[mindwaves]

So unbeknownst to me, I went with my former high school friend to a get rich qucik scheme held in a country club. The whole ambiances was highly surreal. Well-dressed people listening to a pudgy guest speaker who was preaching with some religious overtones about how he got rich using this method and how others can follow his path and get rich also. Everyone there was praising him and they wondered what should they do to get rich also.

His way of getting rich was to open your own website and sell items through it and through selling the items and getting referrals, you could be a millionaire very very fast. His listed figures with no backings and false quotes from various news sources. He listed how many cars and properties that he had and how he retired at the age of 35.

After the meeting, I left with my friend who gave me a "starter kit" complete with 2 motivational CDs, some pamplets, and 2 of their protein bars as a product. I took them and said thanks and goodbye. I drove home and googled the company listed and this is what I found, much to my non surprise. Here are some quotes:

Hansen: “If this is not a legitimate business opportunity, then in reality, in your opinion, what is it?”

Lindy Mack: “I would use the word scam.”

Hansen: “Is that actually achievable by selling Quixtar products?”

Short: “Based on my experiences, no.”

Hansen: “How are people getting all of this stuff then?”

Short: “There is another business.”

And it's a business that is completely separate from Quixtar, a hidden business that most recruits don't realize exists. Short says many of those high-level distributors singing the praises of Quixtar on stage are actually making most of their money by selling motivational books, tapes and seminars -- not Quixtar's cosmetics, soaps and electronics.

Hansen: “This was the dirty little secret.”


In pursuit of the almighty dollar - Consumer Alert - MSNBC.com

And my friend also told me that she was flying to Kansas soon to listen to another motivational speech. Haha, something so blatantly obvious to me is not obvious to her that she is getting scammed. Should I do anything? She already has a portion of her business set up.

[turtle777]

Quixtar - nothing more needs to be said.

The age-old pyramid-scheme still finds people financing someone else's fortune.

-t

[cjrivera]

Don't warn her.

Go to more of her meetings and get to know the other members. Then tell them you have this deal with Nigerian royalty that will make them money, and you will cut them in on the profit, if they help you fund it.

[Sealobo]

MLM Scam - humanity at its worse.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by cjrivera 

Don't warn her.

Go to more of her meetings and get to know the other members. Then tell them you have this deal with Nigerian royalty that will make them money, and you will cut them in on the profit, if they help you fund it.

Thread winner!

[analogika]

Can't you report it to the authorities?

Isn't this sort of thing illegal in the U.S.?

[peeb]

I don't think it is illegal, it depends whether they are actually making fraudulent claims - my suspicion is that they would be careful not to. Selling get rich quick schemes is a successful get rich quick scheme though!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Can't you report it to the authorities?

Isn't this sort of thing illegal in the U.S.?

Pyramid schemes are illegal, but you only get caught when you're stupid.

Quixtar / Amway is a pro - they've been doing it for years.
You bet their scam "business model" is tight - from a legal perspective.

-t

[mdc]

The get rich quick part only applies to the people at the top of the pyramid.

Peter: "Hey, it's Quagmire the wacky next door neighbor. What's he up to this time?"
Quagmire: "I'm goin' to work."
Peter: "Huhhuhhuh...him and his crazy get rich quick schemes."

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Short says many of those high-level distributors singing the praises of Quixtar on stage are actually making most of their money by selling motivational books, tapes and seminars -- not Quixtar's cosmetics, soaps and electronics.

Hansen: “This was the dirty little secret.”

Yeah, get rich quick schemes actually work — but only for the person selling the scheme.

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

And my friend also told me that she was flying to Kansas soon to listen to another motivational speech. Haha, something so blatantly obvious to me is not obvious to her that she is getting scammed. Should I do anything? She already has a portion of her business set up.

If you've told her it was a scam and she just isn't willing to use her noggin about these things, there's not a lot you can do, I've found. (I know a guy who went get-rich-quick-scheme-crazy a while back too.)

[PB2K]

piramid schemes are not so great. every once in a while i catch a relative who is thinking about boarding one of those ships..they see other people make fast money and they think they can be part of it too, as a stranger if they are so rich why would they need you?

you have to be an opportunistic thief to scam your friends and family, because thats what it comes down to in the end. I am happy I am not like that, I dont need to be rich like that.

I was offered a job once that payed 10.000+ euros a month, you would have to sell pensionplans and such. all about steal peoples savings. because after 5 uears thats what is in the news right now, all the people who thought a nice smart person would help them become rich got ripped off and seek help. They didnt read the contract they were signing. Instead they just went for the promise of golden mountains.

[turtle777]

Bottom line: quick money involves in most cases taking it away from someone else w/o adding any value.

If you can feel good about yourself doing it, give it a try. But don't be surprised if someone else takes advantage of you while you are taking advantage of others. In the end: karma is a bitch.

-t

[mindwaves]

Well, it is a legitimate business, kind of. They actually sell real products to real people. However, I believe one of the main caveats is that the average seller makes about $1,400 a year compared to the millions of dollars as advertised by the company.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Well, it is a legitimate business, kind of. They actually sell real products to real people

Yeah, and snake oil was a real product too. Doesn't mean it worked as advertised.

[Cold Warrior]

I went to something like this about 3 1/2 years ago at the invitation of an acquaintance. He was hosting this husband-wife team in his home. Same pitch with a website and selling stuff and affiliates. I don't remember the company. It smelled bad to me -- the 'too good to be true' test -- and I have an aversion to that kind of stuff anyway.

[mindwaves]

I do not understand their customer base also. Who in their right mind will buy soap, cosmetics, food stuff, etc from a non-reputable, no name website? I would never buy anything unless it is a major retailer or at least some reputable website.

[Chuckit]

You would be amazed. Some people actually reply to spam mail.

[goMac]

If you give me $20 I'll tell you all about my get rich quick scheme.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by goMac 

If you give me $20 I'll tell you all about my get rich quick scheme.

Dear sir,

Do yoo axcept Westarn Onion ?

Sincerest regards,
Barrister M. Oobootootoo, Nigeria

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

If you can feel good about yourself doing it, give it a try. But don't be surprised if someone else takes advantage of you while you are taking advantage of others. In the end: karma is a bitch.

-t

[cjrivera]

“After years of disappointment with get-rich-quick schemes, I know I’m gonna get rich with this scheme … and quick!”

[- - e r i k - -]

I got snookered in to one of those meetings too (different scheme though) under the pretence of going on a blind date. It was highly fascinating, as close to an evangelical meeting I've ever been. Loud music, everyone clapping, the whole shebang. Needless to say I never saw that chick again

[voodoo]

The logo of the company that owns this Quixtar (and Amway)



Very fitting for a company that deals in pyramid schemes!

V

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Quixtar - nothing more needs to be said.

The age-old pyramid-scheme still finds people financing someone else's fortune.

-t

Indeed.

[abe]

There are some really good Amway products which actually pioneered different concepts that are well known and accepted in all of our daily lives.

All-purpose cleansers. Concentrated laundry detergents. Drain cleaners that are safe to the touch. Herbal based multi-vitamins.

And just like in any business category there are a small percentage of people who will be successful after 5 years. What determines the success (in the case of the best of these companies) is not the lack of quality of the products (they are usually as good or better than what you'd find in the grocery store) or the viability of the business plan as much as the business person's willingness and ability to do the things that are proven to be successful.

If people bought a franchise for $250,000 - $500,000 they would be motivated and confident to do whatever they were told would make their investment pay off.

But in the case of the best of these MLM operations (Amway included) there are people who get into the business with the idea that it is a "get rich quick" scheme and it isn't that at all. If you work the business well and treat it the way you would treat a franchise business, I believe you would probably be successful. (Six figure annual income within 5 years.)

[MacosNerd]

Its amazing that so many people fall for the act that they can get rich without really trying or working hard. If only they knew the "secret"

I've seen the commercials, buy real estate with no money down and make millions or sell products part time from your home and live comfortably.

[mindwaves]

I'm not quite sure if I would buy any of the products that I see listed on my friend's websites. Why? They seem more expensive than competing tried and true name brands that I can find at my local grocery store. Plus I have to pay this thing called shipping (no free shipping unless over $75 it says). I also do not trust their processed food products. I rather have a Red Bull rather than a XS energy drink advertised on my friend's site (not that I drink that stuff).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Its amazing that so many people fall for the act that they can get rich without really trying or working hard. If only they knew the "secret"

Why? It happens all the time. Granted, MLM is a scam and that's that, but if you think all rich people got rich because they worked harder than other people, you've got another think coming.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

If you give me $20 I'll tell you all about my get rich quick scheme.

I make no claims that my business will make you extremely rich quickly, but I can assure you you can make a comfortable living off of it, and it will only require 2 hours per day of your time. And just to prove I'm not in it for the money, I'll only charge you $10 for access to the information.

Please wire this nominal charge to:

Eug Industries
Western Union,
Teller # 23425A2
Abuja, Nigeria

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Why? It happens all the time. Granted, MLM is a scam and that's that, but if you think all rich people got rich because they worked harder than other people, you've got another think coming.

no that's not what I said
I wrote . "they can get rich without really trying or working hard." Basically if they give a bunch of money to someone to learn the secret, they'll have money flowing their way in no time and no effort. I never mention current wealthy folks. A lot of them worked very hard to earn their wealth, others inherited it, still others fell into it one way or another. Oops almost forgot the people who created these schemes got rich too.. Its the aspiring people who want to be wealthy but would rather look for a short cut that these schemes entrap.

[Chuckit]

Hey, like I said earlier, get-rich-quick schemes work — just not for the person they want you to think. But they really quick ways to get rich.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Hey, like I said earlier, get-rich-quick schemes work — just not for the person they want you to think. But they really quick ways to get rich.

No argument there, but unfortunately it causes victims to empty out their bank accounts. Its kind of sad, really that people who desire wealth or a better life so badly that they're willing to be duped into these schemes.

[Doofy]

I don't actually see why MLM schemes are illegal. Sure, they're stupid... ...but hey, isn't their model basically how all businesses work?

Anyroad up. The best get rich quick scheme is as follows: Grab some cute chick off the dancefloor. Let her whine into a microphone. Put backing track in. Sell results to idiots. It's the scheme that keeps on giving!

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

The best get rich quick scheme is as follows: Grab some cute chick off the dancefloor. Let her whine into a microphone. Put backing track in. Sell results to idiots. It's the scheme that keeps on giving!

So, basically the same as running a MLM scam, but you get a hot chick out of the bargain too?

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I don't actually see why MLM schemes are illegal.

Because we have a soft spot for the suckers we see on the news that lost all of their money to the evil greedy people. So, the government protects them. The real reason: they didn't have enough lobbying dollars. There are plenty of schemes to screw people that are legal, so the lobby money can be the only real answer. If Amscot is legal, then everything should be.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Why? It happens all the time. Granted, MLM is a scam and that's that, but if you think all rich people got rich because they worked harder than other people, you've got another think coming.

Obviously you have the credentials to speak authoritatively about all of these matters. Would you mind sharing those credentials with us so that we might know to trust what you say and not someone else who disagrees with you?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by abe 

Obviously you have the credentials to speak authoritatively about all of these matters. Would you mind sharing those credentials with us so that we might know to trust what you say and not someone else who disagrees with you?

Credentials to talk about what? The fact that trying to sell somebody else's dodgy wares will usually not get you rich quickly? I think the vast body of evidence (i.e., people snookered into trying this stuff) supports that conclusion well enough on its own.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Credentials to talk about what? The fact that trying to sell somebody else's dodgy wares will usually not get you rich quickly? I think the vast body of evidence (i.e., people snookered into trying this stuff) supports that conclusion well enough on its own.

In other words...

Your negative conclusions mirror enough other people's negative conclusions so that instead of qualifying and quantifying your statement you simply refer back to other people's negative conclusions to prove your own negative conclusions.

Sounds like the formula for a circle jerk to me.

Not that I know anything about such things.

And that is what frustrates me about your statements.

You won't tell us your credentials but neither will you deny you have first hand experience of what you are talking about.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by abe 

In other words...

Your negative conclusions mirror enough other people's negative conclusions so that instead of qualifying and quantifying your statement you simply refer back to other people's negative conclusions to prove your own negative conclusions.

No, my negative conclusions mirror the evidence. Other people's conclusions are irrelevant.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

No, my negative conclusions mirror the evidence. Other people's conclusions are irrelevant.

Why is it that when almost ANY subject is discussed you manage to pick the wrong side to argue???

Here you go.

Looking at MLM companies, you will find some of the largest and most successful companies in America. The following is a sample of the largest MLM companies and a brief description of their history. If you are considering starting your own MLM business, one of these companies might be the one you are looking at closely.

Amway

Among MLM companies, Amway is considered to be an innovator. Part of the Alticor group, Amway had sales of over $6 billion in 2004. Its world headquarters is located in Ada, Michigan, where over 300 scientists continually research new products and ways to improve existing ones. Founded over 40 years ago by Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel, Amway is known for their sales meetings and the excitement they generate. They offer more than 450 products ranging from vitamins to household cleaners. Amway distributors do not have to purchase any products for inventory and Amway will buy back any unused, resaleable products from their business associates.

Pampered Chef

Many MLM companies are jealous of the success of the Pampered Chef. Doris Christopher started the company when she realized that there was a need for quality kitchen tools. Today, the Pampered Chef is a worldwide operation with more than 70,000 independent Kitchen Consultants. Their cooking demonstrations have become extremely popular and are key to their success. Meetings are causal while the Kitchen Consultant uses the products to make a fresh treat for the guests. Also, they have been successful in raising money for needy causes. Pampered Chef has collected more than $7 million since 1991 to fight world hunger.

Mary Kay

Mary Kay, Inc. is one of the most successful MLM companies. As a direct seller of skin care and cosmetics, they have achieved worldwide sales of nearly $1.8 billion. Founded in 1963, Mary Kay beauty consultants have been advising women on the secrets to beauty and health. Their home beauty consulting sessions have been the standard in the MLM industry.

Profiles Of Three Successful MLM Companies

[Chuckit]

Wow, so what you're telling me is that three companies do MLM have made a lot of money? That totally disproves…uh, actually, nothing. You haven't proven that most people get rich selling any of these things.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

So, basically the same as running a MLM scam, but you get a hot chick out of the bargain too?

Two or three if you're lucky.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Wow, so what you're telling me is that three companies do MLM have made a lot of money? That totally disproves…uh, actually, nothing. You haven't proven that most people get rich selling any of these things.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Why? It happens all the time. Granted, MLM is a scam and that's that, but if you think all rich people got rich because they worked harder than other people, you've got another think coming.

Admit you were mistaken?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by abe 

Admit you were mistaken?

Yes, once you admit to your "Get high postcout quick schemes".

You know what I'm talking about, those newsflash recycling threads. Those that got you banned from the PWL.

-t

[abe]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Yes, once you admit to your "Get high postcout quick schemes".

You know what I'm talking about, those newsflash recycling threads. Those that got you banned from the PWL.

-t

1. Wasn't talking to you.
2. Post counts mean nothing to me.
3. Newsflash recycling threads is something I've never heard of and only you would believe is important for any reason.
4. Reported for harassment again.

[ghporter]

I saw the circles drawn once, and was struck by how complicated the whole Amway process was. In its essence, Amway is not about selling their products (arguably decent and useful stuff), but about moving up the distribution chain by means of recruiting more first level sales people. There seems to be awfully little money to be made in just selling the products, since there's a cut for one's recruiter...

Mary Kay has the advantage of actually providing widely useful and desirable products that don't need a lot of sales work to get sold. I've known people who worked their way through school selling Mary Kay products and they haven't turned into "move up the chain" zombies. One can make one's Mary Kay career out of moving up, but there seems to be plenty of pay off in just selling the products. Impact: If it's a pyramid, it's a benign one.

What gets me about "get rich quick" schemes from pyramids, to Ponzies, to "buy real estate with other people's money and make millions!" plans is that so many people ignore the rule "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is," and they stop thinking critically (if they were ever able to do so in the first place) and their eyes just turn to dollar signs (think of Daffy Duck and you get the way some of these folks look).

[abe]

MLM Success?
by The Dollar Stretcher
by Gary Foreman

What do you think of MLM businesses? I have been approached by an IBO. As much as I'd like to do it, I am still ambivalent. In addition, it's hard to do in-depth business research on the net. The stories might be true or not.

I want hard reliable evidence so that I can be sure that the business would be good for me.

Lorena

Many of us have asked the same question. Could I make money in a multi-level marketing (MLM) program?

It sounds as if Lorena's IBO (Independent Business Owner) friend has told her how much money she can make. They'll probably have charts, graphs, testimonials and projections. And will explain how she only needs to make a few sales and sign up a couple of IBOs to have a steady income. I'm sure that her friend believes every word they say.

But, any business start-up should be carefully considered. By some estimates...

More?

MLM Success?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by abe 

Admit you were mistaken?

So, you post a quote basically supporting what I've been saying all along (at least as far as it relates to what I've been talking about) and I'm supposed to admit I'm mistaken because of that? While I appreciate this new, nonconfrontational approach to debate, I don't think it's going to work.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by abe 

More?

MLM Success?

Uhm... yes, why not post the rest of that sentence to start with

Originally Posted by MLM Success?

By some estimates four out of five fail. So Lorena is wise to move cautiously.

Plus, the structure of MLM is the same as the structure for a pyramid scheme. That's not to say that all MLMs are pyramid schemes. They're not.But, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference until you get familiar with the organization.
So how can Lorena tell if she should go forward with the offer? I'd suggest that she answer three questions. Only if she can answer all three with a 'yes' should she proceed.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by abe 

4. Reported for harassment again.

-t