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Atheist · Apr 24, 2007, 04:59 PM

Sex ID: Brotherly Love
Older brothers and the odds of being gay. For answers, have a look in the womb.

While some scientists search frantically for "gay" genes, a University of Toronto researcher has discovered a hitherto unsuspected contributor to male sexual orientation: having lots of older brothers.

Interesting theory. I've got 3 older brothers (all straight) and I'm gay. Anyone else?

Gossamer · Apr 24, 2007, 05:06 PM

No brothers, two sisters, middle child, straight.* depending on who you ask.

Dakarʒ · Apr 24, 2007, 05:07 PM

Yes, I've heard of this. It's an interesting argument for evolution trying to prevent overpopulation.

Atomic Rooster · Apr 24, 2007, 07:29 PM

Five older brothers. I'm sixth and straight. But I am a sex maniac. I think because I was breast fed.

ghporter · Apr 24, 2007, 07:49 PM

Nope. Didn't happen. Next question?

Oh, and I was bottle fed and I qualify as a maniac too.

peeb · Apr 24, 2007, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Yes, I've heard of this. It's an interesting argument for evolution trying to prevent overpopulation.

It's been a while since my biology classes, but I don't understand how that argument would work. You're saying that there would be a selective pressure for a gene that only affected younger siblings with older brothers? I don't think so...

Montezuma58 · Apr 24, 2007, 08:09 PM

My wife's cousin is gay. He is the youngest of four brothers.

The theory seems plausible. There is definitely something about having a male child that can affect the fetal development of subsequent children. Miscarriage rates are higher after a mother has a male child.

torsoboy · Apr 24, 2007, 09:08 PM

I am the second of six brothers... none gay.

memory-minus · Apr 24, 2007, 09:15 PM

Eldest of 3, one brother and one sister. I'm gay, siblings are straight.

design219 · Apr 24, 2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Yes, I've heard of this. It's an interesting argument for evolution trying to prevent overpopulation.

Originally Posted by peeb

It's been a while since my biology classes, but I don't understand how that argument would work. You're saying that there would be a selective pressure for a gene that only affected younger siblings with older brothers? I don't think so...

Evolutions has created many techniques for regulating population, including frogs that can change their sex when there is a need. This would have to be among the most elaborate, but it would work.

I have a friend who is gay and the youngest of six with two older brothers. The siblings are all straight. Not surprisingly, he is the only one without offspring.

Railroader · Apr 24, 2007, 09:30 PM

I am the youngest, but there's only two of us, and my older brother isn't gay.

There's only one gay relative that I know of. My dad's sister had a sex change and became my dad's brother. He[she] is married.

Mithras · Apr 24, 2007, 11:16 PM

The best way to settle this issue is clearly with a sample of about 12 carefully controlled Mac users.

natnabour · Apr 24, 2007, 11:42 PM

hmmm. i'm not sure of this older brother theory, but I did always think it was genetics. I know a family where the eldest is a female (gay), second eldest is a male (gay), and they have three younger siblings (sexual orientation not yet discovered, as they are too young ).

Kerrigan · Apr 25, 2007, 01:09 AM

Actually the Jewish media made me gay, via television programs such as "The Real World" and "Sesame Street".

Gossamer · Apr 25, 2007, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Actually the Jewish media made me gay, via television programs such as "The Real World" and "Sesame Street".

Bert and Ernie? Complete homos.

Angus_D · Apr 25, 2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Bert and Ernie? Complete homos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TeNdsoCIgc

Gossamer · Apr 25, 2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Angus_D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TeNdsoCIgc

I was hoping for this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVqSaJqkTPo

Dakarʒ · Apr 25, 2007, 09:11 AM

One of them better be Family Guy.

Big Mac · 10:05 AM

I doubt this claim has much statistical support. Large families with many sons used to be much more common. Farm families are still large. Orthodox rabbis have many sons (on average). Mormon families have many sons on average. I don't see any greater incidence of homosexuality in any of those examples.

Gossamer · Apr 25, 2007, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I was hoping for this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVqSaJqkTPo

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

One of them better be Family Guy.

Bingo.

peeb · Apr 25, 2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Mithras

The best way to settle this issue is clearly with a sample of about 12 carefully controlled Mac users.

LOL!

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 25, 2007, 10:02 AM

I'm the older brother and the gay one. My sister is straight.

kmkkid · Apr 25, 2007, 10:51 AM

I'm an only child and gay.

My bf is the youngest of 3 brothers and gay.

Most of my gay friends are the oldest brother.

All over the map.

Jawbone54 · Apr 25, 2007, 11:05 AM

I'm the youngest of 3, one brother, one sister...all straight.

I have a gay cousin who is the middle child of three (all guys), and my wife's uncle is gay (youngest of two boys).

I've never heard of this before.

Millennium · Apr 25, 2007, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

It's been a while since my biology classes, but I don't understand how that argument would work. You're saying that there would be a selective pressure for a gene that only affected younger siblings with older brothers? I don't think so...

I tend to agree with you, which is why I suspect this theory to be loudly denounced in the gay community: it points to a case where the "gay gene" theory doesn't hold.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 25, 2007, 11:30 AM

To be honest most gay people I know are always the oldest of the siblings.

kmkkid · Apr 25, 2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

I tend to agree with you, which is why I suspect this theory to be loudly denounced in the gay community: it points to a case where the "gay gene" theory doesn't hold.

It'll be denounced by anyone with any amount of brains, because it's total BS

Dakarʒ · Apr 25, 2007, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

It's been a while since my biology classes, but I don't understand how that argument would work. You're saying that there would be a selective pressure for a gene that only affected younger siblings with older brothers? I don't think so...

I'm not saying anything for or against it. Just putting it out there.

Rumor · Apr 25, 2007, 02:41 PM

My father was the middle of three boys and gay.

His widower was the second youngest of six boys. Also, the oldest brother was gay.

Jawbone54 · Apr 25, 2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

My father was the middle of three boys and gay.

His widower was the second youngest of six boys. Also, the oldest brother was gay.

In Northern LA?

Rumor · Apr 25, 2007, 04:26 PM

My dad was from LA. His husband is from Nor Cal.

Gossamer · Apr 25, 2007, 04:37 PM

LA the state or LA the city in Cali?

Rumor · Apr 25, 2007, 04:42 PM

State.

Kerrigan · Apr 25, 2007, 04:51 PM

This isn't supposed to be a politically inflammatory comment, so try not to take it that way -- but I've noticed that among conservatives and religious types, homosexuality is thought to be lying just beneath the surface. It's something within all of us that can be triggered by bad decisions, media influences, moral decay, etc. In other words, everyone is at significant risk of becoming gay if they make a false step, and yet homosexuality is supposed to be so alien and contrary to nature. A weird paradox.

Kevin · Apr 26, 2007, 01:36 PM

Boy this "evolution" is sure smart. Like it was a thinking entity.

kmkkid · Apr 26, 2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Boy this "evolution" is sure smart. Like it was a thinking entity.

The theory sounds plausible that cells can remember these things and change accordingly, however, statistics will kill this particular theory.

Dakarʒ · Apr 26, 2007, 01:50 PM

Maybe in the dissenting cases, there was marijuana use, resulting in memory-loss for the cells involved.

kmkkid · Apr 26, 2007, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

Maybe in the dissenting cases, there was marijuana use, resulting in memory-loss for the cells involved.

Or maybe there were multiple unknown miscarriages beforehand, all male fetuses of course

Allowing for multiple older siblings unbeknownst to anyone else.

Dakarʒ · Apr 26, 2007, 02:06 PM

That's a theory for a completely different situation than the one I'm trying to explain.

But I like it.

Jawbone54 · Apr 26, 2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

My dad was from LA. His husband is from Nor Cal.

Knowing this region, I'd say your dad probably had a hard time.

Kevin · Apr 26, 2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by kmkkid

The theory sounds plausible that cells can remember these things and change accordingly, however, statistics will kill this particular theory.

Wasn't meaning for my post to be taken seriously....

nredman · Apr 26, 2007, 08:15 PM

2 older sisters - straight

malvolio · Apr 27, 2007, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

This isn't supposed to be a politically inflammatory comment, so try not to take it that way -- but I've noticed that among conservatives and religious types, homosexuality is thought to be lying just beneath the surface. It's something within all of us that can be triggered by bad decisions, media influences, moral decay, etc. In other words, everyone is at significant risk of becoming gay if they make a false step, and yet homosexuality is supposed to be so alien and contrary to nature. A weird paradox.

It probably arises in part because many extreme homophobes are deeply closeted, self-denying gays. For them, it really is lying beneath the surface.
As for the role of genetics in gender identity, just remember these words of wisdom:
"Heredity means if your grandfather didn't have any children and your father didn't have any children, then you won't have any, either."