[Koralatov]

I think it has. I've bought quite a few (admittedly small) things on eBay recently, and only got feedback left 50% or so of the time. Sellers now seem to wait until you leave feedback before they do--probably so if you leave negative, they can leave negative back. That is not the way it's meant to work.

If I pay for my goods in a timely fashion, and am courteous in any correspondence I have with the seller, I should get positive feedback left immediately. They shouldn't hold out to see what kind of feeback I'll leave them before they leave it, if they bother to leave it at all.

So... the question is: is eBay's feedback system breaking down, or am I just unlucky?

[red rocket]

I've been selling quite a lot on eBay recently, so this question is relevant to my interests.

I believe the buyer should leave feedback first.

The way I see it, the transaction isn't complete until the buyer has taken possession of the item. I, as the seller, am supposed to leave a rating for the transaction (in effect praise for the buyer) based on the fact that the buyer has paid? That isn't enough. He could yet be causing me all sorts of trouble, why should I praise him in advance?

[MacosNerd]

I've been on both sides of the fence (buyer and seller) and as a buyer I wait till the seller leaves feedback. Why, well with most sellers they probably have a lot auctions going on and there's little incentive for them to leave feedback if the sale is complete and the buyer left feedback.

I also concur most probably wait to because they'll see if its negative.

As a seller I always post feedback but about 50% of the buyers never leave me feedback - even after a couple of emails. I don't nag because I'll probably get negative feedback

Overall I'm content w/o getting the feedback, I figure no feedback is better then neutral or negative. I work hard at maintaining a 100% positive feedback if some high maintenance buyers (I've had a few) fail to leave feedback I can live with that.

[ghporter]

eBay worked fine when people used it for personal stuff, and even quite a bit of specialty merchandise. Today, it's so bloody commercialized (along with being flooded with more crap stuff than I though ever existed) that the "thanks for a great buying experience" culture has indeed broken down. I haven't even bothered looking at their site in quite a while-why bother wading through the crud and overpriced crap?

Fortunately, there are other ways to do this sort of thing-Craigslist is still working ok as far as I know, but it's never been as hyped or over-produced as eBay...

[IceEnclosure]

Buyer should leave feedback first.

I sell on ebay occasionally, and I agree that the transaction isn't complete until the buyer has RECEIVED the item and is happy with it. At which point, they should leave feedback.

[KeriVit]

Yeah, I wait for the buyer and as a buyer I go first. But, none of my buyers (4) have left feedback. It pisses me off cuz I would like feedback as a seller to bump me up.

[lavar78]

You guys may have a point about the buyer leaving feedback first, but it's usually been the other way around for as long as I can remember. In attempting to shift that paradigm, it appears feedback isn't being left in a timely fashion by either party. I think eBay would do well to offer a suggestion on which party should leave feedback first.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I believe the buyer should leave feedback first.

The way I see it, the transaction isn't complete until the buyer has taken possession of the item. I, as the seller, am supposed to leave a rating for the transaction (in effect praise for the buyer) based on the fact that the buyer has paid? That isn't enough. He could yet be causing me all sorts of trouble, why should I praise him in advance?

I totally disagree with that. Once I've paid for the item, my part in it is now over. Sure, I've got to actually receive the item, but I'm not going to blame the seller if Royal Mail/Parcel Force batters my package to a pulp--provided they packed it properly.

I genuinely don’t think that the buyer should have to be the first to leave feedback—why should I leave feedback on the off-chance that the seller might decide to be decent about it and leave feedback for me? It’s a two-way thing, but most buyers seem to want two things: your money, and positive feedback.

Once they’ve got those, the buyer has absolutely no power whatsoever, and thus the seller can just shrug their shoulders and say, “I got what I wanted. I’m not going to spend the minute it takes to help this guy out. Why should I?”

And besides, leaving aside that I disagree with your argument, you don’t address my real issue: why the hell seller’s aren’t leaving feedback even once I’ve left it for them. Regardless of our big-endian/litte-endian approach to ordering feedback, the issue still remains that people aren’t leaving it. And that is total crap.

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I've been on both sides of the fence (buyer and seller) and as a buyer I wait till the seller leaves feedback. Why, well with most sellers they probably have a lot auctions going on and there's little incentive for them to leave feedback if the sale is complete and the buyer left feedback.

I also concur most probably wait to because they'll see if its negative.

As a seller I always post feedback but about 50% of the buyers never leave me feedback - even after a couple of emails. I don't nag because I'll probably get negative feedback

Overall I'm content w/o getting the feedback, I figure no feedback is better then neutral or negative. I work hard at maintaining a 100% positive feedback if some high maintenance buyers (I've had a few) fail to leave feedback I can live with that.

I concur completely with your first point. Once I’ve (stupidly) left feedback first, the seller isn’t going to bother themselves to leave you any. As I said above, the seller then has all the power, and it makes no difference to them whether they leave feedback or not—they’ve got everything they want out of the transaction. Your second point is also right on the money, I’d say.

I think I’ve sold two items on eBay in four years, and I always left feedback first. Personally, I don’t expect it to work any other way; they’ve paid for it, and supplied me with instructions to ship it and the like, so they’re done their bit. Thus, I leave them feedback. I didn’t wait to see whether they left negative feedback, because I was confident in the quality and quantity of packaging I’d used to send it in.

Largely, I’m the same when it comes to feedback—I’d rather get none at all than a negative, but it does still irritate me.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

eBay worked fine when people used it for personal stuff, and even quite a bit of specialty merchandise. Today, it's so bloody commercialized (along with being flooded with more crap stuff than I though ever existed) that the "thanks for a great buying experience" culture has indeed broken down. I haven't even bothered looking at their site in quite a while-why bother wading through the crud and overpriced crap?

Fortunately, there are other ways to do this sort of thing-Craigslist is still working ok as far as I know, but it's never been as hyped or over-produced as eBay...

I agree with what you’re saying regarding the commercialisation of eBay—it seems that every second personon there now is a shop or a Power Seller. And I agree that it’s ruined the spirit of the thing. People used to actually give a damn about helping you out, and would go out of their way to leave you feedback, but now it’s all about the money, and the atmosphere is largely ruined as a result of it.

The problem with Craigslist is that it hasn’t really taken off in the UK to the same extent, and the best place to get stuff is still eBay...

[TETENAL]

How hard would it technically be for eBay, to hide the feedback until both parties have voted?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

How hard would it technically be for eBay, to hide the feedback until both parties have voted?

Probably not very hard at all. But the issue is that eBay should REQUIRE both parties to submit feedback, plus have a really good system to arbitrate when someone gets pissy about something. I've seen scams involving "give me great feedback or I'll give you awful feedback." Bad!

[alligator]

I'm a seller, waiting for buyer feedback first. I can't tell if they are going to complain, so I'll wait until they post positive feedback before I'll post my selling feedback.

[IceEnclosure]

Koralatov, I'm a seller on ebay. I place a high value on positive feedback from the buyer, and always make sure to leave feedback for every transaction.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by alligator 

I'm a seller, waiting for buyer feedback first. I can't tell if they are going to complain, so I'll wait until they post positive feedback before I'll post my selling feedback.

Therein lies the problem... giving positive feedback only if positive feedback is given. If the person was a great buyer and paid right away, you should post that instead of waiting for his review of you.

It reminds me of the old days of the internet where people would give away awards to people's websites; "I'll give you an award if you give me one". Lol, those were funny days... people had 10-20 "awards" for their website that some random Joes had given them.

Anyway, give a rating based on the truth rather than on vengeance or spite.

Disclosure: I hate eBay and very very very rarely buy through it.

[Big Mac]

I agree with torsoboy - give positive feedback when it's deserved, not based on your expectation that you should receive positive feedback in return - and you won't have a problem with feedback. Some people just won't leave feedback. I simply disregard them - it's a tiny bit disappointing, but it's not worth getting angry over. I don't think the system is breaking down.

[Koralatov]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Probably not very hard at all. But the issue is that eBay should REQUIRE both parties to submit feedback, plus have a really good system to arbitrate when someone gets pissy about something. I've seen scams involving "give me great feedback or I'll give you awful feedback." Bad!

I think that would be the best set-up to employ, as it would ensure feeback was left by both parties. It also gives the buyer some element of influence back.

The way I would propose doing it is as follows: both parties are required to leave feedback before it becomes active. Namely, the seller won't receive the feedback left by the buyer until they've posted some. Just to remove any blackmail opportunities, I'd make neither set of feedback visible until both sets had been left. That way, the seller is required to leave feedback to get theirs, but can't leave negative feedback as revenge.

Originally Posted by alligator 

I'm a seller, waiting for buyer feedback first. I can't tell if they are going to complain, so I'll wait until they post positive feedback before I'll post my selling feedback.

That is exactly the kind of attitude that ruins the feedback system totally. You can basically boil your above statement down to "I'll only be nice if they're nice to me." Situations do arise when the buyer has been exemplary in their conduct during the transaction, but the seller has not. It's happened to me before. So why should I be penalised if I tell the truth and say that the transaction was not a smooth or pleasant one?

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

Koralatov, I'm a seller on ebay. I place a high value on positive feedback from the buyer, and always make sure to leave feedback for every transaction.

I don't doubt that you do, IceEnclosure. Yet the fact still remains that about 50% of sellers don't make the effort to leave feedback once I've left it for them.

On a related note, I've noticed that "professional" sellers (as in those with large numbers of items up for auction) and stores seem to be significantly less likely to leave feedback than someone who's just selling some bric-a-brac they have lying around their house. Again, I think this is related to the commercialistion of eBay, as mentioned by ghporter earlier.

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Koralatov

Yet the fact still remains that about 50% of sellers don't make the effort to leave feedback once I've left it for them.

That goes both ways. I've had transactions where I've put a lot of effort into the item description, photographs, extensive pre-sale communication with the bidder, top-notch packaging and extremely fast shipment, even made the mistake of leaving my feedback first, only to find that the buyer can't be bothered to leave me any feedback in return. The first time that happened, I was disappointed. The second time, I was pissed off. The third time, that's when I decided the buyers can leave their feedback first.

The whole eBay/PayPal system is completely biased in favour of the buyers, anyway. No protection for sellers, whatsoever.

[Mastrap]

I still use ebay, but only to check prices for very specific items. I just got a refurbished turntable at a fraction of the price it would have cost me new.

[Faust]

I think eBay is an exorbitant luxury. I am a buyer mostly but, occasionally, I'd sell something there as well such as my Macs. I even buy my new BTO Macs on eBay. I've never had a single problem. It's just so unduly convenient.