[Mithras]

I'm looking for the perfect (or at least the best) setup for family email.

The Requirements
These are pretty simple, yet apparently hard to do right.

1. Personal domain support
I have a family domain (as per sig link), and the email service has to let us send and receive mails using these addresses.

2. IMAP
The era of what-computer-did-I-download-that-onto is over.
Related concept: has to support desktop clients access to the real email store (sorry, Gmail).

3. Good webmail client
That means AJAX fanciness, or at least usability. It means good search (sorry, Squirrelmail).

That's it. That's all I want.

The Contenders
I've personally used most of the following at various points:

- DreamHost Web Hosting - with the default Squirrelmail webmail
- FastMail.fm
- Google Apps
- http://mac.com
- http://mail.yahoo.com

and I'd welcome any other nominees.

The Ratings
These are my impressions of how each of the services stacks up on the features:


The Winner
None of them!

Dreamhost might work if I can install some better webmail client. There's RoundCube, for example. But that's very beta and I dunno if the search is any good.
Fastmail is a very nice service, but the webmail client is a little tired, and shows no sign of changing soon.
Google Apps is great, but the POP-only access just sucks for a Mail.app user like me.
.mac would be a great option if they'd just support custom domains for the email -- or even just picking a different 'From' address in the webmail client.
Yahoo I've never used, but I hear the new Ajaxy webmail client is good. Apparently they briefly enabled IMAP, but have shut it down again.

One possibility is to combine Google Apps and Dreamhost, with one of these setups:
1. Email delivers to Google. Forwards automatically to a totally separate Dreamhost account; use this account for desktop access, and occasionally access the Gmail from the web.
2. Email delivers to Dreamhost account. Forward to a totally separate Gmail/GoogleApps account.

but I don't really like the fact that the sent mail will probably get out of sync, and none of the IMAP folders would exist in Gmail.

Your thoughts
Surely some of the rest of you face a similar dilemma?

[zerostar]

I would think .mac would suit your needs, they support Using your personal web address with .Mac and I would figure you could setup your hosting to forward to a corresponding .mac account. It is a bit pricey but at least you get 10GB storage and 100GB transfer.

You can get it for $79 usually for the year and then add any emails from there, it seems to be the only all in one that supports your needs.

Plus you get the bonus of tight Mac integration, do you or your family use iPhoto, iWeb or iMovie? Perhaps they will, having your kids setup a site/blog/web gallery is a pretty neat experience.

[imitchellg5]

Why does no IMAP suck for you if you use Mail? Mail works great with POP.

[zerostar]

because I think he is looking to use IMAP so when he goes to webmail it is all there and in folders? I know with POP you can do a leave on server, but thats no substitute.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

I would think .mac would suit your needs, they support Using your personal web address with .Mac

They support forwarding a website address to the gallery pages, but they don't support being the MX for your domain. Moreover, the .Mac webmail doesn't even support choosing an alternate 'From' address: Apple Discussions thread.

I agree that if they just add that one feature, .Mac would be a great option.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

Your thoughts
Surely some of the rest of you face a similar dilemma?

You are right.

Squirrelmail is probably the weakest link in the otherwise strong Dreamhost setup.

I have tried RoundCube Webmail Project , which has a nice GUI, but is rather feature-less.
All IMPA webmail clients have issues with large number of emails in an Inbox or subfolder. That's just the way it is.

I never had the time to fiddle with Zimbra, which seems powerful, but complicated to set up.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

1. Email delivers to Google. Forwards automatically to a totally separate Dreamhost account; use this account for desktop access, and occasionally access the Gmail from the web.
2. Email delivers to Dreamhost account. Forward to a totally separate Gmail/GoogleApps account.

Oh, if you trust Google, then https://www.google.com/a/ is your solution:

Switching to Gmail from DreamHost at Notes from a messy desk

-t

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

and I'd welcome any other nominees.

ICDSoft.com - The Ultimate in Web Hosting
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[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

because I think he is looking to use IMAP so when he goes to webmail it is all there and in folders? I know with POP you can do a leave on server, but thats no substitute.

Why is it no substitute? I use it like this all the time on multiple machines and it works great. I dislike IMAP because it only downloads the headers for me (could be an option, I'm not sure)... what if I want to read the rest and I am not connected? Anyway, POP works great when you have the "leave on server" flag set.

I'd go with google apps. It's free for family use and it provides what you're looking for.

[MacosNerd]

I had dreamhost and got sick of their outages/slowdowns the last couple of years. I always kept my .mac account and to be honest its been more reliable then dreamhost, a good web front end and it just works. Tough to fight that argument at least from my perspective. The spam filter was a little weak but it seems to be getting better as I'm getting less garbage. Overall a good solution.

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[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You are right.

Squirrelmail is probably the weakest link in the otherwise strong Dreamhost setup.

I have tried RoundCube Webmail Project , which has a nice GUI, but is rather feature-less.
All IMPA webmail clients have issues with large number of emails in an Inbox or subfolder. That's just the way it is.

I never had the time to fiddle with Zimbra, which seems powerful, but complicated to set up.

-t

Zimbra also requires their own IMAP server, replaces your MTA, etc. It's more of an Exchange replacement on a dedicated server.

Looks like this research is well done! I'd give Roundcube a try to cover your bases, since it is indeed quite spiffy (although lacking in features, as others have said).

There are several commercial webmail clients out there such as AtMail, but I suppose you are interested in free solutions...

[Lava Lamp Freak]

I have finally found a solution that I am happy with.

I have my Dreamhost mail forwarding to Gmail, which then forwards back to another Dreamhost email account. I use RoundCube webmail to check the 2nd Dreamhost email account. This way I can use IMAP and have the excellent spam filter of Google. I researched for awhile trying to figure out what to do after I bought my iPhone. I wanted to have IMAP so that I'd be able to share e-mail between my phone, Mail.app at home, and webmail at work. This way seems to work the best. I have found RoundCube to be great, but it does have a few bugs. Even with said bugs, it still blows Squirrelmail all to hell.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

I have finally found a solution that I am happy with.

I have my Dreamhost mail forwarding to Gmail, which then forwards back to another Dreamhost email account. I use RoundCube webmail to check the 2nd Dreamhost email account. This way I can use IMAP and have the excellent spam filter of Google. I researched for awhile trying to figure out what to do after I bought my iPhone. I wanted to have IMAP so that I'd be able to share e-mail between my phone, Mail.app at home, and webmail at work. This way seems to work the best. I have found RoundCube to be great, but it does have a few bugs. Even with said bugs, it still blows Squirrelmail all to hell.

Will Dreamhost do any spam filtering for you? SpamAssassin?

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Will Dreamhost do any spam filtering for you? SpamAssassin?

Yes, but I've never been happy with it. Gmail is plug and play, really. SpamAssassin requires you to customize it to work right.

How is .Mac's spam filtering?

[Peter]

I used to use Dreamhost for email, but they have such terrible uptime.
It doesn't matter for websites if your site is offline for 5 minutes, if your email is offline it's bloody annoying

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

How is .Mac's spam filtering?

.Mac's spam filtering has historically been very weak, but I've been getting less spam lately, hopefully they continue to increase its accuracy. I'm getting one to four emails daily that are spam. Is that a lot? I don't know.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

Yes, but I've never been happy with it. Gmail is plug and play, really. SpamAssassin requires you to customize it to work right.

How is .Mac's spam filtering?

Does Dreamhost allow you to create your own sieve/mail filter rules to automatically file into your Junk folder based on spam score? Is this sort of flexibility not desirable?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

.Mac's spam filtering has historically been very weak, but I've been getting less spam lately, hopefully they continue to increase its accuracy. I'm getting one to four emails daily that are spam. Is that a lot? I don't know.

We wouldn't know without measuring the ratio of amount of spam passed:amount of spam caught.

I'm assuming .Mac doesn't have an interface for adjusting spam score filtering either?

Just wondering if any major email provider offers such a feature...

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

I have finally found a solution that I am happy with.

I have my Dreamhost mail forwarding to Gmail, which then forwards back to another Dreamhost email account. I use RoundCube webmail to check the 2nd Dreamhost email account. This way I can use IMAP and have the excellent spam filter of Google. I researched for awhile trying to figure out what to do after I bought my iPhone. I wanted to have IMAP so that I'd be able to share e-mail between my phone, Mail.app at home, and webmail at work. This way seems to work the best. I have found RoundCube to be great, but it does have a few bugs. Even with said bugs, it still blows Squirrelmail all to hell.

Thanks, I'm leaning towards this kind of a solution as well.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

There are several commercial webmail clients out there such as AtMail, but I suppose you are interested in free solutions...

AtMail looks pretty cool. It would come out at around $300 for my basic needs, which is $300 more than I would rather spend, but it might be worth it. It's definitely a very capable webmail client.

I'll just have to spend a little time investigating how decent its address book integration, etc. is.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

We wouldn't know without measuring the ratio of amount of spam passed:amount of spam caught.

I'm assuming .Mac doesn't have an interface for adjusting spam score filtering either?

Just wondering if any major email provider offers such a feature...

To my knowledge there's no way to measure, adjust or interact with the spam filter. The only way I can measure it is that is I see a decrease or an increase in spam. I'm holding steady between 1to 4 emails, as I mentioned earlier. Earlier (months/last year maybe) I was getting double that., my surfing habits haven't changed either. I don't give that email out to any online form etc.

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Does Dreamhost allow you to create your own sieve/mail filter rules to automatically file into your Junk folder based on spam score? Is this sort of flexibility not desirable?

I don't remember there being a way to create custom rules, but it did allow me to change the threshold to adjust the amount of junk e-mails caught. I was never able to get it to a point that even came close to what I have seen with Gmail. Right now I rarely see spam. My spam folder on Gmail has 89 messages right now going back to Aug 1. I only had 1 spam make it through in that period, and the same message made it though the spam filters at work, too. The subject was a number, and the body was a HEX code. The numbers were different in the message I got at work, though. Very odd.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

AtMail looks pretty cool. It would come out at around $300 for my basic needs, which is $300 more than I would rather spend, but it might be worth it. It's definitely a very capable webmail client.

I'll just have to spend a little time investigating how decent its address book integration, etc. is.

I'm very familiar with AtMail, as as we speak I'm working on migrating our 160,000 + Webmail accounts over to it. Let me know if you have any questions about it I might be able to answer.

[Mithras]

Sweet Mother God -- Gmail gets IMAP - Download Squad

[Lava Lamp Freak]

Jesus H Christ in a basket. It's working!

[mdc]

Has it been turned on for anyone's account yet?
I have three accounts with GMail. One @gmail.com and two personal domains and none of them have the option to turn on IMAP yet.

[Mithras]

Try logging out of the @gmail account and logging back in. That did the trick for two of my accounts.
No dice yet on my Google Apps accounts either, but presumably that's in the works.

[besson3c]

Glad to see it happening! POP just doesn't seem to make much sense anymore as people demand more and more flexibility with their email.

[paul w]

This rules. That was the one thing that bugged me about having my primary email be a gmail account, especially with use with the iPhone.

[nonhuman]

MediaTemple uses @mail and meets all your requirements. While they're more expensive that you'd probably want for just hosting an email server, I'm going to be switching to them from Dreamhost in the very near future and would be more than happy to host your email server for you. Obviously I'd want to charge some sort of fee, but I guarantee it would be a fair price that we can agree on and is cheaper than what you'd pay for anyone else since everyone else would be trying to get you to pay for web hosting and all that other stuff too ...although I could resell you a small bit of my web hosting too (completely with your own control panel) if you're interested, a MediaTemple dv account makes reselling very easy.

[theDreamer]

Originally Posted by mdc 

Has it been turned on for anyone's account yet?
I have three accounts with GMail. One @gmail.com and two personal domains and none of them have the option to turn on IMAP yet.

I tried this morning on my primary and it was not there. I found out that they are slowly going through all the accounts each and should have them done quickly.
Lets hope quickly means by the end of the day.

[residentEvil]

gmail now with IMAP and 4GB of space...

[Laminar]

This is weird...my main Gmail account has IMAP available but the accounts I created for spam and for facebook don't have the option...

[zerostar]

One of mine does, my old one (back when it was invite only) still has no IMAP, I imagine a few days all will be well, this is good news for my iPhone

[besson3c]

There are probably many nodes in the GMail server pool, many machines that need the updated code and expiration of old caches.