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Eug · Sep 26, 2007, 11:32 PM

At least in Canada

The Canada Revenue Agency has won a Federal Court order requiring eBay Canada Ltd. to turn over the names, addresses, phone numbers and e-mail addresses of all high-volume sellers on the popular website. The CRA wants to find out whether those individuals or companies are reporting the income they made from online sales in 2004 and 2005.

Ouch. I'm glad I'm not a high volume eBhey seller (for more reasons than this). I suspect if this is not already in the US, it's coming. Why? Cuz lots of sellers sell lots of new stuff on eBhey, but skirt the usual online store tax rules.

turtle777 · Sep 27, 2007, 12:52 AM

I think Germany required these so called "power sellers" to have full disclosure of their names and addresses on eBay. So basically, same effect.

-t

Eug · Sep 27, 2007, 06:19 AM

So just Germany and Canada so far? What about the rest of the EU?

I wonder how long before it hits the US.

MacosNerd · Sep 27, 2007, 06:56 AM

I have to say it does makes sense. A lot of these power sellers are running full fledge businesses and I suspect are not fully disclosing the income they make. In the US the IRS has already started to make noise that they want ebay to start disclosing sales information for large powersellers

It is fair after all, if I open up a shop to sell goods on the corner street I'm obligated to pay taxes, why should it be different if I decide to do it on ebay instead

IceEnclosure · Sep 27, 2007, 07:37 AM

I'd like to know where, say, the IRS makes the distinction between someone they'll go after, and someone they don't even consider looking at. Dollar-wise.

Sherman Homan · Sep 27, 2007, 07:48 AM

It already is part of the US tax law. Income is income. Al Capone found that out. Making money on eBay is not a tax-exempt activity!

Kevin · Sep 27, 2007, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan

It already is part of the US tax law. Income is income. Al Capone found that out. Making money on eBay is not a tax-exempt activity!

Nope! Having said tat I didn't add that guitar I sold last year on my records.. .

But then again I never added it when I bought it. I wonder if Garage Sales count.

Or kids running a lemonade stand. I wonder if they get audited.

Big Mac · Sep 27, 2007, 07:53 AM

I think Congress is considering requiring 1099s be issued whenever payments are made for independent commercial activity.

Eug · Sep 27, 2007, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

I'd like to know where, say, the IRS makes the distinction between someone they'll go after, and someone they don't even consider looking at. Dollar-wise.

I don't think they'll do that, because as others have said, income is income. FWIW though, they're only going after Power Sellers apparently for the time being. (That may be the only information they'll have anyway for now.)

However, while it is fair to tax this income, it's still concerning. They could leave things wide open, and nail you to the wall with say single large eBay sales (eg. a used but relatively new car), if they were auditing you. ie. Normally, they wouldn't go after small time guys like us, but they could leave the option open to do so... cuz... well... that's what they do.

What's scary about what's happening here is they're looking back as far as 2004. If they really go after these guys, then they're going to get hit very hard.

On a personal note, I've sold items on eBhey worth 4-digit $. Not very many, but if Revenue Canada decided to audit me and get that information from eBhey I'd be out lots of bux, not even counting the interest. OTOH, as I mentioned, they're apparently only going after Power Sellers... at least for now.

turtle777 · Sep 27, 2007, 09:12 AM

You don't have to tax personal sales as long as this is NOT your business.

At least, I would hope so.

-t

IceEnclosure · Sep 27, 2007, 10:10 AM

I've got 4-digit sales of other people's shiit, eff that.

Laminar · Sep 27, 2007, 11:27 AM

Why exactly are you spelling it "eBhey?"

analogue SPRINKLES · Sep 27, 2007, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Why exactly are you spelling it "eBhey?"

Must be a play on the classic Ghey spelling which I never understood either.

Kevin · Sep 27, 2007, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Must be a play on the classic Ghey spelling which I never understood either.

Same reason anyone makes spins on words I guess. Like instead of calling Christians Christians, you have called them xtians. Now because of the infamous sign, people use the term "moran" as an actual word. And you can thank Jeffk.

*shrug*

Laminar · Sep 27, 2007, 12:01 PM

Well in that case I do believe this thread deserves one of these:

Eug · Sep 27, 2007, 12:18 PM

Initially because I thought the word "eBay" is banned here, but it turns out it isn't.

Kevin · Sep 27, 2007, 12:36 PM

Yeah the word ebay is banned from lots of forums. Esp ones that don't like ebay spam.

rickey939 · Sep 27, 2007, 08:59 PM

eBay.

Eug · Sep 27, 2007, 09:24 PM

ʎɐqǝ

irunat2am · Sep 28, 2007, 02:21 AM

Saw this a while ago about personal payment of income taxes..thought it was pretty interesting. A little off topic, but meh. There are about 5 parts. YouTube - America: Freedom to Fascism

Doofy · Sep 28, 2007, 04:32 AM

AFAIK, there's actually no legal requirement to pay federal taxes in the US (if you're self employed that is - your employer has to file). What happens is you think you have to pay taxes so you file your tax return and this is then the contract which requires you to give money to the feds. If you don't file a return, no contract, no payment due.

That's the way I understand it.

Kevin · Sep 28, 2007, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

ʎɐqǝ

Clever.

Big Mac · Sep 28, 2007, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

AFAIK, there's actually no legal requirement to pay federal taxes in the US (if you're self employed that is - your employer has to file). What happens is you think you have to pay taxes so you file your tax return and this is then the contract which requires you to give money to the feds. If you don't file a return, no contract, no payment due.

That's a new one.

turtle777 · Sep 28, 2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

AFAIK, there's actually no legal requirement to pay federal taxes in the US (if you're self employed that is - your employer has to file). What happens is you think you have to pay taxes so you file your tax return and this is then the contract which requires you to give money to the feds. If you don't file a return, no contract, no payment due.

That's the way I understand it.

Yeah, good luck convincing the IRS

-t

MacosNerd · Sep 28, 2007, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

AFAIK, there's actually no legal requirement to pay federal taxes in the US (if you're self employed that is - your employer has to file). What happens is you think you have to pay taxes so you file your tax return and this is then the contract which requires you to give money to the feds. If you don't file a return, no contract, no payment due.

That's the way I understand it.

That's incorrect. You are legally bound to pay taxes. There's bunch of wackos who say that that the government has no right under the constitution to force us to pay taxes say such things but then most of them find their way into jail for tax evasion (and they don't file taxes returns)

Eug · Sep 28, 2007, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

AFAIK, there's actually no legal requirement to pay federal taxes in the US (if you're self employed that is - your employer has to file). What happens is you think you have to pay taxes so you file your tax return and this is then the contract which requires you to give money to the feds. If you don't file a return, no contract, no payment due.

That's the way I understand it.

Heh. Good luck with that.

SirCastor · Sep 28, 2007, 09:15 AM

I hate it when bureaucracy gets wise to technology. It seems to ruin the fun for the rest of us. They want to regulate the internet, they made our illicit music downloading illegal, and now their trying to put down the ebayer.
Like others I want to know where the line is drawn, so I can sell exactly under than much...

Actually, I've been thinking about this kind of thing a lot recently. As my freelancing web stuff has gotten more attention (and therefore money) I realize that It's probably important to be reporting this stuff as income. But like most people, my reaction is "You already take enough of my money!". I don't mind paying taxes, I think it's an important part of the way society functions, but I don't like that it's mis-handled, mis-appropriated, and mis-used.

</rant>

MacosNerd · Sep 28, 2007, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

they made our illicit music downloading illegal

I got news for you, copying music that you don't own was always illegal. The internet just allowed that activity to occur on an order of magnitude never seen before.

SirCastor · Sep 28, 2007, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

I got news for you, copying music that you don't own was always illegal. The internet just allowed that activity to occur on an order of magnitude never seen before.

My statement was poorly phrased. Copyright infringement has always been a violation of law, but they made the gray areas more black and white. Prior to this, you couldn't criminally prosecute someone if they weren't making money off of it. NET act

Personally, I don't pirate because it's wrong, but I tend to lean towards less litigation, not more, which is why I mention it.

MacosNerd · Sep 28, 2007, 10:29 AM

Oh I agree and the studios have gone over-board trying to sue everyone one and his brother in a vain attempt to stop or slow it down. Not going to happen.

vmarks · Sep 30, 2007, 08:45 PM

Actually, the IRS started cracking down on ebay power sellers in the US in time for last years' tax filing.

Additionally, you don't have to report how you made your income necessarily, just that you declare it and pay taxes on it.

Remember, Capone was busted for tax evasion. There's a lesson in that.

Eriamjh · Oct 2, 2007, 08:00 PM

Don't forget to report that illegal income!

If it can be tracked, it can be taxed.