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besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 12:17 AM

What do you guys think of the whole theory about how the relative anonymity of the internet inspires people to behave differently than they do in real life? Of the MacNNers you've met in real life, were you surprised by your first encounter?

I'm mostly unsure about the allure of an online disguise, but I do believe that many people in online communities such as this seem to strive for a higher status - a higher rank in the pecking order, perhaps even without realizing it. I've seen this in forum, I've seen this in IRC, I've observed it for years. People can't stand being wrong online, because somehow whether other people agree with them is very important. Of course, the same goes for real life too, although in real life it is much easier to simply avoid people we disagree with - we generally aren't so aggressive and confrontational in such an unrelenting way, in my opinion.

I have a theory that if you take the prize out of the picture, a much more civil community will develop as a result. People in here use the rules, their post counts, their ranking, their reputations, etc. as a means to further their cause - usually in proving to people that they are right about some issue. What would happen if there were no post counts, there were no rules, no hierarchy of people who are mods, people who are regular users, and basically everybody was on a level playing field and their status was solely determined by what people make of their posts? I believe that doing this would solve many problems, and create a much better environment... I believe taking away the prize would remove a lot of motivation for people to be obnoxious and persistent, as we'd all be equals as far as our capabilities and rankings, and being right wouldn't change this.

Do you agree?

marden · Mar 12, 2007, 12:29 AM

This is the essence of human interaction all done in proxy & microcosm. This is intense and has meaning in and of itself. But it also has meaning because thoughts formed, shaped or changed here can change real life outside of this arena.

Extremists use these venues as a battleground and they have real results.

Virtual community interactions can be meaningless or meaningful just like in real life.

Gossamer · Mar 12, 2007, 12:37 AM

I am better than this thread.
wink

Doofy · Mar 12, 2007, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you agree?

No. I think you're reading way too much into it all Bess. Do people actually care about post counts and the like?

macintologist · Mar 12, 2007, 12:42 AM

The only way that would work would be to have "secret" mods who ban asshole users behind the scenes.

Jawbone54 · Mar 12, 2007, 01:03 AM

MacNNers have met in real life?

Demonhood · Mar 12, 2007, 01:38 AM

i've met elzinat, juanvaldez, cheerios, daimoni, xi_hyperon, montanan, brien, mac-at-kearsarge, stogieman, philzilla and possibly a few others (all the macworlds kind of blur together at this point).
none of them seemed radically different than their online personas.

zro · Mar 12, 2007, 01:40 AM

It's called usenet and is no different. In some cases it's much worse.

Jawbone54 · Mar 12, 2007, 01:43 AM

I think my MacNN persona is a bit less jovial than my real self. Considering that I'm probably the only NW Louisiana resident on these boards, I'll probably never have anyone agree or disagree with that.

goMac · Mar 12, 2007, 01:46 AM

I'm not sure there is a pecking order in virtual communities, just a lot of people who think they are on top.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 01:55 AM

Sounds like Commie propaganda IMO.

PS: I don't see any post count on my post.

Apple Pro Underwear · Mar 12, 2007, 02:03 AM

I've met several MacNNers in real life. I think up to 4 or 5...

IMO, they acted exactly like they do here. Also, MacNN banished post counts right?

Gossamer · Mar 12, 2007, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Apple Pro Underwear

I've met several MacNNers in real life. I think up to 4 or 5...

IMO, they acted exactly like they do here. Also, MacNN banished post counts right?

Click on "View Public Profile" and it's there.

Peter · Mar 12, 2007, 03:17 AM

I've met some real arrogant nerds from irc and "IRL" they were really quiet, shy boring people.

Kevin · Mar 12, 2007, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by zro

It's called usenet and is no different. In some cases it's much worse.

BING!

Nothing would change. It's human nature.

I've been on IRC channels were there was no rules and everyone was a operator.

Same thing. It isn't rules or status that makes people act that way.

Doofy · Mar 12, 2007, 06:37 AM

I'm much more obnoxious in real life.

Big Mac · Mar 12, 2007, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you agree?

No. I think your view is a bit silly. I really don't care about post counts and ranks. I pay attention to the comments of mods and admins when it comes to forum administration, but other than that I view them as participants like everyone else. Those who are intimidated by such things are probably rather insecure and weak online and offline.

Kevin · Mar 12, 2007, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Those who are intimidated by such things are probably rather insecure and weak online and offline.

My feelings as well. Or maybe they have a problem with authority. Usually that stems from the above too.

Doofy · Mar 12, 2007, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

No. I think your view is a bit silly. I really don't care about post counts and ranks. I pay attention to the comments of mods and admins when it comes to forum administration, but other than that I view them as participants like everyone else. Those who are intimidated by such things are probably rather insecure and weak online and offline.

Oh I dunno... ...that "Peter" dude throws his weight around a bit. Like a big old rottweiler with menacing blue stars for teeth and stuff.

@ Pete

Timo · Mar 12, 2007, 07:04 AM

I think it's quite true that people say things here, behind a mask of (relative) obscurity, that they would not as readily say in person.

Nor would what passes as "debate" so often here pass IRL.

Peter · Mar 12, 2007, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Oh I dunno... ...that "Peter" dude throws his weight around a bit. Like a big old rottweiler with menacing blue stars for teeth and stuff.

@ Pete

just cos you're northern you think you're so tough...

wanna fight?

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 07:20 AM

In real life, I'm a 67 year-old obese asian woman.

Shamefully, I am no good at math.

Doofy · Mar 12, 2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Peter

wanna fight?

I'll telling on you! You'll be sorry!

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 07:23 AM

Break it up you two.

andi*pandi · Mar 12, 2007, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

What would happen if there were no post counts, there were no rules, no hierarchy of people who are mods, people who are regular users, and basically everybody was on a level playing field and their status was solely determined by what people make of their posts?

doing this either gets you Lord of the Flies (chaos) or Utopia (respectful community) depending on member subset and mindset, time of day, phase of moon, wind speed, medication regulation, and quantities of cheese available.

starman · Mar 12, 2007, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

MacNNers have met in real life?

Yup.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

MacNNers have met in real life?

And pressed charges.

starman · Mar 12, 2007, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

And pressed charges.

Yup.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Yup.

BTW, you're off probation now?

hart · Mar 12, 2007, 08:53 AM

I'm voting Lord of the Flies as the result.

I'm actually much more careful online. I chose my words much more carefully and am careful to be as polite as possible, partially because I hate having the Flame Squad jump all over me, altho really that's basically impossible if you participate at all around here.

I did keep the fact that I'm a grrl under wraps for a long time for that exact reason.

I do think that some of the participants around here go way overboard to prove their virtual superiority and in the end it's a bit pathetic she said permitting herself to go a bit out the bounds of total politeness for a sentence.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by hart

having the Flame Squad jump all over me, altho

I almost think that's on purpose.

starman · Mar 12, 2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

BTW, you're off probation now?

Yup. Did you get that restraining order I sent you?

hart · Mar 12, 2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

I almost think that's on purpose.

?? who's doing what on purpose? sorry, missed the jist of your reply.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 09:10 AM

I'm joking that the Flame Squad would jump all over you for that abbreviation.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Yup. Did you get that restraining order I sent you?

Yes. I'm walking without a limp now, though I still have your anvil and coconuts.

Gossamer · Mar 12, 2007, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by hart

?? who's doing what on purpose? sorry, missed the jist of your reply.

ugh. Get it?? Altho-ugh!

hart · Mar 12, 2007, 09:31 AM

"I'm joking that the Flame Squad would jump all over you for that abbreviation."

I guess I better get ready for it

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 11:32 AM

I think the anonymity of the internet makes a lot of people here say stupid **** they wouldn't say in real life, which annoys the crap out of me. I'm polite to most people in real life, because they aren't acting like retards. When people do act like retards, then I'm not very nice at all.

sek929 · Mar 12, 2007, 11:55 AM

This persona doesn't do me justice at all, since I am easily the coolest and most respected person in my city....it's just to bad that city is New Bedford...

besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No. I think you're reading way too much into it all Bess. Do people actually care about post counts and the like?

Some do, I've seen people get uppity about having their post count decreased, and I've seen many people mistreated because they are new and don't really know the score.

But it goes beyond post count and the like. People want to be right, because being right is valuable to them... Things like post count and rules and such seem to be manipulated and used as a tool to climb that social ladder.

People will always want to be right, myself included, but when you are left with nothing but the words you type, I think this changes the playing field a great deal.

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 12:33 PM

I would like to be wrong more often. Being wrong means I'm learning something new.

besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

No. I think your view is a bit silly. I really don't care about post counts and ranks. I pay attention to the comments of mods and admins when it comes to forum administration, but other than that I view them as participants like everyone else. Those who are intimidated by such things are probably rather insecure and weak online and offline.

Well, you must admit that many people here are greatly concerned with the rules, how they are enforced, what is defined as valid content, and bans and such, if not yourself?

besson3c · 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

doing this either gets you Lord of the Flies (chaos) or Utopia (respectful community) depending on member subset and mindset, time of day, phase of moon, wind speed, medication regulation, and quantities of cheese available.

I'm good at providing cheese!

I'm not sure if the pigs head on a stick thing would apply, because what would there be to dominate and control if all we were equipped with was our fingers and our keyboards, and our capabilities within the virtual community were identical? Sure, we'd get a lot of name calling and offensive stuff being flung around, but how far would these people get? It seems like all great leaders were either revolutionary thinkers, or very physically powerful. Within a virtual community like this, the physical power thing is not really an issue.

I do think this applies to real communities though.

besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by hart

I'm voting Lord of the Flies as the result.

I'm actually much more careful online. I chose my words much more carefully and am careful to be as polite as possible, partially because I hate having the Flame Squad jump all over me, altho really that's basically impossible if you participate at all around here.

I did keep the fact that I'm a grrl under wraps for a long time for that exact reason.

I do think that some of the participants around here go way overboard to prove their virtual superiority and in the end it's a bit pathetic she said permitting herself to go a bit out the bounds of total politeness for a sentence.

It's too bad not everybody is more careful like you are, because perhaps it is easier for writing to be misinterpreted than it is to be misinterpreted in real life relationships?

besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

I think the anonymity of the internet makes a lot of people here say stupid **** they wouldn't say in real life, which annoys the crap out of me. I'm polite to most people in real life, because they aren't acting like retards. When people do act like retards, then I'm not very nice at all.

I understand your frustrations with people that act like retards... I really do.. seriously, I've struggled with this in my real life, so I can empathize.

My advice to you is to not get emotionally invested in these sorts of situations. People are going to find new ways to disappoint all the time, this is non-stop. I bet since I typed this, somebody managed to swallow the bar of soap in their shower. However, it takes more energy to get worked up and intense about these sorts of situations than it does to simply walk away or find a way to remove yourself where possible.

I know that this is not always easy and possible, but... my unsolicited advice, I hope you don't mind hearing it!

Atomic Rooster · Mar 12, 2007, 03:08 PM

"The pecking order in virtual communities"

I'm one big pecker!

Timo · Mar 12, 2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

People are going to find new ways to disappoint all the time, this is non-stop.

quoted for truth

Kevin · Mar 12, 2007, 03:45 PM

Again usenet is like you refer to besson. And it's a mess.

besson3c · Mar 12, 2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

"The pecking order in virtual communities"

I'm one big pecker!

How did a woodpecker ever become slang for penis a anyway? I don't see the similarities... At least, my penis doesn't peck away at a tree all day looking for bugs to eat, I don't know about you guys.

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 04:56 PM

Yes but mine goes back and forth a lot very quickly. So I can see why people started calling it a pecker.