[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst 

And the menubar? Meh. Hopefully the transparency is optional.

In case you didn't actually read the thread before you posted, I'll repeat this again: The menu bar transparency is completely optional.

For your convenience:

Some notes from the floor (repeat from previous page in case TheoCryst wasn't the only one to miss it):

Originally Posted by inkhead, MacRumors.com

A couple of notes from Moscone WWDC (woohoo!)

Menubar transparency can be turned off

However after trying it out, you never want to, it makes you more focused, and less distracted. I thought it was ugly, then tried it. It's actually very good for productivity.

It's fast.

Stacks are fantastic.

The new finder is absolutely the best part. How many years have we wanted a cocoa finder? It's HERE!!!!! Browsing network shares is no longer met with delays, it's using the fast Unix finally. I can try to mount 10 shares without every seeing a cursor.

Proper multi-threaded support. No more pauses when clicking on the menubar or anything else. Apps keep chugging along.

No more beachball so far.

It's the perfect OS for productivity. No crazy changes, just refinement to the extreme.

It's a beautiful thing!

DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now.

Dock works fine on the sides, 3D but the icons are sideways (proper) with shadow. Looks awesome on the side. I'd post pictures but I'd rather not be in Apple prison.

Emphasis mine.


Resolution independence:

Originally Posted by inkhead

Everything is res independent. So CTRL + scrollwheel does this fine. But this feature was already made very clear since last WWDC, IE resolution independence. It also has a bunch of session PDF files on res independence.

Miscellaneous information, including reiteration that the transparency is optional:

Originally Posted by inkhead

Leopard works on any machine down to a g4. (My guess is people will hack it for g3 as usual)
Speed up using solid state NAND or faster memory (like Vista ReadyBoost)
No restarting to use Bootcamp. Just select "Switch to Windows" from OS X, and your machine goes to sleep. Wake it up and your in Windows. You can do the same thing once in Windows to switch back to mac. VERY VERY NICE feature, no reason to use virtualization for me at least.
Redone Unix Underpinnings (HUGE FEATURE)
Completely Re-written Finder (This is a year + of work alone)
The resolution independence with zoom (CTRL+scrollwheel), yes it's in the zoom, because ZOOM is for accessibility or disabled users, so having the text and controls GO sharper IS THE PROPER WAY.
Completely New Speech. Think better than AT&T voices, seriously listening to text2speech read your documents is worth $129 to me alone.
Completely new mail client. Much faster, better calendar support, keep notes
GLOBAL date notice, right click on a date or time and OS X will be smart and offer to add it to your iCal
Global Screen and Document sharing, anyone can write it into their cocoa apps to share documents from EVERY program if two users are online. This is a GIANT leap forward for EVERYONE who actually works for a living.
transparent menu bar (optional), is EXCELLENT, you ONLY focus on your documents (and i thought i would hate it)
Spotlight, completely re-written with faster database, and backend
Finder, did I mention it's completely new? Networking, browsing, anything that used to beachball is SUPER FAST. The finder doesn't beachball on large folders, nor do you wait for thumbnails to come up, or wait period. You can try network shares as fast as you can click them.
The entire system has new underpinnings, that are better threaded. No pause if you click on a menu. THIS IS REALLY, REALLY big deal, as it takes months to rewrite that code that handles this sort of thing.
Redesigned printing servics, and dialogs, no more of that HORRIBLE 60 dropdown items. Preview of your document (thumbnail) is in every print dialog, and page setup can be reached from this window. Also printing does not put up a dialog covering the screen while it spools pages. No more stopping your productivity, while you wait to spool.

I'm just getting warmed up. It's extremely fast. This alone is worth $129, Anyone complaining that the update is 'lame' should just stick to their Tiger, and PLEASE stop posting

Screen sharing:

Originally Posted by inkhead

why does everyone assume screen sharing is gone? Because Steve didn't show it in iChat so it 'must not exist anymore' logic?

Screensharing is now global, you can do it anywhere, not just in iChat. Sharing is covered on engadget, gizmodo, macrumors... Did I miss anywhere??/ You can share volumes, browse computers behind firewalls, support your mom who is behind a shared IP set....

Regarding the 3D dock (in reply to annoying posters, so excuse the tone):

Originally Posted by inkhead

I don't mean to be insulting, but do you have eyes?? Seriously use them. The new dock is SHORTER in height than the old FLAT dock. Come-on, look before you post again.

[Hawkeye_a]

I thought the keynote was very appropriate and fitting for the audience and the occasion.

The new desktop is a nice little improvement. i like stacks, although i dont see whats so special about em, when i can drag any folder into the dock anyway. cool animations though. The new finder is.... ok i guess. i dont see whats so groundbreaking about it.

OSX is still the best thing available imo. but i cant help but criticize the look and feel for being so 'unixy', 'sterile', 'shiny'... kinda like a stainless steel kitchen or an ikea showroom or a pharmacy. i miss the cozy feeling of OS 7.5-9.2...which reminds me of a hobbit hole . I dont know if its the trash-can vs trash the title bars of windows or this horrid brushed-metal/grey gradient thing that makes OSX seem so 'clean'. </end rant>

Leopard looks good though but as will all major upgrades, i wont jump in until 10.5.1.

By the way, what happened to the new file system, ZFS ?

Ciao

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

If you're a noob on NN you're a noob period!

Ahh there's the thing how do you know I'm a noob here and not just an old member with a new nic?

(and no I'm not ca$h)

[MacosNerd]

I'm disappointed in that no iLife has been released. I was hoping to see a refresh with the rumored addition of the spreadsheet application.

I bet it was a resource issue in so far as they have a lot of projects hitting the streets, iPhone, leopard, safari 3.0 etc they just didn't have the people to do it right (I'm guessing).

[lpkmckenna]

Thanks for all that info, erik.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

You can configure it that way but I prefer to prod the screen with a stick

When I get a large multi touch I'll be able to prod with two sticks.

hint hint (iPhone and Surface already have the tech I wrote in that post)

I knew what you meant, and I don't like it.

I don't want a multi-touch display. Imagine holding your arms up in the air, waving them around all day. The good part is that your arms would be really toned. The bad part is that your arms would cramp up constantly.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Regarding the 3D dock (in reply to annoying posters, so excuse the tone):
Originally Posted by inkhead
I don't mean to be insulting, but do you have eyes?? Seriously use them. The new dock is SHORTER in height than the old FLAT dock. Come-on, look before you post again.

I downloaded the PR shot of Leopard and overlayed it with the current dock to get the icons the same size. After that was said and done the NEW leopard dock is slightly TALLER but LOOKS much taller because the icons are higher from the bottom.

[::maroma::]

^^ Looks to me to be about the same height, maybe a pixel or two higher (if you count the border of the old Dock).

But whatever, you can resize the damn Dock, remember? Don't like how high it is? Resize it!

[Jawbone54]

One thing I'm not sure I'm going to be fond of is that the current Dock has a distinct border. I know exactly where I need to stop resizing my windows. With the new Dock, the icons are the top, without any visible border.

I'm sure I'll get used to it.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

One thing I'm not sure I'm going to be fond of is that the current Dock has a distinct border. I know exactly where I need to stop resizing my windows. With the new Dock, the icons are the top, without any visible border.

I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Ha, all I can think is, I hope they create a transparent dock for that quick.

[osiris]

I hope 64 bit computing is as glorious as it looks, and that it runs 64 bit on older 64 bit machines (G5).
...It must scream on a Xeon.

minor point: Not sure if I like the new Dock, the icons seem too high or maybe the perspective is not deep enough. *this is only a beta*

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Didn't Steve sat 64 bit is on all shipping machines? Did he forget about the mini?

Also I highly doubt that 64 bit means G5's.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Didn't Steve sat 64 bit is on all shipping machines? Did he forget about the mini?

Pretty sure about this.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Also I highly doubt that 64 bit means G5's.

This would totally suck, but not be surprising. The G5s will never reach their full potential.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Did he forget about the mini?

Slip of the tongue about their future?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Also I highly doubt that 64 bit means G5's.

It should also mean G5s. Why wouldn't it?

From what I gather, it's not that hard to make the binaries compatible with 32-bit Intel and 32-bit PPC and 64-bit Intel and 64-bit PPC. If you're gonna make fat binaries with both 32-bit and 64-bit support, you may as well make it for all of the types of chips.

P.S. It will not make the apps 4 times as large.

[osiris]

Just what are the system specs for Leopard, pray tell?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. It will not make the apps 4 times as large.

You are absolutely no fun.

[Egran]

Is there any video of keynote already available for download?

[mdc]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Didn't Steve sat 64 bit is on all shipping machines? Did he forget about the mini?

For some reason I remember the image of all the Macs missing the mini when Steve was talking about 64bit.
There was an image of every Mac when the intel guy was on stage, and then later when talking about 64bit the mini was missing.

I can't post a screenshot since I'm at work right now and the video won't stream.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by osiris 

Just what are the system specs for Leopard, pray tell?

G4 (and built-in Firewire).

The Leopard Developer Preview system requirements don't specify a Quartz Extreme or Core Image capable GPU, but I'm still glad my G4 Cube has a GeForce 6200.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

G4 (and built-in Firewire).

The Leopard Developer Preview system requirements don't specify a Quartz Extreme or Core Image capable GPU, but I'm still glad my G4 Cube has a GeForce 6200.

If the G4 cube can run 10.5 I will be blown away as it will be 7 years old by the time Leopard ships.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Resolution independence:

CTRL+scrollwheel does not use res independence in Leopard.

[Peter]

er, why wouldn't it?!

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Didn't Steve sat 64 bit is on all shipping machines? Did he forget about the mini?

Also I highly doubt that 64 bit means G5's.

Pay attention. Steve said almost all shipping machines. View the keynote again if you don't believe me.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Peter 

er, why wouldn't it?!

Because windows are buffered in a pixel buffer/bitmap or whatever you want to call it. If ctrl-scrollwheel would increase the resolution, you would have to increase the buffer size and have all windows redraw, which would be slow (and not backwards-compatible with existing apps), or you would have them render in ridiculously large buffers all the time, which would would waste a lot of memory.

That's the reason I can think of why ctrl-scrollwheel wouldn't be resolution independent.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Didn't Steve sat 64 bit is on all shipping machines? Did he forget about the mini?

He said most of their shipping Macs.

Edit:
Erik beat me to it.

[Kerrigan]

I think Erik should get an award for having the only sane reaction to this keynote. :-p

[mdc]

^ From when Steve talks about the intel transition.


^ 64bit supported Macs. No mac mini.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Because windows are buffered in a pixel buffer/bitmap or whatever you want to call it. If ctrl-scrollwheel would increase the resolution, you would have to increase the buffer size and have all windows redraw, which would be slow (and not backwards-compatible with existing apps), or you would have them render in ridiculously large buffers all the time, which would would waste a lot of memory.

That's the reason I can think of why ctrl-scrollwheel wouldn't be resolution independent.

Furthermore RI isn't on and can't be turned on by the users.

Apple said at the last WWDC that developers had until the end of 2008 to make their apps RI ready, so I don't think we'll see RI until the end of 2008.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by mdc 

^ From when Steve talks about the intel transition.


^ 64bit supported Macs. No mac mini.

A little attentiveness goes a long way, it seems.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by JLL 

Furthermore RI isn't on and can't be turned on by the users.

Apple said at the last WWDC that developers had until the end of 2008 to make their apps RI ready, so I don't think we'll see RI until the end of 2008.

I'll take your word for it since you are at WWDC. I'm just confused how this conflicts with the information inkhead (also at WWDC as you know ) posted. He specifically stressed that graphics and text stayed sharp when zoomed in. It doesn't seem to me to be a way to confuse the two. Different settings in the developer tools between the two copies you are using?

Resolution independence is definitely something that is stressed on the developer site:

Originally Posted by Leopard Technology Series for Developers

Resolution Independence
The old assumption that displays are 72dpi has been rendered obsolete by advances in display technology. Macs now ship with displays that sport native resolutions of 100dpi or better. Furthermore, the number of pixels per inch will continue to increase dramatically over the next few years. This will make displays crisper and smoother, but it also means that interfaces that are pixel-based will shrink to the point of being unusable. The solution is to remove the 72dpi assumption that has been the norm. In Leopard, the system, including the Carbon and Cocoa frameworks, will be able to draw user interface elements using a scale factor. This will let the user interface maintain the same physical size while gaining resolution and crispness from high dpi displays.

The introduction of resolution independence may mean that there is work that you’ll need to do in order to make your application look as good as possible. For modern Cocoa and Carbon applications, most of the work will center around raster-based resources. For older applications that use QuickDraw, more work will be required to replace QuickDraw-based calls with Quartz ones.

But of course, users might not see the benefits of this until a later update. Perhaps not even before the next big cat. Not that we have a particular need for it until we start to see true high-resolution displays.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I think Erik should get an award for having the only sane reaction to this keynote. :-p

I think I'm just basing my opinion on what's really going on here instead of over-reacting to the inflated hype that always brings with it unrealistic expectations before these keynotes. Here for the benefit of those who do not venture beyond the lounge, again, is my theory for why people are so disappointed with this keynote:


I think what we are seeing here is a bit of a feature-fatigue. People simply aren't as excited about new things still. Mac OS X is a mature operating system, and for new features to be perceived as cool anymore, they have to be more radical than before. Would people go mental for stacks if it had been introduced before Exposé? You bet!

So instead of people complaining, simply because they have been spoiled by previous innovations by Apple, they should take a step back and look at what Apple really is giving us here: A solid, refined operating system that will actually help you get your work done in the most pleasant manner possible. After all, an OS is just something that enables you to do your productive stuff (or be entertained by games, music and movies) without getting too much in your way.

Spaces and Stacks will be definitive general usability improvements, just like Exposé did. Time Machine on the other hand is going to be a genuine life-saver for a lot of people. So yes, I'd say that Leopard will be the biggest and most refined release of Mac OS X so far.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Not that we have a particular need for it until we start to see true high-resolution displays.

The new MacBook Pros have a high-res display option — it packs the same number of pixels into the 17" MBP as you get in the 24" iMac.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The new MacBook Pros have a high-res display option — it packs the same number of pixels into the 17" MBP as you get in the 24" iMac.

Good point, but as it's only a high-end option right now, few users will actually get it. But it might usher in resolution independence sooner rather than later. It really all boils down to how quickly developers adapt their apps.

On a side note, how many DPIs is that 17" high res display? 133?

[Chuckit]

Yep, that's 133 PPI.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

I'll take your word for it since you are at WWDC. I'm just confused how this conflicts with the information inkhead (also at WWDC as you know ) posted. He specifically stressed that graphics and text stayed sharp when zoomed in. It doesn't seem to me to be a way to confuse the two. Different settings in the developer tools between the two copies you are using?

Inkhead dodged my menu bar question and stopped answering me when I said that I was at WWDC.

I'm still waiting for his answer on how to make the menu bar opaque, and I haven't seen anyone else stating that it can be done.

[- - e r i k - -]

If his information is incorrect, I'm sure it's just a matter of retrofitting your desktop wallpaper with a makeshift menubar at worst. Some 3rd party utility will have this fixed one way or the other.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

If his information is incorrect, I'm sure it's just a matter of retrofitting your desktop wallpaper with a makeshift menubar at worst. Some 3rd party utility will have this fixed one way or the other.

Heck, I assume the private windowserver API is still mostly the same. If the transparency isn't adjustable, I'm sure somebody will just hack it to make the thing opaque.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

"But it’s not a static appearance—Apple told us that the menu bar will automatically adapt its translucency and color to whatever Desktop picture you choose. So, for example, if you choose a dark background, you’ll still be able to read menu names clearly."

Macworld: First Look: Leopard preview: Desktop and Finder changes

[JLL]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"But it’s not a static appearance—Apple told us that the menu bar will automatically adapt its translucency and color to whatever Desktop picture you choose. So, for example, if you choose a dark background, you’ll still be able to read menu names clearly."

It's basically a screen filter effect if you know that from Photoshop.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Some notes from the floor:
The icons are turned clockwise and anti-clockwise with the dock on the side now? I'll have to see that for myself before I judge it.

They don't seem to be turned sideways according to this screenshot from the keynote. (0:19:19)

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

This is the revolution.

I see a file icon. It's a live preview. I perform a gesture on it and it scales up to full document size without delay. Application launch is transparent. I work on the document until I am happy. I perform a gesture over the title bar or click save and then the document shrinks back to a live preview icon.

copyright and patent MacNN member Super Mario as of date of this comment

THAT is just one example of revolution!!!!!!!!

Aren't you basically describing the new finder and quickview, except with fancier effects & 'gestures'?

[- - e r i k - -]

Yeah, I saw that too (after that post). Hmmm. Not really sure what to think about that look. Again it's something I'll have to see for myself.

[Eriamjh]

It's been said before that what is most hated about the dock are apps that are not "dock aware" meaning their windows overlap it, reducing control forcing you to move the window before you can grab a corner.

I hate going "into the dock" when trying to do something at the bottom of window. And don't say to "hide the dock" cause that sucks, too. It's one reason I turn off magnification. With it on, once you enter the dock, you have to move farther to get out. It sucks.

The whole 64-bit thing is interesting. Obviously, a Core 2 Duo mini would be 64-bit, but Apple doesn't ship them that way. Apple is milking the mini and it is likely dead.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by mdc 

They don't seem to be turned sideways according to this screenshot from the keynote. (0:19:19)

Good.

I'm happy with the keynote. Leopard looks good to me.

[ironknee]

anyone find images of the new folder icons?

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by kmkkid 

Aren't you basically describing the new finder and quickview, except with fancier effects & 'gestures'?

That is just the effect. I'm talking be able to edit and work on the document right when it scales up to full size. I know how Apple can achieve this but it requires application to install themselves as part of the OS and they run in memory (transparently in the background) when the OS boots up. When you enlarge a live preview icon and choose to edit the document then the tool bars appear.

[- - e r i k - -]

Read up on OpenDoc and why it failed and then come back to us on that Super Mario.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Super Mario 

That is just the effect. I'm talking be able to edit and work on the document right when it scales up to full size. I know how Apple can achieve this but it requires application to install themselves as part of the OS and they run in memory (transparently in the background) when the OS boots up. When you enlarge a live preview icon and choose to edit the document then the tool bars appear.

Right, because I want the bloat of Word, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and more, directly installed into the OS and taking memory at all times. Great plan.

[Eug]

So Automator now essentially dead?

Yeah it still exists in Leopard, but it seems nobody cares about it, not even Apple.