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iranfromthezoo · Sep 22, 2007, 12:26 PM

Hey guys, I technically will be buying my first car in a few months. I`ve bought many but not by myself. I'm 20 so I am still young and it's even fun I went to two dealerships on a wednesday morning at 10 am and no one talked to me. I then went to another one after work (with fire dept uniform on) and two people came to me automatically...what is that about?

I am looking at buying a Ford Fusion. I drove it and really like the styling, ride, MPG and the reviews on it. I really don't want to go into debt being young so I don't want to go over $22,000 for a car but I talked the salesman down to $17,000 on a 2007 with 20 miles. Along with a $2500 Ford Firefighters Discount. I was wondering if you guys had advice on the subject? Do I need to go to others and see if they will beat the price and what not?

TheWOAT · Sep 22, 2007, 12:34 PM

So wait, you got it down to 17,000, or 17k minus a firefighter rebate?
I dont think you will be able to find a better price than that... Are you looking at the S, SE, SEL model? V6 or I4?

Cold Warrior · Sep 22, 2007, 01:05 PM

Do you have a good credit score? Any trade-in vehicle?

You can get a lot accomplished over the phone. Just call dealerships and ask around. If you visit high-pressure dealerships, be prepared for all the mind games. The most effective method when dealing with high-pressure dealerships is to walk off the lot -- or make it look like you will. Also, if you give them your trade-in to look over, keep a spare key, because they will play hide-the-key with it in order to keep you there.

angelmb · Sep 22, 2007, 01:14 PM

Just curious… that Ford Fusion is not related to the car with the same name Ford sells over Europe, right?.

TheWOAT · Sep 22, 2007, 01:30 PM

I believe its very similar under the hood, chassis, suspension.

ajprice · Sep 22, 2007, 01:33 PM

Yep they are completely different cars angelmb, just have the same name.

US Fusion

European Fusion

iranfromthezoo · Sep 22, 2007, 01:40 PM

Yeah I have good credit...They wanted to run it but I told them no. I am looking at the S model 4 banger. I would love the SE or SEL but I really don't want to devote a whole paycheck to a car payment. I got it down to 17 after my FF discount. The sticker price was $20,000.

And yes this is the American car...Actually it's black also.

Lateralus · Sep 22, 2007, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

They wanted to run it but I told them no.

I didn't know you could still do that and actually leave with a car.

Coincidentally, I'm also looking at a Fusion as my first new car. But I have zero credit and every time I even look into landing a new ride, I'm completely put off by the kind of interest rates that are thrown at me. I have zero credit, not bad credit.

Worst I've experienced was through a local Chevy dealer last year that wanted me in at 27% interest plus $2500 down. And this was on a then three year old Cavalier.

angelmb · Sep 22, 2007, 02:27 PM

Thanks for the clarification. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder I think the Euro Fusion is… horrid.

Don't take me wrong but I wonder, don't you find the American Fusion -which btw looks much like the outgoing Euro Mondeo only better- too big for such a young driver?, of course this is kind of ignorance speaking, not everyone has the same needs @ his-her twenties and/or maybe you just like cars that big or maybe it is the best bang for the buck inside the Ford range… damn ignorance speaking

cjrivera · Sep 22, 2007, 02:30 PM

I took a Fusion for test drive and was very surprised. Handled very well for a car in this class. A really good value in this class.

$17K sounds like a decent deal, but I would check a few other dealers and see what they can come up with.

iranfromthezoo · 02:56 PM

Really? This Fusion is at 3.0% for 60 months. I thought that was a great deal. Full coverage insurance and all would all add up to be around $421 a month.

angel, I understand what your saying but a Focus just wouldn't be big enough for me. I work for a Fire Dept so I am usually having to put all my gear in my car after shifts and such. I also just like that style of a car. I like the safety aspects of the car and can respect that better than a GM. The only thing I wish they didn't have were side airbags and the side curtain airbags...I've seen them in action and they do more harm than good.

A f150 is what I really want but I can't justify paying $30,000 for a truck.

Also Lateralus I built my credit up by taking out a 180 day loan. I took around $4,000 out, put it in savings and then once the 180 days were up I pay the entire thing off. It really boosted my credit score from a 545 to a 690.

Lateralus · 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

Also Lateralus I built my credit up by taking out a 180 day loan. I took around $4,000 out, put it in savings and then once the 180 days were up I pay the entire thing off. It really boosted my credit score from a 545 to a 690.

Did you do it through your bank? Because I've been with mine for 9 years (since I was 14) and they wont approve me for a $500 loan, let alone $4,000.

iranfromthezoo · Sep 22, 2007, 05:51 PM

Yeah I went through my bank..Why can't you go to a different bank?

turboSPE · Sep 23, 2007, 01:16 AM

Check the edmunds.com true market value with the options on the car you're looking at. What else have you driven?

turboSPE

SpaceMonkey · Sep 23, 2007, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Don't take me wrong but I wonder, don't you find the American Fusion -which btw looks much like the outgoing Euro Mondeo only better- too big for such a young driver?

Dude, this is America! The bigger the better!

Tiresias · Sep 23, 2007, 02:41 AM

I rather like that one.

red rocket · Sep 23, 2007, 06:26 AM

I think new cars are a waste of money. Buy a second hand BMW or something.

Kevin · Sep 23, 2007, 06:30 AM

I'd never buy a used car unless I knew the previous owner, or the previous owner left a lot of info about the car behind (oil change history etc)

Paco500 · Sep 23, 2007, 06:30 AM

Not to sound too much like Rob here, but have you considered a newer used car? Whatever the relative merits of the Fusion, Ford cars are not known for keeping their resale value. In a matter a minuets, you will have a car worth much less than when you bought it. And being a young male, you are likely to start thinking about the next car within about a week of buying the first.

Getting bogged down in a car loan you are all but assured to be "upside down" on right from the start may not be the best choice.

Just a thought.

timmerk · Sep 23, 2007, 08:43 PM

Anyone know what car dealerships consider being bad, good, and great credit? The poster said he had 690, which I always thought was not that great, since I think the scale is between 450 and 850, but I could be wrong.

KeriVit · Sep 23, 2007, 08:57 PM

Mine is 750- considered excellent. 690 is better than good.

Kevin · Sep 24, 2007, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Paco500

Not to sound too much like Rob here, but have you considered a newer used car?

Just because Rob says it doesn't mean he is wrong. Rob is full of interesting true facts. He's a smart fellah. Sometimes he just lets his emotions and ego take over. And that isn't so smart.

Paco500 · 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Just because Rob says it doesn't mean he is wrong. Rob is full of interesting true facts. He's a smart fellah. Sometimes he just lets his emotions and ego take over. And that isn't so smart.

Yeah, I find myself agreeing with Rob more than not, but it sometimes feels like saying "yeah, Hitler was bad, but at least the trains ran on time."

Except not quite so much.

EDIT:

Thought about this a bit. I think I need to clarify that I don't think Rob is as bad as Hitler. Or even close.

Hitler was really, REALLY bad. Rob is just excitable. Maybe it's closer to really liking a book that's on Oprah's list.

Person Man · Sep 24, 2007, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Did you do it through your bank? Because I've been with mine for 9 years (since I was 14) and they wont approve me for a $500 loan, let alone $4,000.

They still don't have any record on how you'd pay it off. You should get someone with credit to co-sign your loan (like ask a parent). That way, if you default on the loan for some reason, they can go after the co-signer.

They use the co-signer's credit to establish the loan, which is in your name. As you make payments, it goes on your credit history. At the end of the loan, you have your own history.

Another way to establish credit is to get a secured credit card. One that requires you to pay them a certain amount up front, like $500. The issuing bank can use your deposit as insurance in case you default. Your credit limit is usually between 50-100% of the amount you have on deposit. The catch is that you can't just treat it like a debit card. You pay back what you use, as you use it. So, if you charge $200 to the card, you pay them $200 at the end of the month when the bill is due. After a certain amount of time you can get your deposit back and convert the card to an unsecured one.

peeb · Sep 24, 2007, 12:26 PM

If you must buy from a dealer, don't get credit from them if you can possibly avoid it. Go to your bank first. Better yet, buy a car you can afford, without credit.

CheesePuff · Sep 24, 2007, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

Hey guys, I technically will be buying my first car in a few months. I`ve bought many but not by myself. I'm 20 so I am still young and it's even fun I went to two dealerships on a wednesday morning at 10 am and no one talked to me. I then went to another one after work (with fire dept uniform on) and two people came to me automatically...what is that about?

I am looking at buying a Ford Fusion. I drove it and really like the styling, ride, MPG and the reviews on it. I really don't want to go into debt being young so I don't want to go over $22,000 for a car but I talked the salesman down to $17,000 on a 2007 with 20 miles. Along with a $2500 Ford Firefighters Discount. I was wondering if you guys had advice on the subject? Do I need to go to others and see if they will beat the price and what not?

are you a city of nashville firefighter?

Art Vandelay · Sep 24, 2007, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

If you must buy from a dealer, don't get credit from them if you can possibly avoid it. Go to your bank first.

To clarify on that...

Get your own financing lined up first. Then see what the dealer can do. If they can get you on FMC Credit, you'll probably be better off. The manufacturer's financing arms can provide great interest rates, sometimes 0%. If you can't get financed through them, then the dealer will use other 3rd party financing that is usually much worse then what you can get yourself from the bank.

peeb · Sep 24, 2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

To clarify on that...

Get your own financing lined up first. Then see what the dealer can do.

Yep - that's what I meant. Of course, better yet, buy a car you can afford without borrowing money.

shifuimam · Sep 24, 2007, 03:45 PM

Buy a used car. Have the smallest loan you can - make the biggest down payment you can. If you have money saved up, $4000 should get you a decent, older used car.

Why are you buying a new car? Does your car no longer work? Does it require substantial repairs?

Consider this:

Even if you have to make $1200 in repairs on your car every year, that's still less than you'd be paying in payments on a brand new car. A car depreciates in value the day you drive it off the lot, so your goal should be to have the absolute smallest loan possible, if you have to get a loan at all. If you're responsible, you should be able to drive a car just about into the ground before buying a new one - there's no reason to buy a new car if the one you have works just fine. If you just want something shiny and new, find a pretty rock in a river.

So resale value shouldn't be at the top of your list, since it's going to depreciate anyhow (and unless you absolutely insist on having a new car every few years, by the time a car really shits out on you, it won't be worth much anyhow).

You're only 20. Don't get into $15,000 in debt for a car so quickly. You're young, and you absolutely need to be as financially conservative as you can, especially when you're just starting out in life.

<edit>
If you're willing to spend $17k on a car, get a used Toyota or Honda. It will last you infinitely longer than a Ford and be a hell of a lot more reliable (and therefore have less problems which will mean less repairs as the car ages).
</edit>

peeb · Sep 24, 2007, 04:28 PM

Amen brother. Buy a used car. Stay out of debt!

wallinbl · Sep 24, 2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by red rocket

I think new cars are a waste of money. Buy a second hand BMW or something.

Talk about a waste of money! Once they crack 80k miles or so, the BMW will get very expensive. Mechanically, they're great, but all those sensors that tell you what's wrong with the car go bad, and they're $300-400 each.

iranfromthezoo · Sep 24, 2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by CheesePuff

are you a city of nashville firefighter?

No I need to fix my location. I work for City of Brandon, MS Fire Dept.

I talked with my bank and then FMC. The banks interest rate for 5 years was 4.2% and FMC was 3%. But I am going to try to trade in a 2007 Eclipse.

Art Vandelay · Sep 24, 2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

But I am going to try to trade in a 2007 Eclipse.

You're going to eat it on that one.

red rocket · Sep 25, 2007, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Talk about a waste of money! Once they crack 80k miles or so, the BMW will get very expensive. Mechanically, they're great, but all those sensors that tell you what's wrong with the car go bad, and they're $300-400 each.

It all depends on the model. I've had next to no problems with my E34. Yeah, the on‑board computer can act a little wonky at times and raise false alarms, but even that has stopped since I stuck in a new battery. Extremely reliable car.

Kevin · Sep 25, 2007, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

<edit>
If you're willing to spend $17k on a car, get a used Toyota or Honda. It will last you infinitely longer than a Ford and be a hell of a lot more reliable (and therefore have less problems which will mean less repairs as the car ages).
</edit>

Cars last depending how good you take care of it. MOST imports cost more, so people end up taking care of things that do cost more. I know people with Fords past the 200k mark still running. And I am not Ford fanboy.

Railroader · Sep 25, 2007, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

I talked with my bank and then FMC. The banks interest rate for 5 years was 4.2% and FMC was 3%. But I am going to try to trade in a 2007 Eclipse.

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

You're going to eat it on that one.

Yeah, what he said!

Why are you trading in a brand new car for another brand new car?

wallinbl · Sep 25, 2007, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Why are you trading in a brand new car for another brand new car?

My guess would be gas and insurance. I recently traded in an RX-8 on a used Accord. My total cost (pmt + gas + ins) is down over $100/month.

iranfromthezoo · Sep 25, 2007, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Yeah, what he said!

Why are you trading in a brand new car for another brand new car?

My dad purchased it for my stepsister and then my dad and step mother got a divorce so he got stuck with the car. He tried passing it on to me to get out of the payments, I said no so we're going to try to trade it in.

CheesePuff · Sep 25, 2007, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

No I need to fix my location. I work for City of Brandon, MS Fire Dept.

Are you passed the academy and/or probation yet?

Person Man · Sep 25, 2007, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by iranfromthezoo

My dad purchased it for my stepsister and then my dad and step mother got a divorce so he got stuck with the car. He tried passing it on to me to get out of the payments, I said no so we're going to try to trade it in.

Er, trading in the car does nothing to get you (or your Dad) out of making payments on the loan used to buy that car. The trade in value goes towards the purchase price of the new vehicle, so you're stuck with two loans. The first loan on the traded-in car and the second loan on the new car.

You could get creative and refinance the loans into one, but you might still end up paying more than the new car's cost in principal alone.

Example (made up numbers to illustrate point): The car you want is $17000. The car you're trading in cost $15000 new. The loan taken out was for say, $11000.

You trade in the car. The dealer offers you $4500 trade in value (A dealer is always going to offer you much less than what they can sell it for). That reduces the car you want to $12500.

You still have the original $11000 loan, and now you're taking another $12500 loan so that means you end up paying $23500 + interest on a car that cost $17000.

Something doesn't add up.

shifuimam · Sep 25, 2007, 11:43 AM

Ditto.

Sell the car while you can, and <b>don't get another car on payments</b>. Even with a 3% loan, which is a very good interest rate, it sound like you are in no position to be getting another brand new car on payments.

Get a Camry or a Civic or an Accord that's five years old or so. It will last you a long time (plenty of time to save up the cash for a replacement) and cost you far, far less.

You're young, and it sounds like you don't have any debt right now - your dad does. Let him deal with his debt, and don't get into debt so early on in life. Your goal should always always always be to stay debt-free unless it is an investment (which means buying a house that you know will appreciate in value). I hate seeing young adults make terrible choices that get them into debt. It's a lot harder to get out once you get in.

Art Vandelay · Sep 25, 2007, 11:43 AM

That isn't quite how it works. The loan for the original car is paid off when you do a trade-in. The difference in the loan principal and the value of the trade-in is added to the new loan for the new car. You do not continue to pay two separate loans.

iranfromthezoo · Sep 25, 2007, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by CheesePuff

Are you passed the academy and/or probation yet?

yes and yes. Why?

residentEvil · Sep 25, 2007, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

That isn't quite how it works. The loan for the original car is paid off when you do a trade-in. The difference in the loan principal and the value of the trade-in is added to the new loan for the new car. You do not continue to pay two separate loans.

(using arbitrary numbers and years)

correct, one loan. i think you both were saying the same thing he/she just not connecting the dots.

you owe 12k on car loan and are buying a new car at 18k.
they take the trade at 4k with 8k left over still on the original loan but pay it off.
that 8k is then added to the new loan on the new car.

this is pretty common. if someone got stuck with a high % rate but was able to get a much lower one later...take the hit and have a lower monthly payment (albeit now for a longer period of time).

**** happens. but if you situation made it impossible to pay $500 a month for a car but doing the above means you only pay $180 a month...that helps HUGE.

would you want a $500 month payment that you can barely make and not eat anything but noodles for 3 years. or pay $180 a month for 5 years and actually afford to eat?

peeb · Sep 25, 2007, 10:26 PM

Or buy a car you can frickin afford without a loan!

SirCastor · Sep 26, 2007, 08:27 AM

Don't buy a new car at all, you can read around, but cars lose between 25%- 35% of their sticker price just by being driven off the lot (not counting test drives).
If you do end up getting a loan (I'd actually recommend you not buy from a dealership and not get into debt.), the dealer is going to try to swindle you every way they can. That sounds really stereotypical, but it's happened to me.

Avoid unnecessary cost, buy something reliable. look in Craigslist.

macintologist · Sep 26, 2007, 09:39 AM

The only Ford worth buying is the Mondeo. Skip on the Fusion and get a used Honda Civic/Accord or a Nissan Altima. They weren't built by unions so they are better quality cars. And you won't be in debt.