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Rumor · Feb 23, 2007, 01:24 PM

Chimps make wood spears, kill smaller animals for food / Females described as problem-solvers in primate culture

Pretty amazing. Sign of evolution among chimps?

Peder Rice · Feb 23, 2007, 01:28 PM

Also likely the chimps observed humans using spears or other similar tools, or the chimps in this region (a possible birthplace of early man) have a higher cranial capacity than most other chimps in the area.

Very cool whatever the case. And please have a read of this related story.

climber · Feb 23, 2007, 01:29 PM

Time to insert photo from Planet of the Apes!

Dakar² · Feb 23, 2007, 01:29 PM

I saw this yesterday and was thinking it'd spur another evo debate on here.

Saetre · Feb 23, 2007, 01:32 PM

That is pretty cool. Chimps are cultural animals. This is a cultural innovation. I wonder how long it has existed. Perhaps it was once wide-spread and has since died out in most areas. Or maybe it is novel. Either way, very cool.

nonhuman · Feb 23, 2007, 01:51 PM

This was by far the coolest pice of news I've seen in a long time. My reaction when I saw the headline last night was basically just 'holy crap'. I really wish I knew more about chimpanzees and chimp societies, because from my perspective (more archaeological) this looks a lot like early man sorta stuff. Seems like a huge technological leap to me.

Peder Rice · Feb 23, 2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Saetre

That is pretty cool. Chimps are cultural animals. This is a cultural innovation. I wonder how long it has existed. Perhaps it was once wide-spread and has since died out in most areas. Or maybe it is novel. Either way, very cool.

Many primate populations have suffered dramatically in recent years and only now are they keenly observed. I'd say it's quite possible that they've been using tools as advanced as a spear for a very, very long time. But hey, maybe not, maybe it is new. That'd be really cool.

nonhuman · Feb 23, 2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Many primate populations have suffered dramatically in recent years and only now are they keenly observed. I'd say it's quite possible that they've been using tools as advanced as a spear for a very, very long time. But hey, maybe not, maybe it is new. That'd be really cool.

It's also possible that the increased pressure on this chimp society is what caused this leap forward in technology.

Either way, it shows a level of intelligence and abstraction in chips that we had previously thought existed only in humans (they aren't just picking up sticks and hitting things with them any more, they're actually shaping those sticks to better serve a specific purpose).

red rocket · Feb 24, 2007, 05:18 AM

"In a typical sequence, the animal would discover a deep hollow suitable for bush babies, which are nocturnal and weigh about half a pound. Then the chimp would break off a nearby branch -- on average about 2 feet long, but up to twice that length -- trim it, sharpen it with its teeth, and poke it repeatedly into the hollow at a rate of about one or two jabs per second."

centerchannel68 · Feb 24, 2007, 10:35 AM

I dig your sig.

residentEvil · Feb 24, 2007, 10:51 AM

i'm not trying to be smart ass but...

chimps have used tools every since i can remember. i see them do similar things on nature shows all the time. this isn't anything new. while i understand the entire opossible thumb problem they do use rocks and sticks as tools/weapons; they hold onto them like a little child with the "grip of death".

one of their favorite treats was these little bugs or ants; they used a stick in their nest; the bugs would be attracted to it. chimps pull the stick out and bam! buffet time!

Saetre · Feb 24, 2007, 11:05 AM

Read the article again. We are excited because they were found to manufacture complex tools. Striping the leaves off of a branch or wadding up some leaves is not nearly as impressive.

Also, chimps do have opposable thumbs...

residentEvil · Feb 24, 2007, 12:08 PM

ah, here is the skinny on the thumbs thing:

Source: Napier and Napier. The Natural History of the Primates. MIT Press, 1985.

There are four categories of thumb movements determined by the degree of independence of the thumb. They are:
1) Non-opposable thumbs. Examples: tarsiers, marmosets
2) Pseudo-opposable thumbs. Examples: all prosimians, Cebidae
3) Opposable thumbs. Examples: Old World monkeys, great apes, humans
4) Opposable, comparatively long thumbs. Examples: Hylobatidae

Old world =
Old World generally refers to monkeys of Africa and Asia; New World, to monkeys of the Americas. In Old World monkeys, the nostrils face downward and are narrow. New World monkeys have round nostrils facing to the side. The dental formula of the larger New World monkeys includes 3 premolars. Old World monkeys have 2. Old World primates are diurnal and generally larger than their New World counterparts. Many of the Old World monkeys are partly terrestrial. Old World monkeys also have flattened nails on their digits, and most have pads (ischial callosities) on their buttocks.

nredman · Feb 24, 2007, 12:27 PM

its all good

Eug · Feb 24, 2007, 01:45 PM

OldManMac · Feb 24, 2007, 03:18 PM

I heard that Bush is going to have a press conference Monday, announcing that chimps are actually being supplied with their sticks from Iran.

Rumor · Feb 24, 2007, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by residentEvil

i'm not trying to be smart ass but...

chimps have used tools every since i can remember. i see them do similar things on nature shows all the time. this isn't anything new. while i understand the entire opossible thumb problem they do use rocks and sticks as tools/weapons; they hold onto them like a little child with the "grip of death".

one of their favorite treats was these little bugs or ants; they used a stick in their nest; the bugs would be attracted to it. chimps pull the stick out and bam! buffet time!

Chimps and other primates have been using tools for quite sometime. This is the first documented case of them creating weapons though. They are actually sharpening the sticks into spears.

It's probably not too unlike what our ancestors did.

paul w · Feb 24, 2007, 05:04 PM

It'll be interesting to see if they make the leap to using them as weapons against one another.

el chupacabra · Feb 25, 2007, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by residentEvil

i'm not trying to be smart ass but...

chimps have used tools every since i can remember. i see them do similar things on nature shows all the time. this isn't anything new. while i understand the entire opossible thumb problem they do use rocks and sticks as tools/weapons; they hold onto them like a little child with the "grip of death".

one of their favorite treats was these little bugs or ants; they used a stick in their nest; the bugs would be attracted to it. chimps pull the stick out and bam! buffet time!

I agree; its new that the chimps are using these as weapons but primates all over have been seen using "tools". They've been seen using sticks to test the depth of water, banging rocks sticks into things etc.. It just depends what their environment is. My guess is at some time in their life or at some season there is a population explosion of bush babies hence a few of them found very quickly that it was probable they would get one if they stuck a stick in there, and taught it to the others. Since the article said it is rare to get something I'm guessing its just carried on culture.

In an experiment with crows researchers put bent pipe cleaners into 2 bird cages which had a bucket of food that could only be reached with the "hook".
After a while 1 crow figured out to use the hook to get the bucket. very quickly the 2nd crow grabbed the pipe cleaner and tried to get the bucket, instead she dropped it. She looked around and saw some pipe cleaners laying outside the cage. when the researcher saw her reaching for them he pushed it over to the crow who quickly bent it to a hook and got the bucket.

Heres a link that I think is related to the crow thing.
http://www.well.com/~bkoball/crowhook.pdf