[moonmonkey]

Can someone explain this to me, in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and the UK all electrical plugs must have fuses by law, the selection of fuse (3A or 13A) depends upon the device.



So why does China, the US and Australia not have fuses in the plugs, are they not needed?

[nonhuman]

Do buildings in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and the UK not have circuit breakers or fuse boxes?

[smacintush]

If there is a central fuse/breaker box then no. It's just superfluity IMO.

[Railroader]

I'd rather deal with a central circuit breaker panel over individual fuses at every outlet.

[ghporter]

Central is THE way to go. Assuming the service entry wiring is robust enough, a central circuit breaker box means that the house (apartment, etc.) wiring can't be overheated by pulling too much current. It sounds like HK's rule is due to lack of establishing a rule requiring proper, central circuit management.

[peeb]

The UK/HK system is more robust, and superior in almost every respect, in part because it is dealing with higher voltage. Buildings do have central fuse boxes / breakers, but (like the US) they are set to the capacity of the circuit. In the UK the fuse in the appliance is set to a size appropriate to the appliance, usually considerably smaller than the breaker. A fault with the appliance will cause the appliance fuse to blow long before the breaker, protecting the rest of the circuit and facilitating fault diagnosis.

In addition, the UK style 3 pin plugs are MUCH more robust that the US style, with much more positive connection. They are always grounded, and have individually switched outlets.

[ghporter]

The picture in the original post looks like an outlet, not a device on the end of a cord, or I'd have addressed fusing appliances as well. Your new information makes things much clearer for me. But one observation: a LOT of "old construction" buildings here in the States have yet to be brought up to current electrical code standards, and thus you'll find completely ungrounded outlets fed by fabric-insulated wires from a fusebox of dubious quality and capacity. You'll find that a lot. I'll bet that this is at least as true in the UK. In HK, that might be different-I get the impression that there's a lot of new construction that displaced really, really old stuff there.

I don't know that the UK plug/socket system is "more robust," but it is certainly more positive. Having the rectangular pins at different orientations makes sure that the plug goes in only one way and at only one angle, whereas our "blade" shaped hot/neutral pins are a lot more likely to go in at an angle-and expose energized connections.

As for fusing appliances, there are few (new) appliances that I can think of that lack some sort of device protection. On the other hand, that protection is usually in the appliance itself, not the cord. The major exception to this is GFCI-protected appliances such as hair dryers. The GFCI device IS the plug-you can't get closer to the connection than that!

[peeb]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The picture in the original post looks like an outlet, not a device on the end of a cord,

It's a device at the end of a cord, seen from behind, with the cover removed. The outlet is the image I posted. Both the UK and HK have old electrics that are every bit as dubious as old electrics anywhere else...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

But one observation: a LOT of "old construction" buildings here in the States have yet to be brought up to current electrical code standards, and thus you'll find completely ungrounded outlets fed by fabric-insulated wires from a fusebox of dubious quality and capacity. You'll find that a lot. I'll bet that this is at least as true in the UK.

This is extremely rare here, generally restricted to the homes of elderly folks (like, 80+) who don't want to learn new tricks and don't want to take advantage of the government grants available for modernisation.

[Kevin]

BTW not all US plugs are the two prongers. Most electronics have the ground prong as well.

There are the old non-grounded outlets. Most outlets now are the grounded type on the right

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

If there is a central fuse/breaker box then no. It's just superfluity IMO.

Its a legal requirement to have both, fused plug and central fuse / breaker box.

Its strange the US and Australia adopted the Chinese system instead of the UK system. chill out i'm only joking

[OreoCookie]

In Germany, we only have a central breaker box (only very, very old houses use fuses). Usually, separate rooms have separate breaker circuits, so it's actually very safe. In addition to that, there are other breaker boxes for the whole apartment/house so that you have at least two safety nets.

The UK systems seems like a blast from the past, sorta like having a separate cold and hot water tap.

[moonmonkey]

Seems much more modern and safer than the Chinese or European system to me, maybe that's because I'm now used to it.

[OreoCookie]

More modern?
As far as I can tell, this system was developed, because they did not have central fuse boxes.

BTW, England is in Europe
(I'm going to Manchester tomorrow …)

[Kevin]

It really works pretty much the same. No one is "safer" than the other. Regardless of what others will tell you.

Though we do have less juice going through our lines. Most things now a days that use only 2 prongs are adapters with isolation transformers built in. And things that simply don't need grounding. The things that do, are. All modern plugs in the states have the 3 prong deal going on. And most NEW sockets in the US have a fuse built into it. With a light checker to make sure it's working. All my sockets in my house have ground fault interrupters too



We also can get outlets that have individual shutoffs.. but I don't bother with those.

This is a neat one though



It would be neat to plug in a device, and be able to use it with anything that is connected to the link.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by peeb 

The UK/HK system is more robust, and superior in almost every respect, in part because it is dealing with higher voltage. Buildings do have central fuse boxes / breakers, but (like the US) they are set to the capacity of the circuit. In the UK the fuse in the appliance is set to a size appropriate to the appliance, usually considerably smaller than the breaker. A fault with the appliance will cause the appliance fuse to blow long before the breaker, protecting the rest of the circuit and facilitating fault diagnosis.

In addition, the UK style 3 pin plugs are MUCH more robust that the US style, with much more positive connection. They are always grounded, and have individually switched outlets.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

(I'm going to Manchester tomorrow …)

You ought to track down whoever is forcing you to do that and maim them.

[subego]

The one nice thing about fuses is that they just work. A circuit breaker can malfunction if the wires aren't tightened with the proper torque.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You ought to track down whoever is forcing you to do that and maim them.

Don't worry, we will only stay in Manchester for as long as we have to (there is a friend's wedding on Friday), we'll directly hit the road towards Edinburgh … 

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by subego 

The one nice thing about fuses is that they just work. A circuit breaker can malfunction if the wires aren't tightened with the proper torque.

Yeah and most all new wall outlets in the US come with fuses with fuse checkers built in. I am sure it's a lamp and not a LED. This has been standard for awhile.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

More modern?
As far as I can tell, this system was developed, because they did not have central fuse boxes.

No, I found out this is the reason:Ring circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ring circuits are commonly used in British wiring with fused 13 A plugs to BS 1363.

The ring circuit was devised during a time of copper shortage to allow two 3 kW heaters to be used in any two locations and to allow some power to small appliances, and to keep total copper use low. It has stayed the most common circuit configuration in the UK although the 20 A radial (essentially breaking each ring in half and putting the halves on a separate breaker) is becoming more common.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Yeah and most all new wall outlets in the US come with fuses with fuse checkers built in. I am sure it's a lamp and not a LED. This has been standard for awhile.

In the UK this is common in public/government buildings but not in private homes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

In the UK this is common in public/government buildings but not in private homes.

I've gotten my wiring in my house completely redone a year or so ago. They are making these standard in any new homes being built it seems.

it's really nice too. Esp in the bathroom.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

More modern?

OK more modern 'looking' then, the Euro sockets look like rejects from the Russian space program,

The HK ones look and feel safer, also you can't zap yourself my sticking a knife in the socket (you need two knives).



P.S. No matter how this seems I am not arguing about electrical plugs on the internet.

[Mastrap]

When I first moved to the UK appliances came without plugs. You had to go to a hardware store, buy a plug, fit the plug to appliance cable and then you could finally use it. Granted, that was 20 years ago. I remember going out to buy a radio, arriving home, finding the plug missing and trying to return it as being faulty.

Both parties (the sales staff and myself) were thinking that the other one was an idiot.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

When I first moved to the UK appliances came without plugs. You had to go to a hardware store, buy a plug, fit the plug to appliance cable and then you could finally use it. Granted, that was 20 years ago. I remember going out to buy a radio, arriving home, finding the plug missing and trying to return it as being faulty.

Both parties (the sales staff and myself) were thinking that the other one was an idiot.

That's like selling candles without the wicks.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

When I first moved to the UK appliances came without plugs. You had to go to a hardware store, buy a plug, fit the plug to appliance cable and then you could finally use it. Granted, that was 20 years ago. I remember going out to buy a radio, arriving home, finding the plug missing and trying to return it as being faulty.

Both parties (the sales staff and myself) were thinking that the other one was an idiot.

Good grief - I remember that. Dark times indeed.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

The HK ones look and feel safer, also you can't zap yourself my sticking a knife in the socket (you need two knives).

Indeed - the UK / HK ones have a lock system so that nothing can be inserted into the lower two prongs unless there is a ground prong. You have to work hard to electrocute yourself.

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

P.S. No matter how this seems I am not arguing about electrical plugs on the internet.

LOL!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

OK more modern 'looking' then, the Euro sockets look like rejects from the Russian space program,

These are Italian plugs, not German ones. They look more like this:

That's a clean, simple design which is also safe. You can't electrocute yourself, unless you really try or you have a faulty cable. The plug has to be inserted about half a centimeter or so until it actually makes contact (i. e. after the device has been grounded).

[peeb]

The only thing about that is that it is symmetrical - the plug can be inserted either way up. On the plus side, it is impossible to make those horrible plug power bricks work.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by peeb 

On the plus side, it is impossible to make those horrible plug power bricks work.

No it's not. You get power bricks that look like this:



The prongs are stuck on a long nose to fit the recess in the socket.

[peeb]

Wow, that's a shame...

[analogika]

Originally Posted by peeb 

The only thing about that is that it is symmetrical - the plug can be inserted either way up.

I've only ever found that to be an issue when plugging in audio devices.

Is it important somehow?

[peeb]

It depends on the device - normally not, but if the device cares whether it gets neutral or live down a particular wire it can. Audio is a likely candidate for caring.