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jabaro · Jun 27, 2007, 02:31 PM

I just read this article on MDN about Macs making headway in small businesses. That's great, but for me and my small business it doesn't mean much. I've been using Macs exclusively since the mid 80s, and I am finally ready to replace my aging G4. Unfortunately, there is no Mac currently available that fits my needs. A Mini just won't cut it and a Pro is overkill for me. I'll never use the Pro's expansion slots and might like to add one additional HD at most. I like the capabilities of the iMac, but I just bought a 23" widescreen monitor. Besides, I really don't like having the monitor and computer all in one -- I don't want to be without my computer if the monitor dies, or vice versa. I want a MiniPro™ and from what I've read, I'm not alone. When will Apple fill this empty niche? It would be a perfect machine for businesses of all sizes. If it were done right, and priced right, I bet they'd sell more of these than the Mini and Pro lines combined.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 02:42 PM

Yep. Everyone agrees. The only problem is that Apple doesn't seem to think it would help them make money.

MacosNerd · Jun 27, 2007, 02:52 PM

Yes, this subject has been beaten to death, there seems to be quite a hue and call for apple to release a headless imac.

I can see the logic in wanting one, but I don't think apple is going to add another computer model to its line up and risk reducing the sales of those models - just my $.02

olePigeon · Jun 27, 2007, 02:55 PM

I'd love for Apple to reintroduce the Performa 6400/6500 style mini-tower. They could probably just stick the mini on a chassis like the Performa and LC had, but so it installs into a tower with 2 PCI-Express slots. That way they wouldn't have to make any significant changes to the motherboard itself.

Here's a pic of the old Performa 6400. It had 2 RAM slots, an expandable L2 Cache slot, comm slot, A/V card with Coax, and 1 open 5 1/4" bay (may have Zip drive installed).

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Yes, this subject has been beaten to death, there seems to be quite a hue and call for apple to release a headless imac.

It's not just a headless iMac, it's a mid to low end machine that uses desktop, rather than laptop parts.

MacosNerd · Jun 27, 2007, 07:23 PM

Maybe so but how many consumers (or even power users) know that the iMac uses laptop components. To them they'll see basically a headless iMac.

so much so you have to wonder how much of a market there may be for this. Most people fall into two camps, the Imac folks and the MacPro group. Most people who need more power then the iMac will get the Macpro. Why should apple sell a cheaper computer that will eat into both their iMac and MacPro sales and possibly not increase sales overall.

Like I said I can see the logic in asking but I also see little business sense - of course its been a little while since Steve asked me advice on what Apple should do

- - e r i k - - · Jun 27, 2007, 08:00 PM

Just get an iMac. Seriously.

I have a 24" iMac at home and a tricked out Mac Pro at work. I used to be in the "I NEED a tower" camp. But you really don't. iMacs can connect external monitors as well. And who has ever had their iMac monitor "die on them"? I've used computers since the eighties, and never had a monitor just die on me. I do switch computers more often than I used to though.

OreoCookie · Jun 27, 2007, 08:14 PM

Erik is dead on: get an iMac and be done with it.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 08:14 PM

Well that's the problem - Apple thinks it won't make money, and yes, most people don't realise that an iMac uses laptop parts until they come to upgrade it.

Chuckit · Jun 27, 2007, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And who has ever had their iMac monitor "die on them"?

I have. It sucks.

jabaro · Jun 27, 2007, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Just get an iMac. Seriously.

And who has ever had their iMac monitor "die on them"?

Both my wife's and mine died within the last year. In fact next to hard drives, in my experience monitors are the component most likely to fail. And now that we both have new flatscreens, a 23" and a 30", we have no need nor room for another. Not to mention no desire to pay for one.

So we don't fit into either one of those two camps that MacosNerd mentioned. We don't necessarily need more power than an iMac, it's just that we don't need or want the built-in monitor.

And yes, some Mini and Pro sales may be canibalized. But neither is really very appropriate for the business market, large or small. So a smaller, less expensive dekstop machine might just help to expand Macs into a new market.

vmarks · Jun 28, 2007, 01:56 AM

There once was a headless iMac, or a Pro Mini.

It was called a PowerMac G4 Cube.

They were very neat looking, compact, expandable, and a complete failure in the marketplace. Whether this was because of the pricing model, or whether it was because people got the willies over molding lines, I cannot say.

I will suggest that the chances of Apple doing it again are pretty slim.

Jawbone54 · Jun 28, 2007, 01:57 AM

Not gonna happen. Just accept the iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro as your only desktop options. I wouldn't be waiting on something that is a 99% impossibility.

OreoCookie · Jun 28, 2007, 01:58 AM

There's always the option to sell your extra screens and get the iMac with enough room to spare. The largest iMac has a not-so-puny 24" screen.

goMac · Jun 28, 2007, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I'd love for Apple to reintroduce the Performa 6400/6500 style mini-tower. They could probably just stick the mini on a chassis like the Performa and LC had, but so it installs into a tower with 2 PCI-Express slots. That way they wouldn't have to make any significant changes to the motherboard itself.

Here's a pic of the old Performa 6400. It had 2 RAM slots, an expandable L2 Cache slot, comm slot, A/V card with Coax, and 1 open 5 1/4" bay (may have Zip drive installed).

Did you ever own one of those? They were the worst machines known to man. I shudder when I think about the one we used to have.

I mean, the case was cool and all. But the machine itself...

- - e r i k - - · Jun 28, 2007, 04:48 AM

Yeah. I loved the form factor, but boy was that one big suck of a machine :/

TETENAL · Jun 28, 2007, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

Well that's the problem - Apple thinks it won't make money, and yes, most people don't realise that an iMac uses laptop parts until they come to upgrade it.

What parts in an iMac are "laptop parts"?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 28, 2007, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I have. It sucks.

Elaborate? Which model? What happened?

C.A.T.S. CEO · Jun 28, 2007, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What parts in an iMac are "laptop parts"?

RAM and the CPU, I think.

Mastrap · Jun 28, 2007, 07:50 AM

How about getting a MaBook or MBP? Just use it closed and there's your headless machine. I use a MBP with a 23" cinema display that way and could not be happier. At home I use a 24" iMac.

Dakarʒ · Jun 28, 2007, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

Yep. Everyone agrees. The only problem is that Apple doesn't seem to think it would help them make money.

It'd make them money, just not as much money as forcing mid-level consumers to buy higher.

Chuckit · Jun 28, 2007, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Elaborate? Which model? What happened?

It was a third- or fourth-generation iMac G3. At first it worked OK, but after a couple of years, the screen started to go weird — distortions, flickering, etc. It went like that for a while, then it wouldn't turn on and the screen started burning (nasty smell, by the way). I yanked the power cord before my iMac went all Drew Barrymore on the bedroom. That's pretty much the end of my iMac's tragic tale.

Chuckit · Jun 28, 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What parts in an iMac are "laptop parts"?

Aside from the screen, all of them that come in laptop varieties.

Dakarʒ · Jun 28, 2007, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by jabaro

In fact next to hard drives, in my experience monitors are the component most likely to fail.

The LCD died on my old laptop after 2 years. I had a friend lend me a monitor and 6 months later the HD started to die.

(In other words, right you are)

Dakarʒ · Jun 28, 2007, 09:09 AM

huh?

Dakarʒ · Jun 28, 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

Right - that amounts to the same thing in the end.

huh?

peeb · Jun 28, 2007, 09:10 AM

Right - that amounts to the same thing in the end.

Dakarʒ · Jun 28, 2007, 09:11 AM

test

- - e r i k - - · Jun 28, 2007, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It was a third- or fourth-generation iMac G3. At first it worked OK, but after a couple of years, the screen started to go weird — distortions, flickering, etc. It went like that for a while, then it wouldn't turn on and the screen started burning (nasty smell, by the way). I yanked the power cord before my iMac went all Drew Barrymore on the bedroom. That's pretty much the end of my iMac's tragic tale.

I suspected it was a CRT

Chuckit · Jun 28, 2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by vmarks

There once was a headless iMac, or a Pro Mini.

It was called a PowerMac G4 Cube.

Actually, it was called the Power Mac G4. It was priced right alongside the iMac, not thousands of dollars ahead of it like towers are now. The Cube was actually more expensive and, if I recall, less powerful than the tower. That's why it flopped.

jabaro · Jun 28, 2007, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by vmarks

There once was a headless iMac, or a Pro Mini.
It was called a PowerMac G4 Cube.

Yes, a modern version of the Cube would be perfect for me. And it doesn't have to be a failure in the market. Those that owned (and still own) the Cube love it. And most seem to think it was a failure mainly because of its price. And it being ahead of its time. I think the time is now right, and if the price is too, I think it would be a great success

jabaro · Jun 28, 2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

How about getting a MaBook or MBP? Just use it closed and there's your headless machine.

Yes, I've considered that option. But a MBP with enough memory and hard drive space would cost as much as or more than a Mac Pro. Besides, I already have an iBook I use for travel. And I'm a little leary of using the same computer at home and on the road. If something were to happen to it, I'd be in trouble.

If I were to buy a new computer now, it would probably be either the low-end MacPro or the 17-inch iMac, which I would then use as a second monitor (if I can find space on my desk). However, I am still quite happy with my 1.25 GHz DP G4. If it weren't for my occasional need to test software on Windows, I'd have no real reason to upgrade. So I plan to wait until this fall and see what happens.

Big Mac · Jun 28, 2007, 10:55 AM

The big problem is that Apple has steadily moved the price of its low end tower up. Apple doesn't even want to ship a single dual core configuration Mac Pro. Part of the problem is that larger LCDs have been able to allow the iMac line to nearly fill the prosumer gap. If you want a cheap Mac Pro, the best strategy is probably to wait for price breaks after a new revision debuts.