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Kerrigan · Jul 23, 2007, 06:24 PM

I think it's fair to say that females, at least the demographic to whom pop music is marketed to, fell in love with Michael Jackson during his prime. I recall reading stories about how girls, both black and white, would pass out when they saw him in person at concerts. My friend had an older sister who, in the late 80s and early 90s, was in love with him, full stop. I don't need any more examples, we all know MJ was a hit with the ladies.

Since then, I can't think of one black entertainer who has appealed to American girls in the same way that MJ did. I doubt your typical suburban girl, white or black or otherwise, thinks that 50 Cent or Akon or the Yin Yang twins are cute and sweet.

It's easy to picture a girl lying in bed, clutching a picture of an entertainer like Zach Efron, dreaming about marrying him, but the same can't be said for an entertainer like Bow Wow. It would be absurd.

So why are cute, "wholesome" black entertainers no longer present in the world of teen idols?

Do record companies think it is too risky to promote a wholesome-looking black person? With the advent of hip-hop, are black entertainers only marketable as misogynistic thugs? Hasn't society progressed in the last 20 years?

residentEvil · Jul 23, 2007, 06:28 PM

maybe because young black athletes are getting better press and endourcements and thus the TV/news time? where as MTV and the ilk are only catering to the Idol crowd and that doesn't produce many choices?

Atomic Rooster · Jul 23, 2007, 06:29 PM

I was wondering the same thing about Indians.

Kerrigan · Jul 23, 2007, 06:33 PM

I started wondering about this after I saw Hairspray. To my mind, the most appealing character, and the one with the best dance scenes, was a black kid named Elijah Kelley. But, despite the tolerant message of the movie, he was treated as more of a novelty than a proper character. And I find it difficult to imagine him, or someone like him, to be taken seriously by white America.

Atomic Rooster · Jul 23, 2007, 06:42 PM

They're called token blacks.

lavar78 · Jul 23, 2007, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

It's easy to picture a girl lying in bed, clutching a picture of an entertainer like Zach Efron, dreaming about marrying him, but the same can't be said for an entertainer like Bow Wow. It would be absurd.

Why?

So why are cute, "wholesome" black entertainers no longer present in the world of teen idols?

Chris Brown? Mario? That kid from High School Musical?

peeb · Jul 23, 2007, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I think it's fair to say that females, at least the demographic to whom pop music is marketed to, fell in love with Michael Jackson during his prime.

Was he black at that point?

Kerrigan · 07:16 PM

Yes, of course.

He was smoking hot, and he happened to be black. We all know this. So why have no black performers since been able to cross the line from hip-hop into general pop music and gain a large fan-base of adoring girls who are representative of all races? If you really think your typical middle class girl wants to marry Akon, you're not living in reality.

So why do you think this is? Why is it that white artists have such an easy time appropriating black talent (eg Eminem, Justin Timberlake) but black artists have not been able to replicate with any measure of success Michael Jackson's crossover appeal as a wholesome entertainer?

I for one think part of it has to do with white customers, who lazily prefer the pop stereotypes of African Americans as thugs. Hip hop, like all top-20 music, is a fantasy, and it reflects the fantasies of those who buy into it.

Railroader · Jul 23, 2007, 07:06 PM

I actually thought my brother was gay back in jr. high school because he was a huge Michael Jackson fan. No posters of girls or cars, just ones of Jackson hung on his walls. He even owned a coat similar to the one posted above.

Faust · Jul 23, 2007, 07:16 PM

Has there at all been a true teen "idol"/or idols in the last 10 or so years?

I cannot think of one, not in the sense that James Dean, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Michael Jackson and even Nirvana/Pearl Jam were. And I am not surprised by it either as the media arena has grown immensely.

I would like to believe that it does not have anything to do with the colour of one's skin. I also know that this is wishful thinking because the world as it were is a lot more racist than it pretends to be. Not that much difference, just that it's turned from extroverted to more subtle introverted racism. Seems more fashionable to be politically correct these days in some parts of the world. It is and will continue to be an infinite problem.

Chuckit · Jul 23, 2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Faust

Has there at all been a true teen "idol"/or idols in the last 10 or so years?

I cannot think of one, not in the sense that James Dean, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Michael Jackson and even Nirvana/Pearl Jam were. And I am not surprised by it either as the media arena has grown immensely.

Are you kidding? They were springing up like mad. Hanson, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, 98° — these were pretty much all more "teen idols" than Pearl Jam ever was.

Faust · Jul 23, 2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Are you kidding? They were springing up like mad. Hanson, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, 98° — these were pretty much all more "teen idols" than Pearl Jam ever was.

Those were "in" when I was in my late teens. I never thought people fancied those boy bands idols. Nor do I think that any of the artists I listed are/were idols but I assumed those would be seen as such as they all had something "rebellious", "provocative (e.g. Sex Pistols)" or "new" whereas these boybands did not do anything that was new or daring in any which way.
But what do I know.

wallinbl · Jul 23, 2007, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Since then, I can't think of one black entertainer who has appealed to American girls in the same way that MJ did. I doubt your typical suburban girl, white or black or otherwise, thinks that 50 Cent or Akon or the Yin Yang twins are cute and sweet.

Will Smith

Kerrigan · Jul 23, 2007, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Will Smith

Touche (e with an accent)

andi*pandi · Jul 23, 2007, 09:16 PM

to a lesser extent, LL cool J?

RAILhead · Jul 23, 2007, 09:48 PM

Rumor · Jul 23, 2007, 10:13 PM

MJ was a bit different since he came from a Motown background, where todays artist don't have that luxury.

exca1ibur · Jul 23, 2007, 10:18 PM

The closet to MJ at this point is Usher, IMO. He has the most universal appeal.

Rumor · Jul 23, 2007, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

He's just begging to be a victim of grave robbery.

rgkgraphix · Jul 23, 2007, 10:34 PM

whatever happened to PM Dawn?

LOL

Faust · Jul 23, 2007, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Whatever happened to decency and humility?

Doofy · Jul 23, 2007, 11:05 PM

What about that bloke out of the boy band "Blue"? He gets the honeys swooning and he's wholesome (AFAIK).

Is F1 entertainment? If so there's Lewis Hamilton.

Jawbone54 · Jul 24, 2007, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Will Smith

GREAT example.

Chris Rock seems to be popular with the mainstream (or DID, at least). He just wasn't a sex symbol.

Michael Jordan was universal, he just wasn't a musician.

Rumor · Jul 24, 2007, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Chris Rock seems to be popular with the mainstream (or DID, at least). He just wasn't a sex symbol.

Chris Rock looks like a crack head. Ever see Dogma?

Jawbone54 · Jul 24, 2007, 01:17 AM

I'm convinced he IS a crackhead. I'm always wondering if his eyes are ever going to just pop out.

It always amazed me what he could get away with saying, too.

skipjack · 02:22 AM

Deleted

analogika · Jul 24, 2007, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Faust

Those were "in" when I was in my late teens. I never thought people fancied those boy bands idols. Nor do I think that any of the artists I listed are/were idols but I assumed those would be seen as such as they all had something "rebellious", "provocative (e.g. Sex Pistols)" or "new" whereas these boybands did not do anything that was new or daring in any which way.
But what do I know.

Have you any idea what happens at these guys' concerts?

Doofy · Jul 24, 2007, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Have you any idea what happens at these guys' concerts?

People grow pubic hair and are quite pleased with themselves for doing so?

analogika · Jul 24, 2007, 05:13 AM

Just before dozens of them pass out from screaming, yes.

Just reminded me: You know the old joke, right?

Two twelve-year-old girls in the playground:
"I just got my first pubic hair!"
"Well - does it get in the way of f***ing?"

OAW · Jul 24, 2007, 11:30 AM

Usher, Chris Brown, and Ne-yo are 3 that I can think of right off the top of my head that are emulating the old MJ on so many levels. There are others, but the thing to remember is that "black entertainers" are numerous and varied. They are present in a variety of genres from R&B to Hip Hop to Neo-Soul to Jazz and Blues. They are even found in Rock and Pop as well. In fact, much of today's "Pop" music is "R&B" given the popularity of the genre. Let's not fall into the trap of judging all black entertainers based upon the images projected by those at the top of the Hip Hop charts. And if you do choose to go there, please don't forget that the negative images and lyrics that are so roundly criticized in Hip Hop are primarily produced, marketed, and consumed by people who don't look like the rappers. I'm just saying ....

OAW

IceEnclosure · Jul 26, 2007, 01:10 AM

Some of you are out of touch-ish.

MJ had a Motown background and a striiiing of hits dating back to the Jackson 5. I had a red zipper jacket (Railroader, you called it a coat? huh?) I had the fsckin' glove too. And posters(the one where he's laying with the tiger, and the one where he's in a yellow sweater vest, sick). Pop was different then.

Usher and Chris Brown are real big right now. Usher has been BIG for 10 years or somesuch. "Nice 'n Slow" came out in '98. WTF is Nice 'n Slow you ask? See? you're out of touch. (The booty remix of that track is still tight).

When these guys pop lock and slide girls go crazy. Serially. YouTube that shiit.

Chris Rock? wtf? Will Smith even?

Pop is different now, again. There's 4000x the amount of music out there than there was in the 80's. I'm a fan of so many different types of music it's ridiculous, and a good portion of it is nonsensical/sexual/fun/dancy/crunk/etc type music.

-------------------

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Are you kidding? They were springing up like mad. Hanson, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, 98° — these were pretty much all more "teen idols" than Pearl Jam ever was.

heh, those bands all sucked royally. Justin Timberlake made it out alive tho, and is now extra golden. He's also like half black now too.

Zach Efron? wtf is that? (oh, he's an actor)

I vote for Webster Popadopolis and Arnold Drummond, cause the world don't move to the beat of just one drum.

Rumor · Jul 26, 2007, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

MJ was a bit different since he came from a Motown background, where todays artist don't have that luxury.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Some of you are out of touch-ish.

MJ had a Motown background and a striiiing of hits dating back to the Jackson 5.

IceEnclosure · Jul 26, 2007, 03:29 AM

With a Rebel Yell, I was just reiterating. Backing you up.

Rumor · Jul 26, 2007, 03:49 AM

Kick ass.

IceEnclosure · Jul 26, 2007, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

Have you any idea what happens at these guys' concerts?

I hope I don't come off as whatever, but:

homedude on the left in the camo, wtf. icy hot stunnaz. He must be the bad boy of the group. And the guy on the right must be the cowboy guy who beats up the guys who want to beat up the "bad boy" in the camo. The guy in back just missed his chance to be the top of the food chain in a school shooting by a couple of hours perhaps. And the chick in the center, well crap, she just looks like a 14 year old boy. What a bunch of pansies.

We Bite? yea, the cock, while wearing your wal-mart graphic tees.

that is all.

Rumor · Jul 26, 2007, 11:44 AM

Good job.

Dakarʒ · Jul 26, 2007, 11:46 AM

he guy in back just missed his chance to be the top of the food chain in a school shooting

Disturbingly true. All he's missing is the Matrix jacket and an AK.

analogika · Jul 26, 2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

And the chick in the center, well crap, she just looks like a 14 year old boy.

That's not too bad, considering she is an 18-year-old boy.

Meet the boy group Tokio Hotel, Germany's #1 band, currently in the process of being exported Europe-wide:

Tokio Hotel - offizielle homepage | � Universal Music
(as I just found, their newer stuff is apparently at least partly in English to facilitate export. Huh.)

Sales to date: 3.5 million albums.

Primary demographic: pre-teen to mid-teen girls.

IceEnclosure · Jul 26, 2007, 09:37 PM

Germany ay? Hasselhoff: A billion some odd people can't be wrong.

I don't respect album sales so much these days anyhow.

Oh, and what 18 year old boy wants to look like a girl who looks like a 14 year old boy?

analogika · Jul 27, 2007, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Germany ay? Hasselhoff: A billion some odd people can't be wrong.

Hmm. Hasselhoff is American, and Germany has 80 million, including pensioners and toddlers.

Wanna re-think that?

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I don't respect album sales so much these days anyhow.

Au contraire: Album sales are MUCH more difficult to achieve these days. 3.5 mil is tremendous in light of the industry's current state.

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

Oh, and what 18 year old boy wants to look like a girl who looks like a 14 year old boy?

One who makes more in these few years than you do in a lifetime?

moonmonkey · Jul 27, 2007, 02:00 AM

one of my best friends is black.

analogika · Jul 27, 2007, 03:05 AM

One of my best friends is pretty entertaining.

moonmonkey · Jul 27, 2007, 03:55 AM

I think it must be the same guy.

analogika · Jul 27, 2007, 04:01 AM

Could be. I used to live in Hong Kong.

moonmonkey · Jul 27, 2007, 05:08 AM

Great, I will say hello for you.

IceEnclosure · Jul 27, 2007, 10:50 AM

80 Mil, a Billion, whatev. We all know where the 'Hoff is from, thanks tho.
America rules, Germany drools-while watching this:
YouTube - Hooked on a feeling

Chuck Norris vs. The Hoff, who wins? (keeping in mind the hoff can use KITT in this battle)

analogika · Jul 27, 2007, 05:07 PM

In an ideal world, K.I.T.T. relies upon Chuck Norris.

And if you want the true depths of agony, try this for size:

YouTube - David "The Hoff" Hasselhoff - Jump In My Car

Kerrigan · Jul 27, 2007, 05:24 PM

I'll take 1980s MJ, thank you.

utpalmarshall · Jul 31, 2007, 09:06 PM

Here is a link to a story of a remarkable lady. She was born with a great gift and was on the verge of finding a career on stage but instead used her talents in a different way.

YouTube - More Than A Beautiful Voice

If the link does not open than just do a search on you tube for
More than a beautiful voice

The story tells of unique neighborhood in New York where a who's who of black entertainers and sports stars lived, Not least of which was James Brown who lived just across the street. But besides history it is about a voice that touches and inspires

much thanks
Utpal