sleep schedule 3rd shift causes. I figured it was better to go to work instead of staying awake at home. The weird thing was going to the bar at 7 am after work and watching the sun rise.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Concur.

The funny thing is that we'll probably get a few people wanting to argue with us about this.

[Zeeb]

This trend frightens me but it seems you have to work a minimum of 50 hours a week to avoid the "lazy"stigma. Once you are perceived that way you'll never get ahead. I used to work regular, 35 hours days at a job that went nowhere and was bored all the time. I finally got a new one which I haven't started yet and I'm afraid I'll be lucky if I don't log over 50 hours.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Only if you choose to. The more every just accepts that "that's how it is" the worse the problem gets. There are more jobs for attorneys than just being a junior in a firm working slave labor for the partners.

So where can I send my resume to? I like the sound of this.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

The funny thing is that we'll probably get a few people wanting to argue with us about this.

That you enjoy not working? I see no reason to doubt it.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

The funny thing is that we'll probably get a few people wanting to argue with us about this.

Let me be the first one, then. Working zero hours a week is fine, for a while. But it can get really boring, too. Probably less so for you, being married with children and thus always having something that needs to be done; but for a student (read: me), living in a city where I don’t know anyone and actually also have no school, not working quickly became an overrated joy. After about a year like that, I was happy to go to back to school and work when I came back to Copenhagen.



I’m currently far too busy, and I can’t say I much like it. Unfortunately (because of using up seven months of my government education grant money doing what I described in the previous paragraph in China, and also losing an extra year due to an idiotic rule that you have to write your Master in the same subject that you take your propaedeutic classes in, in order to get money for the time you’re taking your propaedeutics), I can’t afford not to work quite a lot at the moment. Also, my boyfriend is having trouble finding a job here (since he doesn’t speak Danish), so I’m sort of supporting two.

So, this semester I have 16 hours of lessons per week, I have two jobs (working about 30–35 hours per week put together), and I’m supposed to be writing my Bachelor thesis as well. I guess, if you count school and commute (I have 60–90 minutes’ commute to one of my work places), I work about a 70-hour week as well.

[israces]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

This is all scaring me as I understand that once I am out of law school I will be working way more than the 40 work week I am accustomed to.

When I was in-house, I worked 37.5 hour weeks, generally, total time. In private practice I average 40 hours a week, billable. Your billables are generally going to be 60-80% of your total time at work. The profession has a fairly steep learning curve. Welcome to the grind.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by natural1 

most people work less and make more money than in the US (we partner with several European companies).

Europeans, in no way, make more money than Americans. There's a reason Americans can afford giant SUVs and our poor are fat as all heck.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conten...alk_surowiecki

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I am one of those people who believe that work is a means to an end

Whatever, they'll all die at age 50 and I'll live to the ripe old age of 90.

And you will be broke. Social Security may not be there to bail you out so I hope you are paying the maximum amount into your 401K and you are not in any debt. If you can't say those things you can pretty much count on working past your retirement age.

The hours I put in don't bother me. I knew the workload and hours before I was hired and I knew it came with working for a firm of that caliber. They more than compensate me for the time and those hours aren't something that will go on into perpetuity.

If a below 40 hour per week job is allowing you to build up a huge personal savings then more power to you. If you are only a couple of paychecks away from being in trouble then you better rethink your strategy. I'd rather put the time in to my career for 10 years and then not have to worry about how I am going to pay for my unborn children's education, my mortgage, and having to work past the age of 60.

[residentEvil]

i'm paid salary; 37.5 hours a week (1/2 hour each day for lunch) for the "typical work week" of 40 hours.

however, my "typical work week" is usually 55-70 hours and i don't get paid overtime. i work almost every holiday and when the uni is closed (thanksgiving, xmas to new years, etc). i work a few hours each day on the weekend (from home though) and probably another 2 hours each night during the weeknight at home too. some weeks it is 90+ hours (like 2 weeks ago). we are understaffed and overworked and pressures are mounting every day.

on a good note, i put in 16% into my 401k and my employer matches 5%. not too bad.

i haven't worked a "typical work week" since i was a teenager and that was over 20 years ago. i had an hourly job...so working overtime meant more money. just didn't get that chance often.

[smacintush]

My hours alternate. I work 3 - 12 hour days on one week, 4 - 12 hours days the next. (which leaves me with 4 days off on the first week, and 3 the next)

I used to work a lot of overtime, 60 -84 hour weeks, but I stopped that several years ago.

My time is far more valuable to me than it is to them. They can't have it.

[olePigeon]

I work 30 hours a week and I'm very happy with it.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

And you will be broke. Social Security may not be there to bail you out so I hope you are paying the maximum amount into your 401K and you are not in any debt. If you can't say those things you can pretty much count on working past your retirement age.

The hours I put in don't bother me. I knew the workload and hours before I was hired and I knew it came with working for a firm of that caliber. They more than compensate me for the time and those hours aren't something that will go on into perpetuity.

If a below 40 hour per week job is allowing you to build up a huge personal savings then more power to you. If you are only a couple of paychecks away from being in trouble then you better rethink your strategy. I'd rather put the time in to my career for 10 years and then not have to worry about how I am going to pay for my unborn children's education, my mortgage, and having to work past the age of 60.

I guess it depends upon how you deal with stress. An 80 hour work week will destroy the health of some people but others thrive on it. If you're making a ton of money but slowly growing a nice round gut because you don't have time to exercise or eat properly than its likely all that money you've made will someday pay the doctor to unclog your veins. Those hours also affect your personal relationships. I guess if you're single and don't have a life than work away--it might be worth I don't know. Do it with the knowledge you wont ever get that time back.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Europeans, in no way, make more money than Americans. There's a reason Americans can afford giant SUVs and our poor are fat as all heck.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conten...alk_surowiecki

Comparatively, I used to earn a good deal more in Europe than I am now earning in Canada. However, due to lower taxation and lower cost of living, especially as far as real estate is concerned, we do come out ahead as far as our standard of living is concerned. As long as we don't travel to Europe, when the exchange rate instantly hits the bottom line.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Europeans, in no way, make more money than Americans. There's a reason Americans can afford giant SUVs and our poor are fat as all heck.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conten...alk_surowiecki

Agree with the SUV sentiment, but not the fatness. It's DIRT cheap to get fatty food here in the states: a double cheeseburger at mcdonalds is only $1. That's insane.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Agree with the SUV sentiment, but not the fatness. It's DIRT cheap to get fatty food here in the states: a double cheeseburger at mcdonalds is only $1. That's insane.

Yeah, I think that's a lot of the reason Americans are so fat — awful food is easy and cheap, while healthy good is rare and expensive.

[James L]

For me it is not the hours per week, but the number of days per week I go to work.

I work two 12 hour day shifts, and then 2 12 hour night shifts. We are usually late getting back to quarters 2 out of the 4 shifts due to late calls, so you can safely say I work at least 50 hours in 4 days.

But, then I get 4 days off, for a 4 on 4 off schedule. It also means I only have to get up early 2 out of every 8 days (I love sleeping in!).

When you factor in my holidays, it means that I go to work 160 days a year, and have about 200 days a year off. Sure I may work 14 hours on many of those shifts, but the time off makes it more than worthwhile.

Mind you, I sometimes work my second job on my days off which ruins it a bit... but that is by choice and not necessity.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

Europeans, in no way, make more money than Americans. There's a reason Americans can afford giant SUVs and our poor are fat as all heck.

The New Yorker : talk : content

Color me surprised that the New Yorker is available for free online.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Let me be the first one, then. Working zero hours a week is fine, for a while. But it can get really boring, too. Probably less so for you, being married with children and thus always having something that needs to be done; but for a student (read: me), living in a city where I don’t know anyone and actually also have no school, not working quickly became an overrated joy.

Volunteer. The world needs more help than it is getting. If you aren't working, then find a cause that means something to you and help them out. That's much more enjoyable than working.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Volunteer. The world needs more help than it is getting. If you aren't working, then find a cause that means something to you and help them out. That's much more enjoyable than working.

I think I described that situation rather poorly: that was me in 2004, living in Beijing.

As I said later on, nowadays, back in Denmark, I’m busier than I want to be.

[macroy]

Is this 70 hours in the office? I would never do that..... but I think I probably work almost 65 hours a week. That being doing something related to work (reading/writing emails, reports etc.). However, I would say I actually spend less time in the office these days.

And I would agree with many here that say a lot of time spent at the office isn't really "work".

[ldb73]

Funny reading this. I worked for a company in California that thought originally working 40 to 60 hours in a week was productive, Managers needed to be there for everything. Then they realized there was no work life balance and performance was not were they wanted it to be. It didnt leave others to be empowered to move further as well. So they came up with the concept (followed sort of by Europeans) that if you couldnt get your job done in 38-40 hours within that week you simply were not doing your job. You were not using your time wisely. And I agreed wholeheartly. I wanted to go home and be with my family.

Now I've moved to Colorado and the age old work to the bone for 50 hours to 60 hours is so engrained in the mentality. They pay significantly less, to the point it is degrading or insulting. Your exempt from overtime. Retail Management pays in some area's (western slope) mid 30's to mid 40's. But experience means nothing. Your new and you get base pay. So in the end the job you made in California that earned and income over 50k a year averaging out to $25 plus an hour is now a job that you work 60hours at an average wage of $11 an hour. If you live on the Western Slope of Colorado commuting is more than likely. I myself have to drive 80 miles a day (round trip) and have been offered positions of this nature. Its horrible, insulting and frankly is primitive. The idea of slave labor still exist in this state.

People should be able to balance their life, it makes their work environment more productive and less resentful. And to pay someone with experience near minimum is a joke. I didnt spend that last 20yrs of my life working to be going backwards when I should be in my prime paying years.

[mduell]

Not at my Fortune 10 employer.
Heck, if my group is averaging more than 15% overtime (6 hours/week/person), that's considered reason to hire another person.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by ldb73 

They pay significantly less, to the point it is degrading or insulting. Your exempt from overtime. Retail Management pays in some area's (western slope) mid 30's to mid 40's.

Not to be a dick, but you mean 'you're', not your. Why am I mentioning this? It's probably related to 'your' overall education..... and hence your position. You work RETAIL. It pays **** everywhere, because working retail doesn't really require much. A friendly attitude, and knowledge about what your selling. Big deal.

But experience means nothing. Your new and you get base pay.

Hey, you're right. Know why? Experience doesn't really affect the sales when working retail. Also, I'd give you base pay too, if you don't know the difference between 'your' and the contraction of 'you are'.

Its horrible, insulting and frankly is primitive.

Hence why nobody says, "I want to work retail when I grow up."

I didnt spend that last 20yrs of my life working to be going backwards when I should be in my prime paying years.

Except you were working retail. What did you expect to move up to? Retail is a dead end position. You're probably never going to become a regional manager, or anything like that. That means the last 20 years of your life were kinda wasted.

My advice? Quit your job. Work on a career. Seriously. I worked retail a few years ago, and I don't know how anybody over 25 does that for a living. Talk about brainless.

[ldb73]

Despite your articulate nature and your need to make one spelling error which I so appologize for in not proof reading. My statement was a mere example of how America is falling behind other Countries. That Americans were and are over worked and not compensated. This applies in all fields including yours.

It was not necessary for you to critize my life as you have absolutely no idea what my job status or education level is. To assume I lack an education is completely wrong. In addition it takes a little more skill then to smile and sell a product at retail, there is a whole other dynamic to Operations that does not deal with customers. It may not be OSX applications for building software but it is credible in it's own right.

With that, ego is not necessary, just because you spend more time on the net or staring at software it does not mean you have social skills. Learn to humble yourself. Its more attractive then to see a self concious man beat his chest to make himself seem better than others.

Last thing remember ,the Dot.com crash....I saw a lot of unemployed, bankrupt software developers who were begging for a minimum wage job. It can happen again.

[centerchannel68]

Dude. You capitalize random words. Anyway, I am not in the software field, nor am I saying I'm better than you. I'm just saying don't bitch about salaries and benefits if you're working retail. 16yr olds can work retail. Retail is basically fast food, only without the grease and deep fryers.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by ldb73 

Despite your articulate nature and your need to make one spelling error which I so appologize for in not proof reading. My statement was a mere example of how America is falling behind other Countries. That Americans were and are over worked and not compensated. This applies in all fields including yours.

It was not necessary for you to critize my life as you have absolutely no idea what my job status or education level is. To assume I lack an education is completely wrong. In addition it takes a little more skill then to smile and sell a product at retail, there is a whole other dynamic to Operations that does not deal with customers. It may not be OSX applications for building software but it is credible in it's own right.

With that, ego is not necessary, just because you spend more time on the net or staring at software it does not mean you have social skills. Learn to humble yourself. Its more attractive then to see a self concious man beat his chest to make himself seem better than others.

Last thing remember ,the Dot.com crash....I saw a lot of unemployed, bankrupt software developers who were begging for a minimum wage job. It can happen again.

Don't worry about Ca$h (that's the name everyone knows him by on here). He knows better than EVERYONE ELSE in the whole world about what real life is like and feels quite compelled to let everyone know that by pointing out minor flaws. (Although, possession of excellent spelling and grammar skills is an expectation on this board.)

As long as you can talk trash about the iPhone and complain when the latest cycle of hardware releases doesn't match you're* expectations, you'll be fine.



*That one is for you, Ca$h. Enjoy!

[mindwaves]

Keep it on topic.