[Rumor]

Justice For Kurt Cobain - Reasons Why This Case Should Be Reopened

I've always wondered what exactly happened. Did he kill himself? Was it a cover up for his murder?

Apparently, he had three times the amount of heroin in his blood to kill him, then shot himself. Sounds pretty astounding.

This website is trying to get the case reopened. Probably not having much luck though.

[design219]

courtney

[Rumor]

What did she benefit from killing him? Do you think she did it to keep the estate? Rumor is, he wanted to divorce her.

[Kevin]

He had enough heroin to kill the average person. But he was a junky with a lot of money and a HUGE habit.

[Rumor]

True. Do you think he could have built up a tolerance that high? Seems like a lot, even for a junky. (I know next to nothing about herion, just going off that figure produced in the article)

[Rev-O]

Originally Posted by design219 

courtney

QFT

[- - e r i k - -]

He wanted to kill himself. He overdosed and shot himself to be sure. It's not exactly rocket-science. Conspiracy theorists having a slow day, hmmm?

[Atheist]

I thought everyone knew that Kurt was killed because he had first-hand knowledge of the governments plan to murder it's own citizens on 9/11.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

He wanted to kill himself. He overdosed and shot himself to be sure. It's not exactly rocket-science. Conspiracy theorists having a slow day, hmmm?

I thought it would make an interesting debate. I am far from being a conspiracy theorist.

[- - e r i k - -]

It's obvious he knew too much:

Originally Posted by Kurt Khomeini

Load up on guns
Bring your friends
Its fun to lose
And to pretend

[residentEvil]

because his death mattered to anyone besides family and friends?

thousands die every day that had more impact on humanity*1 than he did. maybe not to more people than family, but a "rock star" leaving the earth is news?

was it too early in his life? sure. was it graphic? sure. was more going in then anyone, including family and courtney knew? probably. but are those who thought he was a "rock god" thinks his life was more important than that of anyone else? must be yes to keep bringing it up.

obviously, i didn't like the music or any of the grunge era but was his life that important to keep bringing it up compared to a non celebrity? does a celebrity death mean more than the average joe's dad or mom or brother or sister?

i find it odd what the "masses" think is important, important enough to turn it into a cause to find the "truth".

kurt isn't the rule or the exception, just what is more current than anyone elses*2 untimely death?

*1 death is important, but is his suicide more important than someone elses?

*2 the death of football player pat tillman from the war keeps coming up too. consiparcy and family concerns are all over the place.

[ghporter]

Kurt was "Mr. Angst" for at least the last several months of his life. Successful, in what was supposedly a great marriage (to them anyway), no responsibilities other than doing what he loved to do, he over achieved and thus outpaced his dreams. That's something that happens to a lot of people who succeed despite what society expects of them. Look at Freddy Prinz. So Kurt got used to numbing himself with heroin and when that wasn't numb enough, he started listening to the little voices that told him he wasn't good enough to deserve what he had earned. A lot of drugs let the little voices speak up, and heroin is really good at it.

I am personally still mad at Kurt. He didn't tell anyone he was hurting, even Courtney. He didn't tell his family, his bandmates, anyone. So how could he get any help? Instead, he surrendered to the voices and took the easy way out. I tend to be mad at suicides because it is an easy and selfish way out for them, and the selfishness is extremely hurtful.

But I don't know of anyone who would have benefited by Kurt dying, so I can't imagine why anyone would kill him. Long term junkies DO build a tolerance to opiates-it's one of the dangers of that type of drug. While he may have intentionally OD'd, that sort of death takes time, especially when one's opiate receptors have been saturated for a period of time. Not dying fast enough, get out the gun.

[Dakarʒ]

It's a conspiracy by all the 80s hair bands. They never forgave him for giving us an alternative to that ****.

[keekeeree]

Kudos to Kurt for giving us Foo Fighters.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

It's a conspiracy by all the 80s hair bands.

You know too much.


BRB, I gotta phone Vince...

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

I thought everyone knew that Kurt was killed because he had first-hand knowledge of the governments plan to murder it's own citizens on 9/11.

Yes, and dossier for that plan was handed to an astronaut in the Nevada desert during the fake moon landing. The whistle blower was a Grey from the constellation Draco, and the astronaut was, of course, J.F.K.

No wonder the FBI had to assassinate him.

[IceEnclosure]

Foo Fighters are meh.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You know too much.


BRB, I gotta phone Vince...

My buddy makes it a point in his life to hang out with, as often as possible, dudes from Motley Crue, GnR, and like Bret Michaels and ****. He's doing well so far.

[Cipher13]

Who cares?

He was a hack, and their music was incredibly weak.

[freudling]

Curt was awesome. New era of music...

He killed himself, little doubt there. He was so high on drugs, and so depressed, he became completely dissociated with reality, checked back in one more time, and said, "forget this" and pulled the trigger. He had massive stomach pain for the greater part of his adult life, that is why he turned to drugs. Trippin on society + stomach pain = not wanting to live anymore.

The fact that someone would call a dead man a hack, such as Cobain, is disturbing.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I am personally still mad at Kurt. He didn't tell anyone he was hurting, even Courtney. He didn't tell his family, his bandmates, anyone. So how could he get any help? Instead, he surrendered to the voices and took the easy way out. I tend to be mad at suicides because it is an easy and selfish way out for them, and the selfishness is extremely hurtful.

How do you know he heard voices in his head?

His life was his own, to end at a time of his own choosing.

If that's what he did.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

True. Do you think he could have built up a tolerance that high? Seems like a lot, even for a junky. (I know next to nothing about herion, just going off that figure produced in the article)

Yes tolerance is easy to build up. For example. They make 80mg oxycontin pills.

This one pill could kill a normal person. But those that have a tolerance, it would not.

I knew someone that woke up and took 3 80s a day just to keep from being "dope sick"

Most junkies end up "tapering" their high to make their stuff last so their tolerance goes back down. They get payed, it goes up, cycle continues.

If you have an unlimited supply of money, you'll always keep shooting more and more and more. Because the more you shoot, the more it takes to get that SAME high.

One of he "best friends" at the time even said he was on a dose almost as high as Kurt when he was a big seller.

So yes, it is possible.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

d despite what society expects of them. Look at Freddy Prinz. So Kurt got used to numbing himself with heroin and when that wasn't numb enough, he started listening to the little voices that told him he wasn't good enough to deserve what he had earned. A lot of drugs let the little voices speak up, and heroin is really good at it.

Ah I've seen you've delt with opiate abusers before. And yes I agree 100%

I am personally still mad at Kurt. He didn't tell anyone he was hurting, even Courtney. He didn't tell his family, his bandmates, anyone. So how could he get any help? Instead, he surrendered to the voices and took the easy way out. I tend to be mad at suicides because it is an easy and selfish way out for them, and the selfishness is extremely hurtful.

Agreed too. It was a selfish act. But when you have a chemical imbalance you don't think properly either. And Kurt was bi-polar. Those around him should have helped, but they can't unless he wants it.

But I don't know of anyone who would have benefited by Kurt dying, so I can't imagine why anyone would kill him. Long term junkies DO build a tolerance to opiates-it's one of the dangers of that type of drug. While he may have intentionally OD'd, that sort of death takes time, especially when one's opiate receptors have been saturated for a period of time. Not dying fast enough, get out the gun.

Well Record companies would benefit..

But there is no conspiracy. He did it.

Originally Posted by freudling 

Curt was awesome. New era of music...

He killed himself, little doubt there. He was so high on drugs, and so depressed, he became completely dissociated with reality, checked back in one more time, and said, "forget this" and pulled the trigger. He had massive stomach pain for the greater part of his adult life, that is why he turned to drugs. Trippin on society + stomach pain = not wanting to live anymore.

The fact that someone would call a dead man a hack, such as Cobain, is disturbing.

I have stomach pains, get depressed, did drugs too. I didn't off myself.

Never plan to either. There is no excuse.

[Dakarʒ]

There is no excuse for being so mentally imbalanced you off yourself? Tell me I read this incorrectly.

[IceEnclosure]

My friend and I were sittin around one day after school in '94 and whipped up a rather detailed illustration of what he thought the scene would have looked like. I never thought of a conspiracy, ala tupac and biggie baby baaby.

[moonmonkey]

He was obviously killed by the CIA as the result of a covert MK ULTRA experiment masterminded by Opus Dei.
It makes me laugh that you people can't see that.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Who cares?

He was a hack, and their music was incredibly weak.

troll much?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

There is no excuse for being so mentally imbalanced you off yourself? Tell me I read this incorrectly.

Those around him knew he was. He knew he was. Yet he wasn't taking teh medication he was SUPPOSED to be taking. Instead he took heroin.

[Dakarʒ]

Well, that's the problem with being mentally imbalanced. You make dumb decisions because you ain't right. If you weren't prone to making dumb decisions, you wouldn't need those medications.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Well, that's the problem with being mentally imbalanced. You make dumb decisions because you ain't right. If you weren't prone to making dumb decisions, you wouldn't need those medications.

Being no stranger to both imbalances and drug abuse I know what you are attempting to say. But in the end, we are still responsible for our actions.

There are thousands upon thousands of people that have/had the same condition Kurt does. Some choose to off themselves, some choose to stay and deal with their problems.

Having a mental disorder doesn't automatically suddenly make you a person that is unable to understand your actions.

Kurt knew full well what he was doing.

He was a loaded gun. He knew it, others around him knew it. Yet he choose to walk around with said gun loaded ready to go off at anytime rather than to actually seek help. He took the "easy way out" (More like out of the pot into the frying pan.. but whatever)

I guess getting off drugs and leading a straight life isn't very punk rock.

He was also in the end, afraid of failure. Turning into a nobody.

The line "Better to burn out than fade away" or whatever he used and the "You can't fire me because I quit" made this obvious.

This wasn't an spur of the moment mental breakdown. He was planning on doing this for a long time.

Did his Bi-Polar disease help? Probably not. But more than anything Kurt was his OWN enemy.

If everyone that had depression offed themselves then yeah, I could understand. But not everyone does.

Why is that?

There are people out there that had/has it worse off than Kurt that have decided to tough it out and stay. THey seem to be able to have that conscience choice.

So did Kurt.

It's sad he choose to do such a selfish act. People were so pissy about Courtney slamming Kurt in her "speech" right after he died.

But she was DEAD ON. She knew more than anyone here that he had a choice. That he was just being selfish.

I feel bad for his daughter.

[kelso]

Didn't he supposedly kill himself with a shotgun. And for him to set the shotgun off he would of had to use his feet (toes). But when he was found at the crime scene, both shoes were on. So it kind of looks like someone murdered him.

Thats what I heard from some people and from some of the things I read.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Being no stranger to both imbalances and drug abuse I know what you are attempting to say. But in the end, we are still responsible for our actions.

If that were true, we wouldn't have such concepts as competency.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

The line "Better to burn out than fade away" or whatever he used and the "You can't fire me because I quit" made this obvious.

This wasn't an spur of the moment mental breakdown. He was planning on doing this for a long time.

He was unwell for a long time (That's probably why he had been prescribed drugs). Just because he had time to make his decision doesn't imply he was using any type of valid rationale or was doing so with a good state of mind.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

But more than anything Kurt was his OWN enemy.

If anything his lifestyle ended up being his undoing. A shallow, drug infested industry probably wasn't the best situation for someone with his problems.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

If everyone that had depression offed themselves then yeah, I could understand. But not everyone does.

Why is that?

Not everyone is at the same level of depression? Not everyone is in the same set of circumstances?

[Dakarʒ]

Since this got added later on:

Originally Posted by Kevin 

It's sad he choose to do such a selfish act. People were so pissy about Courtney slamming Kurt in her "speech" right after he died.

But she was DEAD ON. She knew more than anyone here that he had a choice. That he was just being selfish.

Actually she was being selfish. Because she didn't like the feeling s she had been left with. She was his wife. She must have had a clue what kind of state he was in. So why didn't she do something? Whatever that reason is, is probably selfish (too much trouble, not around because of her career, etc.)

[IceEnclosure]

it's totally possible to shoot yourself in the face with a shotgun
google shotgun suicide and the first link has plenty of examples.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

If that were true, we wouldn't have such concepts as competency.

Correct. Had Cobain lived through his attempt, he would have been charged with suicide. You know this right? (It's against the law to commit suicide in the states)

He was unwell for a long time (That's probably why he had been prescribed drugs).

He had bi-polar disorder. And irritable bowel. Which is basically just really bad indigestion. Been there, done that. They don't prescribe you opiates for such a thing.

Just because he had time to make his decision doesn't imply he was using any type of valid rationale or was doing so with a good state of mind.

Well he was on a crapload of heroin. I am sure his state of mind was effected, I am not denying this.

If anything his lifestyle ended up being his undoing. A shallow, drug infested industry probably wasn't the best situation for someone with his problems.

In the end he was his own undoing. He was into the smack before he was famous. His "wife" certainly didn't help either I am sure. There was rumors of her being a cheater.

Not everyone is at the same level of depression? Not everyone is in the same set of circumstances?

I am betting there was/is people that were worse off than Kurt that never would pull the trigger.

How can they overcome such a task? What makes them special?

For example I have had my relationship with depression myself. Suicidal thoughts and all.

Somehow I knew me offing myself wouldn't help anything.

I've realized one thing in my life. And this has nothing to do with religion so I don't want to derail it. But that one thing is, no one gets away with anything. The things we do come back to us.

Using that reasoning the thought of offing yourself would only make things WORSE on you. So if you are feeling so bad you want to die, but at the same time realizing that dying isn't going to put you in any better of a situation it doesn't make sense to do so anymore.

Actually she was being selfish. Because she didn't like the feeling s she had been left with. She was his wife. She must have had a clue what kind of state he was in. So why didn't she do something? Whatever that reason is, is probably selfish (too much trouble, not around because of her career,

I am not saying she was selfish (And she tried to do something, she pretty much made him go to rehab, he escaped remember)

I just said what she said was dead on about what he did. She even said herself he had other options that would have worked. He knew he did as well.

He choose what he THOUGHT was the easiest way out of them.

[Rumor]

Pstt, Dakar, you're mail box is full.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Pstt, Dakar, you're mail box is full.

Wow, this new account has been way more popular than my last two.

[Dakarʒ]

I'll get to you post later today (I hope), Kevin, something important just got dropped into my lap at work.

[Rumor]

It's the little square after your name, Mr. Popular.

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Correct. Had Cobain lived through his attempt, he would have been charged with suicide. You know this right? (It's against the law to commit suicide in the states)

He had bi-polar disorder. And irritable bowel. Which is basically just really bad indigestion. Been there, done that. They don't prescribe you opiates for such a thing.

Well he was on a crapload of heroin. I am sure his state of mind was effected, I am not denying this.

In the end he was his own undoing. He was into the smack before he was famous. His "wife" certainly didn't help either I am sure. There was rumors of her being a cheater.

I am betting there was/is people that were worse off than Kurt that never would pull the trigger.

How can they overcome such a task? What makes them special?

For example I have had my relationship with depression myself. Suicidal thoughts and all.

Somehow I knew me offing myself wouldn't help anything.

I've realized one thing in my life. And this has nothing to do with religion so I don't want to derail it. But that one thing is, no one gets away with anything. The things we do come back to us.

Using that reasoning the thought of offing yourself would only make things WORSE on you. So if you are feeling so bad you want to die, but at the same time realizing that dying isn't going to put you in any better of a situation it doesn't make sense to do so anymore.

I am not saying she was selfish (And she tried to do something, she pretty much made him go to rehab, he escaped remember)

I just said what she said was dead on about what he did. She even said herself he had other options that would have worked. He knew he did as well.

He choose what he THOUGHT was the easiest way out of them.

wow u know alot on the subject.

im a little too young to know loads about Kurt but did recently watch a program about his death, cant remember much of it though im not really a fan of Nirvana but dont mind there music now Grunge as a genera. I would love to know alot more about it and to actually know 100% for sure the truth, which i dont think we will ever find unless Jobs make iTimetravel any time soon. Theres alot of things that were easy to quiestion about the curcomstances that he died under, but at the end of the day nothings impossible and i think these 'courtnety did it' guys need to respect that the chance that 'kurt did it' is possible alot higher.

Was Kurt been selfish? well in someways no, the only ppl he really left behind was Courtney and the Band, (to my knowlege) he didnt have that many close friends. Your life is handed to you at birth to do what u want with it.

To those people she moan that this topic keeps on coming up and up about Kurt's death have to keep in mind how many teens connected to Kurt, his music possible saved lives (sadly cost one in the end) he was a role model to thousands, he had more power than the goverment, if he said do something, the worlds population of teens would lissen, alot would do. He deserves just as much attenction as JFK (sorry if that offends Americans, just a British opinion.

Sorry if anything i said there was wrong, just wanted to voice my opinion.

Matt

[Kevin]

Was Kurt been selfish? well in someways no, the only ppl he really left behind was Courtney and the Band, (to my knowlege) he didnt have that many close friends. Your life is handed to you at birth to do what u want with it.

He left a baby girl behind. Who had to grow up without a daddy.

That had to grow up knowing daddy shot and killed himself while you were still a baby.

That had to mess with the gal's head.

[NobleMatt]

ha didnt know he had a child, yer then thats pritty messed up, poor lass

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

I'll get to you post later today (I hope), Kevin, something important just got dropped into my lap at work.

I'll bet you spilled your Spaghetti-O's.

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

I'll bet you spilled your Spaghetti-O's.

LOL!

such good humor in a depressing thread

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

I'll bet you spilled your Spaghetti-O's.

No, but I did have to zip up quick.

[NobleMatt]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

No, but I did have to zip up quick.

u were having a Wrafty Cank?

[Dakarʒ]

Well I solved that work problem. And by solved, I mean I told them it was too low-res to work with.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Correct. Had Cobain lived through his attempt, he would have been charged with suicide. You know this right? (It's against the law to commit suicide in the states)

That's true. But they don't put you in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for it. They put you in a mental institution.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

He had bi-polar disorder. And irritable bowel. Which is basically just really bad indigestion. Been there, done that. They don't prescribe you opiates for such a thing.

I wasn't implying such a thing. Was I mistaken that he had been prescribed anti-depressants?

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I am betting there was/is people that were worse off than Kurt that never would pull the trigger.

How can they overcome such a task? What makes them special?

Stronger willed? Edit: I think my closing sentence handles this.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Somehow I knew me offing myself wouldn't help anything.

Obviously, you still had the ability to think rationally.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I've realized one thing in my life. And this has nothing to do with religion so I don't want to derail it. But that one thing is, no one gets away with anything. The things we do come back to us.

Well since this isn't about religion, that statement makes no sense to me, because once he's gone, nothing and no one can ever do anything to him because he has ceased to exist. Life was torture and he wanted to end that torture. He did.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

II am not saying she was selfish (And she tried to do something, she pretty much made him go to rehab, he escaped remember)

I had forgotten. That only makes him sound more hopeless to me, though.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I just said what she said was dead on about what he did. She even said herself he had other options that would have worked. He knew he did as well.

He choose what he THOUGHT was the easiest way out of them.

Because he was out of his mind.

I'm not too much in the mood to drag this on a Friday, so I'm going to try to wrap this up (I tried to give more commentary than arguments above). I find difficulty laying all the blame on Kurt when it was obvious he had some debilitating mental problems that were compounded by the rock star lifestyle. The latter part could have been avoided, perhaps with fore-thought on his own part, but that would probably have required a sort of self-awareness I'm not sure he had (else he might have stayed on his anti-depressants). And I'm not entirely convinced that a realization he could never be a rock star wouldn't have cracked him too.

I think I have the right sentence to sum this up. Kurt had the option not to pull the trigger, but he didn't have the ability.

(I don't expect/deserve to end the subject here, just letting you know of my intentions)

Edit: I suppose this is as good a time as any to listen to some Nirvana.

[Big Mac]

A lot of people like to say suicide is a cowardly way out. I don't think it is. Other societies throughout history actually considered it noble. At worst it's a tragic, probably irresponsible choice, but it's not cowardly.

And anyone who doesn't like Nirvana has no taste in music.

[Dale Sorel]

Kurt Cobain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Who cares?

He was a hack, and their music was incredibly weak.

End of thread.

V