[passmaster16]

I've been using my DP 1.8 G5 for a few years now but with the move to intel, I've been debating on whether or not I should try to dump what I have now while it's still worth something or to simply ride it out until Apple completely drops support for PPC. With that being said, it seems to me that the move to intel gives us Core 2 Duo chips would allow Apple to bring a prosumer level machine to market. I think the new Mac Pros are awesome machines, but I have a hard time justifying spending $2k+ on a machine for server class hardware that I really don't need. And I'm sure most would say, why not an iMac? Well, I already have a 24" LCD so it seems that the iMac wouldn't do me much good besides the fact that I really don't care for all in one machines. Then there is the Mini which is a nice little machine but probably not enough power for what I do. I, like many fall in that area of somebody who does more than just web surfing and email but not to the extent of intensive number crunching, video editing, etc. This is exactly why I caved last time when I bought the G5 because at that time, the options were pretty much the same except there was no Mini. I guess I would just like to see Apple come out with something with specs of an iMac but in a tower design around a $1400-1700 price point. It seems like they went from offering a lower end workstation, recall the 1.6 single G5 for under $2k to moving the Mac Pros over the $2k barrier and using the iMac to fill the void.

I know that this has been an ongoing argument for a long time. It just gets a little frustrating for people like me who try to keep upgrading on a regular basis but eventually won't be able to because the price points don't really allow for that.

[smacintush]

Everybody seems to say unequivocally NO but I have yet to see any real reason why they won't.

We've got Windows capable Macs with Intel processors for ****s sake, like a prosumer model is such a ridiculous proposition. Whatever.

[mduell]

A single processor machine in an average tower is where all the competition is, so the margins are miserably low. Apple doesn't want to go there.

I'd pick up a refurb or used Mac Pro when you're ready to upgrade.

[vmarks]

Or grab a core solo mini and upgrade the processor to the 2.33 c2d. Of course, you'd still have the integrated graphics and laptop hard drive (unless you ran the sata cable outside to a full-size 3.5 drive instead.)

I guess it partially depends on what you want to do, and how 'pro' prosumer is to you.

[RAILhead]

I don't think there will ever be one outside of the iMac -- there's n reason for Apple to do anything else.

[mac128k-1984]

While I'd like to see such a model, I think at the 1500 to 1700 price point it would cannibalize the iMac sales. I'm sure the folks at apple have looked at this issue and have not considered it a hole in their lineup.

The iMac price range is $999 to $2000 (stock)
The Macpro from 2500 and up

If you were to position a tower (or headless iMac if you will) at a price point in the middle of the iMac prices it will hurt the iMac sales. Conversely if you're looking for a Mac with some expandability and you can get that for around 1500 to 1700 that will bite into the Macpro sales. I don't see how Apple can offer of a mac that sits in-between both lines and not impact those same lines.

If you recall before Steve re-appeared at apple they had a confusing array of Macintoshs so much so that it confused and impacted there sales. One of the first things that his Stevieness did (when he returned) was to stream line the offering. I think your still seeing that philosophy.

[analogika]

There is not that much performance difference between the Mac mini and the iMac - except for the graphics card and the laptop drive in the mini.

[centerchannel68]

24" iMac with 7600GT is a prosumer level machine. The end.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

24" iMac with 7600GT is a prosumer level machine. The end.

At a premium price point with a permanently attached $500 monitor and effectively unupgradeable graphics. That's not "prosumer" in my book.

[Thorzdad]

I would wager that Apple have done their research and come to the conclusion that a true prosumer kit would cannibalize sales from both ends of the current spectrum. I know many designers (mostly freelancers) who would gladly jump at the opportunity to buy a lower-cost Mac that would still run their professional apps.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by passmaster16 

And I'm sure most would say, why not an iMac? Well, I already have a 24" LCD so it seems that the iMac wouldn't do me much good besides the fact that I really don't care for all in one machines.

Don't overlook the fact that you can use your existing LCD as a second monitor on the iMac. That alone will make you more productive, regardless of the upgrade in speed.

For the kind of specs you're looking for, and the work you do (as you've described it) the iMac looks to me like the best fit.

Just out of curiosity, what have you upgraded on your DP 1.8 G5? Because unless you actually intend on upgrading your video card, I don't see how the iMac would be a step down from your G5.

[Buckaroo]

Keep using your machine for another year, then sell it on ebay for approx. $900 and use that money towards your new machine.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by mduell 

At a premium price point with a permanently attached $500 monitor and effectively unupgradeable graphics. That's not "prosumer" in my book.

$2000 total is not a bad price for what you get. 24" widescreen, remote, frontrow, 250 gig hard drive, 1 gig ram, 2.33ghz core2duo, and 7600GT. It's a great system. I'm sorry if it's not prosumer in your opinion, but in the rest of the world it is.

[Buckaroo]

The price of the Dual 2.0 Ghz Pro is $2200. If you can get a student or employee discount, you can probably get it for $2k.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

$2000 total is not a bad price for what you get. 24" widescreen, remote, frontrow, 250 gig hard drive, 1 gig ram, 2.33ghz core2duo, and 7600GT. It's a great system. I'm sorry if it's not prosumer in your opinion, but in the rest of the world it is.

It's not a good price to start with, and the upgradeability is limited and/or expensive (no PCIe, laptop sized memory, single hard drive, slimline optical, etc) compared to other systems with the same hardware. That adds up to a poor value for prosumers in my opinion.

The iMac is great for users where the Mac mini is too limited, like my parents, but let's not kid ourselves and call it prosumer.

Refurb PowerMacs and Mac Pros are good prosumer systems.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

The price of the Dual 2.0 Ghz Pro is $2200. If you can get a student or employee discount, you can probably get it for $2k.

With no screen whatsoever, a crappy graphics card, and no frontrow.

[Eriamjh]

The correct answer to your question is "No one effing knows."

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by mduell 

It's not a good price to start with, and the upgradeability is limited and/or expensive (no PCIe, laptop sized memory, single hard drive, slimline optical, etc) compared to other systems with the same hardware. That adds up to a poor value for prosumers in my opinion.

They hold their value well.... the hard drive is upgradeable, so's the optical drive, the ram, and eventually even the graphics card is upgradable. Technically it is NOW, if you have the crappy card, you can upgrade to the 7600GT if you get an apple tech to order the replacement part.

If you want to talk about poor value, let's bring up the $2000+ mac pro that includes a crap videocard, and crap options, and in order to make it a decent mac pro system, you're going to need to spend over THREE GRAND on the whole thing. So that's not very prosumer. The 24" iMac beats the MacPro with the base videocard pretty badly in many games also.

Refurb PowerMacs and Mac Pros are good prosumer systems.

If you have lots and lots of money. Me? I'll just use my faster than a macpro top of the line iMac for a year or two, sell it for $1500, and buy another one.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

They hold their value well.... the hard drive is upgradeable, so's the optical drive, the ram, and eventually even the graphics card is upgradable. Technically it is NOW, if you have the crappy card, you can upgrade to the 7600GT if you get an apple tech to order the replacement part.

If you want to talk about poor value, let's bring up the $2000+ mac pro that includes a crap videocard, and crap options, and in order to make it a decent mac pro system, you're going to need to spend over THREE GRAND on the whole thing. So that's not very prosumer. The 24" iMac beats the MacPro with the base videocard pretty badly in many games also.

I didn't say those components weren't upgradeable. I said the upgradeability is limited and/or expensive, which it is.
Graphics: Limited to 2 low-end to mid-range cards, no high performance options, high price for what you get
Memory: Limited to 2 slots, requires more expensive SO-DIMMs, 3GB ceiling
Hard drive: Only one hard drive bay
Optical: Slimline drives means fewer options and higher prices
Add-ons: Must be USB/FW, no PCIe or ExpressCard, which limits options/increases price/reduces performance
These are limitations that do not exist on $1500-2000 prosumer systems from other OEMs or the pro desktops from Apple.

Note I said refurb for the Mac Pro and PowerMac. For $350-400 gross ($200-300 net) you can buy a graphics card for the MP/PM that kicks the pants out of the iMac graphics options in terms of performance and cannot be rivaled by the iMac for any price.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I'll just use my faster than a macpro top of the line iMac for a year or two, sell it for $1500, and buy another one.

How do you figure it's faster?

[centerchannel68]

iMac Core 2 Duo - High Rez gaming

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I didn't say those components weren't upgradeable. I said the upgradeability is limited and/or expensive, which it is.
Graphics: Limited to 2 low-end to mid-range cards, no high performance options, high price for what you get
Memory: Limited to 2 slots, requires more expensive SO-DIMMs, 3GB ceiling
Hard drive: Only one hard drive bay
Optical: Slimline drives means fewer options and higher prices
Add-ons: Must be USB/FW, no PCIe or ExpressCard, which limits options/increases price/reduces performance
These are limitations that do not exist on $1500-2000 prosumer systems from other OEMs or the pro desktops from Apple.

Note I said refurb for the Mac Pro and PowerMac. For $350-400 gross ($200-300 net) you can buy a graphics card for the MP/PM that kicks the pants out of the iMac graphics options in terms of performance and cannot be rivaled by the iMac for any price.

Sure. But on that same token, the mac pro is also limited, especially by budget:

Graphics: Ships with crap. The upgrade to the next higher card is quite a bit of money, over the already really expensive $2000 baseprice.
Memory: Ships with crap, same as iMac
Hard drive: Ships with a 250 gig drive. Anything more costs even more.

Basically, the 24" iMac outperforms the BASE mac pro.... and you're saying that in order to turn the MacPro into a 'prosumer', you have all these add on options... which also makes it WAY WAY WAY WAY more expensive than the 24" iMac, and it still hasn't even included an LCD.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by mduell 

but let's not kid ourselves and call it prosumer.

An iMac can very comfortably run all of the Pro apps like Final Cut Pro (with a FW HD of course) Motion, DVD Studio Pro, Photoshop, Aperture, Flash, InDesign, etc etc. The iMac can run professional applications without major limitation, therefore it fits the definition of prosumer.

The fact that it lacks certain hardware upgradability is meaningless, it's not meant to have the same upgradability as a MacPro.

[Mastrap]

The iMac is as prosumer as they come, at least in my book. We use them at work for studio work and they perform flawlessly. For the money they rock.

[centerchannel68]

Exactly. And to me, prosumer means high performance without totally buttraping your bank account.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

$2000 total is not a bad price for what you get. 24" widescreen, remote, frontrow, 250 gig hard drive, 1 gig ram, 2.33ghz core2duo, and 7600GT. It's a great system. I'm sorry if it's not prosumer in your opinion, but in the rest of the world it is.

The rest of the 2% of the market that makes up the Mac world, you mean? Because in the other 98% of the world, an AIO machine with a permanently attached screen with a laptop processor, laptop RAM, a laptop optical drive, a non-upgradable laptop GPU, and no internal expansion is not prosumer.

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

They hold their value well.... the hard drive is upgradeable, so's the optical drive, the ram, and eventually even the graphics card is upgradable.

Ever tried to get one of those things open? The internals are not accessible without major surgery.

And the GPU is not upgradable - the MXM slot is for Apple's convenience only, to let them offer a few BTO configurations. Good luck finding a third-party MXM card - and even if they do start selling them, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd still have to get one specifically designed for the iMac thanks to space/heat issues, like with the Cube.

If you want to talk about poor value, let's bring up the $2000+ mac pro that includes a crap videocard, and crap options, and in order to make it a decent mac pro system, you're going to need to spend over THREE GRAND on the whole thing. So that's not very prosumer. The 24" iMac beats the MacPro with the base videocard pretty badly in many games also.

Yeah, the Mac Pro isn't prosumer. Neither is the iMac. Hence the thread topic.

[Eug]

And I'm sure most would say, why not an iMac? Well, I already have a 24" LCD so it seems that the iMac wouldn't do me much good besides the fact that I really don't care for all in one machines.

Dual monitor goodness, with DVI desktop spanning.

If I had more room, I would buy a second 24" monitor to go with my iMac 24".

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

iMac Core 2 Duo - High Rez gaming

It could be that I still suck at reading graphs, but as far as I could tell the MP was faster in every test (with the Radeon card. No, a better graphics card stock does not mean faster by any means). And no, the MP does not have the same crappy laptop RAM and chipset as the iMac, so it's not limited to 3GB total and $600 2GB chips.

[passmaster16]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The rest of the 2% of the market that makes up the Mac world, you mean? Because in the other 98% of the world, an AIO machine with a permanently attached screen with a laptop processor, laptop RAM, a laptop optical drive, a non-upgradable laptop GPU, and no internal expansion is not prosumer.

Ever tried to get one of those things open? The internals are not accessible without major surgery.

And the GPU is not upgradable - the MXM slot is for Apple's convenience only, to let them offer a few BTO configurations. Good luck finding a third-party MXM card - and even if they do start selling them, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd still have to get one specifically designed for the iMac thanks to space/heat issues, like with the Cube.

Yeah, the Mac Pro isn't prosumer. Neither is the iMac. Hence the thread topic.

Yes this is my feeling about the iMac. I just don't care for all in one systems. I don't like the fact that it uses laptop Ram, GPU is not upgradable, and the other things that you mention. And while I probably wouldn't mind the extra screen real estate with putting a 24" iMac next to my 24" LCD, it just seems like overkill for me. The Mini has similar issues with an onboard video card, and laptop hard disk. Right now my dual G5 has 1.5 GB of RAM and a Radeon 9600 Pro 64MB. I may upgrade it, but I'm not sure if it is even worth it. While I think PPC will be supported for quite a bit longer, I think that its inevitable that apps will begin to be optimized towards x86. I know some on here mention that PPC is a dying architecture, and I think that's true. This is what spurred my whole thought process about a machine that would be on the level of an iMac but without the built in LCD.

I think that Apple is missing the boat on a true prosumer level system that is not an all in one. I would not argue against the fact that the iMac is prosumer grade. Sure it can run most apps flawlessly but that fact that I'd be paying more for a monitor I don't need without much room for legitimate expansion is a dealbreaker. If they put the same specs into a tower design, I'd be all over it. I don't see how that would cannibalize iMac sales. Sure you may have a few iMac buyers opt for the headless system, but the majority of people would go with the AIO unless they already owned a large LCD. I come from a PC background, and while I love the Apple design, I expect the system to be upgradable with standard components, not laptop parts. So at this point, I guess my best bet is to wait for a refurb Mac Pro if I'm looking for a tower form factor that has some upgradability.

[ort888]

I wish they would make something like the Mini, but rather then focus on making it tiny, focused on making it a better value.

Was the world really demanding a computer that size? What is the point? Make it three times as big give it standard desktop components, rather then laptop parts shoehorned into a tiny box.

[Chuckit]

I have a vague feeling we might actually get a prosumer-level system soon. The utter lack of any significant changes to the product line for a while make it seem like Apple must be cooking up something. And the fact that Time Machine wants you to have two hard drives really makes me go hmm.

[iREZ]

owning a monitor is a lame excuse for not buying an imac. imacs are great machines and as prosumer as youre gonna get. a mid tower would be nice, but the imac is doing just fine imho.

[Chuckit]

A toaster is not prosumer. Some degree of customizability is necessary.

[OwlBoy]

Cube 2.0 please.

-Owl

[Visnaut]

Everyone has different definitions of what prosumer means, it seems.

I just get the feeling that the "headless iMac" everyone wants was what Apple intended to give people with the Mac mini. I seriously don't think they're going to muddy their product line and price points with yet another product.

Think of it this way: Apple makes two photo storage and organization programs. iPhoto and Aperture. Either complete novice or complete pro. iLife or Final Cut Studio is another example (Final Cut Express being the obvious exception). That's Apple's product line philosophy in a nutshell, and why I don't think we'll see a prosumer machine in the foreseeable future.

I hope I'm wrong though, as it seems there would be a healthy market for these things.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by iREZ 

owning a monitor is a lame excuse for not buying an imac. imacs are great machines and as prosumer as youre gonna get. a mid tower would be nice, but the imac is doing just fine imho.

They are very nice machines that represent fine values, but they just are not going to appeal to those who want a headless prosumer computer. Those are two different markets.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And the GPU is not upgradable - the MXM slot is for Apple's convenience only, to let them offer a few BTO configurations. Good luck finding a third-party MXM card - and even if they do start selling them, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd still have to get one specifically designed for the iMac thanks to space/heat issues, like with the Cube.

If NewerTech, Sonnet, et al want to update their business model from the dying G4 CPU upgrade market, they should start selling MXM video cards. I think that'd be a good idea.

[iRish1978]

Why the hell does the mac mini have to SO mini. Apple needs to modifty the mac mini to allow for a GPU upgrade and a few other up grade options. this would be killer. I think intagrated graphics need to go away all together.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And the GPU is not upgradable - the MXM slot is for Apple's convenience only, to let them offer a few BTO configurations. Good luck finding a third-party MXM card - and even if they do start selling them, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you'd still have to get one specifically designed for the iMac thanks to space/heat issues, like with the Cube.

Has it even been confirmed that the MXM-like slot in the 24" iMac is actually an MXM slot?

Last time I went looking, the general consensus was that the slot was physically MXM, maybe electrically MXM, but not logically MXM. Quanta did the same thing with some of their systems, and IIRC Quanta is the ODM for the iMac.

FWIW, the Wikipedia says the graphics slot in the iMac is not MXM compatible.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by iRish1978 

Why the hell does the mac mini have to SO mini. Apple needs to modifty the mac mini to allow for a GPU upgrade and a few other up grade options. this would be killer. I think intagrated graphics need to go away all together.

Indeed. A mac mini with just a PCIX slot or whatever the current one is would be fantastic, as I could replace the optical drive and laptop hard drive myself. But alas... the only way to get a DECENT graphics card is to get a 24" iMac or spend a buttload on a mac pro.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Has it even been confirmed that the MXM-like slot in the 24" iMac is actually an MXM slot?

Last time I went looking, the general consensus was that the slot was physically MXM, maybe electrically MXM, but not logically MXM. Quanta did the same thing with some of their systems, and IIRC Quanta is the ODM for the iMac.

FWIW, the Wikipedia says the graphics slot in the iMac is not MXM compatible.

Doesn't matter. That's how Sonnet and friends make money off upgrades.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I have a vague feeling we might actually get a prosumer-level system soon. The utter lack of any significant changes to the product line for a while make it seem like Apple must be cooking up something. And the fact that Time Machine wants you to have two hard drives really makes me go hmm.

It does, but I still don't think the iMac is gonna get a second hard drive bay. It would be nice though, considering then it would be easier for me to run BootCamp. Right now having Windows + OS X + data partition is not an easy thing on one drive for n00bs like me.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Has it even been confirmed that the MXM-like slot in the 24" iMac is actually an MXM slot?

Last time I went looking, the general consensus was that the slot was physically MXM, maybe electrically MXM, but not logically MXM. Quanta did the same thing with some of their systems, and IIRC Quanta is the ODM for the iMac.

FWIW, the Wikipedia says the graphics slot in the iMac is not MXM compatible.

Yes, it's MXM. There's a guy who swapped to an Nvidea 7900GT? super fast card, from a PC laptop, and it would not work in OSX, but it WOULD work if he booted into windows.

Here: http://www.mxm-upgrade.com/

Please try not to spread false information. It's 100% mxm.... the issue about upgrading is whether apple makes drivers for it, or if OSX allows the computer to boot with a videocard that doesn't have apple's super fancy EFI bios in it, or whatever it's called.

[mduell]

Good to know.

Unfortunately pretty much useless until one of the Mac upgrade players gets in the market. Or the entire PC industry moves to EFI (I won't hold my breath).

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Yes, it's MXM. There's a guy who swapped to an Nvidea 7900GT? super fast card, from a PC laptop, and it would not work in OSX, but it WOULD work if he booted into windows.

Here: All about MXM

Please try not to spread false information. It's 100% mxm.... the issue about upgrading is whether apple makes drivers for it, or if OSX allows the computer to boot with a videocard that doesn't have apple's super fancy EFI bios in it, or whatever it's called.

Um, did you even read the site you linked to? They even say Apple's slot is NOT MXM. Look at this page. The table on that page says, under iMac 24", correct form factor, no compatibility. Then it links to this page, where if you scroll down to "Apple?" it says, "Apple joins the rank of Quanta: looks great, but offers no compatibility. The 24" iMac uses a card that is based on the MXM formfactor but offers no compatibility. A reader of MXM Upgrade has tried several MXM cards in his Apple, including a reference 6200 card MXM Upgrade has send him, and none of those worked. If we are correctly informed, this comes from an incompatible vBios and this behavious was also seen in the past with incompatible AGP cards."

Edit: Oh, I read the forum too, there's only one person posting that it works under Bootcamp and not under OS X, but there's no confirmation from anyone else that that's the case.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Um, did you even read the site you linked to? They even say Apple's slot is NOT MXM. Look at this page. The table on that page says, under iMac 24", correct form factor, no compatibility. Then it links to this page, where if you scroll down to "Apple?" it says, "Apple joins the rank of Quanta: looks great, but offers no compatibility. The 24" iMac uses a card that is based on the MXM formfactor but offers no compatibility. A reader of MXM Upgrade has tried several MXM cards in his Apple, including a reference 6200 card MXM Upgrade has send him, and none of those worked. If we are correctly informed, this comes from an incompatible vBios and this behavious was also seen in the past with incompatible AGP cards."

Edit: Oh, I read the forum too, there's only one person posting that it works under Bootcamp and not under OS X, but there's no confirmation from anyone else that that's the case.

Whatever dude, you can believe whatever you want. I was the first person to modify the original iMac by swapping daughtercards to gain a 333mhz G3 on a rev A motherboard so I could use the 8 meg Gamewizard. I also own the most heavily modified original iMac on earth. I keep up to date on iMac upgrades, and I'm guessing I probably know a BIT more than you about this subject. But go ahead. Believe whatever you feel like. It IS an MXM card. The reason that other cards won't show up in OSX is because of apple's goofy EFI roms. But hey, if you don't believe me, go post over at http://strangedogs.proboards40.com. They're the place that flashes PC videocards to macs, so they know what they're talking about.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Um, did you even read the site you linked to? They even say Apple's slot is NOT MXM. Look at this page. The table on that page says, under iMac 24", correct form factor, no compatibility. Then it links to this page, where if you scroll down to "Apple?" it says, [I]"Apple joins the rank of Quanta: looks great, but offers no compatibility. The 24" iMac uses a card that is based on the MXM formfactor but offers no compatibility.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6636341.html

"First, Apple confirmed for us that the new 24-inch iMac does use Nvidia's MXM mobile graphics chip interface,"

http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...y_upgradeable/

"he new 24-inch iMac”: you can replace the video card thanks to the system’s MXM PCI Express connector. "

http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/s...rticleID=14624

"24" iMac owners were the first to use a new technology from Nvidia called MXM"

Again, the only thing different is the EFI Bios, and MAYBE the chip that the bios is stored on. In AGP cards, PCs used a smaller bios, and macs used a slightly bigger one, so you had to remove the memory chip off the graphics card, swap it to a slightly bigger one, and then flash it with a mac rom. In time, people will be able to do the same for these fancy EFI cards.

[G4ME]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Whatever dude, you can believe whatever you want. I was the first person to modify the original iMac by swapping daughtercards to gain a 333mhz G3 on a rev A motherboard so I could use the 8 meg Gamewizard. I also own the most heavily modified original iMac on earth.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Whatever dude, you can believe whatever you want. I was the first person to modify the original iMac by swapping daughtercards to gain a 333mhz G3 on a rev A motherboard so I could use the 8 meg Gamewizard. I also own the most heavily modified original iMac on earth. I keep up to date on iMac upgrades, and I'm guessing I probably know a BIT more than you about this subject.

I'm not disputing any of that.

The first link you posted said the slot wasn't MXM and that the cards they tested didn't work. You should have either read that site and realized it did not support your argument, or posted the other links in the first place.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by G4ME 

I'm guessing that's sarcasm OMG TRIBAL DECALS FTW

[mitchell_pgh]

IMHO, presumer devices aren't "all in one" units.

While I like the iMac, I HATE the idea of having my monitor physically connected to the computer (I always have).

Back in the G4 era, you could get a tower for $1400 which was the low end CPU, usually single CPU, lower end graphics card, smaller HD, etc. In fact, I paid $1299 for a PowerMac G4 733mhz that has been upgraded numerous time.

I guess I'm still looking for the $1400-$1600 Mac Pro.