[macgeek2005]

Hey everyone. This summer i'm gonna be filming my first short film, and I have the Sony TRV-950, which is a decent camera, but I don't have any external mic's yet, and the internal one is simply unusable.

I found an extremely helpful thread over at dvinfo.net, however I'm still not clear on what I need besides a shotgun mic.

I'm looking at getting this: Studio 1 Productions XLR-BP3 Pro - Belt Clip XLR Adapter with

And this:

Azden SGM-2X - Omni/Supercardioid Mic

However, from the pictures, I'm not too certain on how the shotgun mic connects to the camera, or to the XLR box. Can someone clear me up on that?

So, i'm aware that the shotgun mic is what I would hang from the ceiling or something, over the actors, and it'll pick up the sound nicely, however, I know that people use other mic's besides shotgun mic's, so for that i'd just want a normal, high quality, stereo mic. I'm guessing I would just be looking for any regular XLR mic, right?

Thanks for any help!

[macgeek2005]

Anybody??

[nerd]

You'll want the XLR adapter that you can put on your belt. Having big adapters hanging off the camera would suck. As far as the mic I don't have any experience with it but you should be fine. I would get a wind sock to go over it, without it you'll probably be picking up unwanted wind noise.

That shotgun would hook up to your XLR adapter box with a regular F-M XLR cable. I work in TV, not film, so they might do things different but if you're wanting any kind of stereo mix you'd be doing that in post. The shotgun mic is a mono mic as well as most other mics. Don't quote me on it though.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by nerd 

You'll want the XLR adapter that you can put on your belt. Having big adapters hanging off the camera would suck. As far as the mic I don't have any experience with it but you should be fine. I would get a wind sock to go over it, without it you'll probably be picking up unwanted wind noise.

That shotgun would hook up to your XLR adapter box with a regular F-M XLR cable. I work in TV, not film, so they might do things different but if you're wanting any kind of stereo mix you'd be doing that in post. The shotgun mic is a mono mic as well as most other mics. Don't quote me on it though.

That XLR adapter does hook on the belt I think. Anyways, It's funny, I do have a little shotgun/zoom mic that attaches to the top of my camera, and it picks up sound real good, but it's left channel only, and I always thought that was a really bad thing, but maybe it's actually a useable mic.

My only question: What do you mean "If you're wanting any kind of stereo mix you'd be doing that in post"? I don't think I need stereo sound right now. I mean, mono sound still plays out of both speakers of a speaker system when you play it back, it's just that the sound is identical out of both speakers, right?

Edit: I just did some testing with my shotgun mic, and when playing it on my computer, it does indeed play ONLY out of the left channel speakers. So I don't get it. If every shotgun mic is like that, how do they use them? Surprisingly enough, the built in mic proved to give better sound quality than either of the settings on my external mic. I guess the XLR adapter, and some good stereo mic's are what I need.

[- - e r i k - -]

Pan the left channel so that it plays out both. That's how mono recordings are done. If you record with two mics they usually get alternately L and R of a stereo track.

[nerd]

yea, I should have said that. In News we shoot talent/anchor tracks on channel 1 (left) and natural sound on channel 2 (right). We keep the 2 tracks separate until we go to air and then it gets mono summed on the audio console.

Do what erik says, you'll have your one channel of audio on tape and in FCP or whatever you're using pan it to the center so it's mono.

[macgeek2005]

So in FCP i'll be able to take the audio track and pan it to the center so it playes equally out both speakers?

Now all I have to do is learn how to use FCP. haha.

Thanks.

[imitchellg5]

Give yourself plenty of time for Final Cut. It's easy to drown in its coolness and go off on a tangent playing around with features.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Give yourself plenty of time for Final Cut. It's easy to drown in its coolness and go off on a tangent playing around with features.

All I really need it for is editing video, and audio, and adding titles and stuff. I'm not making professional films or anything, I just like the freedom that FCP gives. I have yet to learn how to use it. I don't even understand AT ALL how it works right now. I think i'm gonna have a guy who knows the program, come up and teach it to me in person. SO much better than reading the manual.

[imitchellg5]

Good idea. I learned mainly by watching pros use it. And the manual is not very helpful.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005 

All I really need it for is editing video, and audio, and adding titles and stuff. I'm not making professional films or anything, I just like the freedom that FCP gives. I have yet to learn how to use it. I don't even understand AT ALL how it works right now. I think i'm gonna have a guy who knows the program, come up and teach it to me in person. SO much better than reading the manual.

If you live near an Apple store, I'd recommend checking out their schedule to see if they have any free FCP classes coming up. If not, and you have $100 to spare if you're serious about this, I'd take my footage etc. up to an apple store and try out the one to one program they have.

[macgeek2005]

Well, I don't live near an apple store unfortunetaly. But there is a guy on my island who knows how to use the program, and i'm gonna call him up and ask him if he'd tutor me privately.

I have one last question about the mic's. I'm definitely buying that XLR adapter, and that Azden SGM-2X Shotgun mic. From that one review I see there, I think the shotgun mic is all i'm gonna need for now. However, i'm definitely gonna need a stand for it, or some sort of thing to mount it on. I remember seeing a behind the scenes feature on filming The Fountain, and this guy was holding this long rod with a shotgun mic attached to the end of it, and he was holding it above the actor, from a distance of like, 10 feet or something. I'm gonna need a way to mount it like that, or on a stand or something. I'll also need a wind sock. Where do I get one of those? And are some better than others?

Thanks!

[Railroader]

Your lucky your thread wasn't instantly moved to the graveyard forum called "Consumer Hardware & Components" like my thread was. That forum is a killer on threads.

[Veltliner]

Regarding the mic, I can recommend the SENNHEISER ME-66.

This is a fantastic microphone, great quality, an enthusiast's tool. Azden's are not bad, but a friend of mine saved money and bought one, and later switched to Sennheiser.

Plus: terrific industrial design.

It has professionalquality XLR connectors, but there is an adapter you can use.

If you buy one, buy the one with a battery compartment. Otherwise, you can only run it with phantom power (powered by the camcorder), which is very limiting.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

If you live near an Apple store, I'd recommend checking out their schedule to see if they have any free FCP classes coming up. If not, and you have $100 to spare if you're serious about this, I'd take my footage etc. up to an apple store and try out the one to one program they have.

I can recommend the following book from Peach Press: FINAL CUT PRO, by Lisa Brenneis.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005 

So, i'm aware that the shotgun mic is what I would hang from the ceiling or something, over the actors, and it'll pick up the sound nicely, however...

It doesn't hang from the ceiling. It's mounted to a BOOM POLE.

(This is why you need a mic with independent battery power)

[nerd]

You need to connect the mic to the camera to record plus recording on the camera will keep your audio and video in sync.

The mic needs some kind of power. Phantom power is power provided on the XLR connector. Some adapters take batteries for this reason but in your case it looks like this one doesn't so you'll use the battery in the mic. If you camera had XLR connectors then there would more the likely be a phantom power switch for the mic where you could turn on/off the mic power. It really doesn't matter how you power the mic just as long as it has power.

Phantom power is really a convenience thing so you don't have to change batteries in a mic all the time.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

It doesn't hang from the ceiling. It's mounted to a BOOM POLE.

(This is why you need a mic with independent battery power)

But if the Mic isn't physically connected to the camera, what does it record the audio to? And where do I get a Boom Pole?

[nerd]

You need to connect the mic to the camera to record plus recording on the camera will keep your audio and video in sync.

The mic needs some kind of power. Phantom power is power provided on the XLR connector. Some adapters take batteries for this reason but in your case it looks like this one doesn't so you'll use the battery in the mic. If you camera had XLR connectors then there would more the likely be a phantom power switch for the mic where you could turn on/off the mic power. It really doesn't matter how you power the mic just as long as it has power.

Phantom power is really a convenience thing so you don't have to change batteries in a mic all the time.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by nerd 

You need to connect the mic to the camera to record plus recording on the camera will keep your audio and video in sync.

The mic needs some kind of power. Phantom power is power provided on the XLR connector. Some adapters take batteries for this reason but in your case it looks like this one doesn't so you'll use the battery in the mic. If you camera had XLR connectors then there would more the likely be a phantom power switch for the mic where you could turn on/off the mic power. It really doesn't matter how you power the mic just as long as it has power.

Phantom power is really a convenience thing so you don't have to change batteries in a mic all the time.

So, i'd prefer to have an XLR adapter that has Phantom Power. I don't wanna have to switch batteries all the time. Are you sure the one I linked to doesn't have Phantom Power?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005 

But if the Mic isn't physically connected to the camera, what does it record the audio to? And where do I get a Boom Pole?

I don't think your tr950 has XLR connectors. You usually find those on higher end camcorders (2500$ plus, approx.)

A microphone can be attached to a camcorder via a shock mount (rubber straps around mic, then to a frame, which is mounted on the camcorder) so no vibrations of the tape drive and other mechanical operations (like you operating switches) will be recorded.

Second on a BOOM POLE, at the end of the pole in a shock mount again, or you'll hear every move the boom operator does. You get boom poles at any bigger store that sells upscale video gear (not at Best Buy, Circuit City and the like, you need a good dealer) or on the web. Google it. B&H is a good source with fair prices, knowledgeable people, and they are reliable.

Both times a cable goes from the mic to the XLR (or to the XLR adapter and from there to the mini connector (in your case)).

As your camcorder does not have XLR, you will depend on a battery in the mic - no phantom power.

A battery can last for two years, even with regular use.

For basics about filmmaking and video: there are tons of books out there and I'd recommend you buying one.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I don't think your tr950 has XLR connectors. You usually find those on higher end camcorders (2500$ plus, approx.)

A microphone can be attached to a camcorder via a shock mount (rubber straps around mic, then to a frame, which is mounted on the camcorder) so no vibrations of the tape drive and other mechanical operations (like you operating switches) will be recorded.

Second on a BOOM POLE, at the end of the pole in a shock mount again, or you'll hear every move the boom operator does. You get boom poles at any bigger store that sells upscale video gear (not at Best Buy, Circuit City and the like, you need a good dealer) or on the web. Google it. B&H is a good source with fair prices, knowledgeable people, and they are reliable.

Both times a cable goes from the mic to the XLR (or to the XLR adapter and from there to the mini connector (in your case)).

As your camcorder does not have XLR, you will depend on a battery in the mic - no phantom power.

A battery can last for two years, even with regular use.

For basics about filmmaking and video: there are tons of books out there and I'd recommend you buying one.

Thanks Veltliner. I'll be buying the XLR adapter, the Azden mic (It looks great, and sennheiser is too expensive for me right now), and a boom pole. I assume the mic comes with a shock mount?

In terms of a book, can you recommend one? I need a book that will teach me the very basics. Simply, how to shoot a scene, and edit it. At this point, I'm not even clear on exactly how one goes about doing that. So I just need a book that teaches how it works, and what are the most convenient ways of achieving the different angles in a scene, audio syncing, etc.

Thanks!

edit: Could you also suggest a boom pole? I'm looking on b&h and i'm getting REALLY confused. There's so many of them! And some of them are over $1000! Can a boom pole stand on it's own? Or does someone need to be holding it, positioned over the actors? You know what I need it for, so just recommend the cheapest one that'll do what I need.

Thank you so much.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by macgeek2005 

Thanks Veltliner. I'll be buying the XLR adapter, the Azden mic (It looks great, and sennheiser is too expensive for me right now), and a boom pole. I assume the mic comes with a shock mount?

1. A microphone never comes with a shock mount. That's extra. And don't buzy cheap garbage. A good one costs around 50$.

2. I can't recommend a book, as I have been with film for a while, and have not read any of the introductory books. Best solution for you: take some time off, go into a book store, and read, read, read. Buy what you like most. Be wary of those books with the breezy language, that say "it's all so easy". Get a book about the basics of screenwriting, too, as these things belong together.

3. Boom Pole: you are right, there are so many. But you will see that a boom pole should not be more expensive than the camera, so nix with the 1000 dollar thing. I suggest calling B&H, and when you order, let the sales rep recommend you something. Tell him what you need it for. Those guys there are no cheap pushers.

4. There is a good forum for digital video: http://www.pana3ccduser.com/ . It's not only about Panasonic, and you can ask about everything: camcorder, shock mount, battery, charger, cables, lights, boom poles...

[macgeek2005]

Well, i've changed my mind a little bit. I don't need all this fancy stuff, because right now i'm gonna be focusing more on learning how to make films, not how to get the best picture/audio quality. I'm not gonna turn into George Lucas, and get so obsessed with technology that I forget about my actors.

So, ALL I need is an external mic that will record at decent quality, without hearing the hum of the camera. Right now, the built in mic catches every little sound that is made on the camera, as well as the general "hum" of it's operation.

What's the cheapest way I can mic externally? All I need is half way decent, external mic. Will I still need an XLR adapter, or are there mic's that plug into the mini jack's on the camera? Mic's that mount on top don't work because they catch the vibration of the camera.

Thanks.

[Veltliner]

Many people use the Rode video mic.

I never used it and I don't know how good it is, or what it costs. As far as I know, it's a rather low cost solution.

You are right not to get into the video arms race. Concentrate on the filmmaking process and buy gear as you go along. You will get a feel for what you need.

Just don't buy junk (those "enthusiast's combos" offered on ebay, or those awful converters).

For a boom pole, you can take a stick, and attach the shock mount - and you have a boom pole. Only never attach a mic to anything without a shock mount.

[macgeek2005]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Many people use the Rode video mic.

I never used it and I don't know how good it is, or what it costs. As far as I know, it's a rather low cost solution.

You are right not to get into the video arms race. Concentrate on the filmmaking process and buy gear as you go along. You will get a feel for what you need.

Just don't buy junk (those "enthusiast's combos" offered on ebay, or those awful converters).

For a boom pole, you can take a stick, and attach the shock mount - and you have a boom pole. Only never attach a mic to anything without a shock mount.

Veltliner, you're my hero. I don't know what i'd do without you. From what it looks like, that mic comes with a shock mount. For what I'm doing right now, it looks like that's all i'll need. I don't need shotgun boom mic's. I just need a mic on my camera that will record better than the built in mic, and the Rode looks perfect. Will it fit in the shoe mount on top of my camcorder? Is there anything else I need besides the mic itself? I think i'll buy this one: Rode Stereo VideoMic - Camera Mounted Shotgun Microphone

And i'll get this boom pole. Rode Boompole Telescoping Lightweight Microphone Boom Pole from zZounds.com

Anything else I should know before I order?