[MacinTommy]

Could someone please explain to this dumb American: The difference between the United Kingdom, Britain and England.

I know Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England are "constituent" countries that make up the UK. But how is the UK a country in and of itself? Or is it? For example: When someone is from England they are considered British but if someone is from Scotland they are considered Scotish but not British? Anyways any help would be appreciated... I just need it broken down simply. BTW Wikipedia doesn't help in the explanation.. it seems to make me more confused.

[Jawbone54]

It's kind of like Canadians pretending that Canada is is a country in and of itself, but we all know they're just living under the umbrella of America.

Again, just trying to get under someone's skin. I guarantee you this one works though.

[freudling]

Jawbone54:

Keep your head up punk.

[- - e r i k - -]

Also it's easier to think of New Zealand as the sixth state of Australia.

[abe]

Originally Posted by MacinTommy 

Could someone please explain to this dumb American: The difference between the United Kingdom, Britain and England.

I know Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England are "constituent" countries that make up the UK. But how is the UK a country in and of itself? Or is it? For example: When someone is from England they are considered British but if someone is from Scotland they are considered Scotish but not British? Anyways any help would be appreciated... I just need it broken down simply. BTW Wikipedia doesn't help in the explanation.. it seems to make me more confused.

I won't bother looking it up so I might be wrong, but I always thought of the U.K. as if it were the USA but instead of having 50 states the U.K. has just a handful of States; England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales.

If we in the USA still had the emphasis on States Rights as we once had it might be easier to see each of our states as small nations, in and of themselves, the way that England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are.

And, once again, I may be totally wrong.

[moonmonkey]

The British Isles (I think) are made up of Scotland, England, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland Wales the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

Britain (or Great Britain) is all of these except the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom is Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Wales, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey Alderny, Herm and Sark.

They are all separate countries.

Scotland = Famous for Toffee and Whisky and deep frying crazy things
England = Famous for thinking its more important than it is
Republic of Ireland = famous for bombs and kneecaps
Northern Ireland = famous for Guinness and Whiskey
Wales = Famous for Leaks and Daffodils
The Isle of Man = Famous because the cats are born without tails
Jersey = Famous for cream and tax
Guernsey = Famous for cream and tax
Alderny= Famous for nothing
Sark = Famous for having no cars
Herm = Famous for having no bicycles

[abe]

Uh oh.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

The British Isles (I think) are made up of Scotland, England, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland Wales the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

Britain (or Great Britain) is all of these except the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom is Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Wales, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey Alderny, Herm and Sark.

Nearly there.

The British Isles are as you state - the whole lot.
Great Britain is the mainland only - England, Wales, Scotland.
The United Kingdom is England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

"Britain" is basically the UK - there's not really a definition for it.

The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are Crown Dependencies and are not part of the UK.

Originally Posted by MacinTommy 

When someone is from England they are considered British but if someone is from Scotland they are considered Scotish but not British?

Anyone Scottish is also British. It's pretty much exactly the same as with the US (i.e. a Texan is also American) but on a smaller scale. When a Scotsman says "I'm Scottish, not British" they're simply being an awkward Scottish nationalist asshole and demonstrating as such.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

When a Scotsman says "I'm Scottish, not British" they're simply being an awkward Scottish nationalist asshole and demonstrating as such.

I know a Pict who still has a bone to pick with the Scots for invading his lands.

[Mastrap]

If you go back far enough then you'll find that the modern Brits are really Germans (The Angels and the Saxons originally lived in what is now Northern and Eastern Germany - thus Anglo-Saxon) but they don't like to be reminded of that.

[moonmonkey]

I refuse to believe that, no matter how true it is.

[analogika]

We're not even going to start on how the royals are actually German, as well, right?

[Doofy]

See, that's how we can get away with taking the mick out of the Germans. We're basically just taking the mick out of ourselves.

[Chongo]

House of Windsor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This why Diana was chosen to mother to the heirs of the throne. The House of Windsor is very German in origin, while the Spencer family is of English ancestry

We're not even going to start on how the royals are actually German, as well, right?

oops too late

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

See, that's how we can get away with taking the mick out of the Germans. We're basically just taking the mick out of ourselves.

Yup. The British Germans got the 'let's build an empire' part of being German right and the German Germans finally gave up on that and decided to concentrate on keeping their trains running on time instead.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Yup. The British Germans got the 'let's build an empire' part of being German right and the German Germans finally gave up on that and decided to concentrate on keeping their trains running on time instead.

You guys got the "can actually build a car which doesn't break down every thousand miles" bit too.

[MacinTommy]

Thanks for all of the feedback.. it makes more sense now. But here is another thing that I was wondering about. How do they break it down for the Olympics?

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by MacinTommy 

Thanks for all of the feedback.. it makes more sense now. But here is another thing that I was wondering about. How do they break it down for the Olympics?

I still trying to figure out why Puerto Rico gets a team of their own.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nearly there.

The British Isles are as you state - the whole lot.
Great Britain is the mainland only - England, Wales, Scotland.
The United Kingdom is England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

"Britain" is basically the UK - there's not really a definition for it.

Depending on which authority you ask, Britain can either be exactly the same as Great Britain (in which case the pesky little islands—Guernsey, Jersey, etc.—are considered part of Great Britain, too), or Great Britain can refer to the island that comprises England, Wales, and Scotland, while Britain is Great Britain plus all the pesky little islands.

If you go back far enough then you'll find that the modern Brits are really Germans (The Angels and the Saxons originally lived in what is now Northern and Eastern Germany - thus Anglo-Saxon) but they don't like to be reminded of that.

Germanic, not German. There was no such thing as ‘German’ back when the Angles and Saxons left their homelands and went westward.

Not that they’d ever have called themselves ‘German(ic)’, anyway: German(ic) is a Latin name, adopted from Celtic. Early and middle Germanic tribes don’t seem to have had a common name for themselves, only for ‘the others’ (*walha-, as in Wales, Welsh, Walloon, the Volcae, etc.).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Depending on which authority you ask

Exactly.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Exactly.

As with everything else (except, alas, taxes).

[dcmacdaddy]

I always thought it was the following. Am I wrong?

England = England
England + Wales = Britian
England + Wales + Scotland = Great Britian
England + Wales + Scotland + Northern Ireland = United Kingdom

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

I always thought it was the following. Am I wrong?

Sorry, but yes, you are. Number two is wrong (Scotland is part of Britain—Britain is a geographic term, not a national term: it refers to the island, not the nations the island is divided into), and arguably number three as well (see pesky islands above). One and four are correct, though.

[Andrew Stephens]

England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not countries, they are regions. Wales is a principality. The United Kingdom is a country.

God alone knows why the rest of the world allows us to play soccer as separate entities. It's not as if any of the individual teams are any good.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens 

England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are not countries, they are regions. Wales is a principality. The United Kingdom is a country.

God alone knows why the rest of the world allows us to play soccer as separate entities. It's not as if any of the individual teams are any good.

No, England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are countries. They’re constituent countries.

In fact, Northern Ireland is not a region at all, though both England, Wales, and Scotland can be said to be.

[Doofy]

England, Scotland and Northern Ireland are countries. Wales is a principality.

Regions? Sounds like someone's been sucking at the EU/NuLabour propaganda teat.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

arguably number three as well (see pesky islands above).

Three is correct. Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not in the UK or Great Britain. Those "many small islands" that wiki is going on about is stuff like the Isle of Wight, the Outer Hebrides, etc.

[Oisín]

Sorry, you’re right—I thought Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, etc., weren’t a part of England and Scotland, respectively. Wikipedia informs me otherwise, they are. Then three is quite correct.

[nonhuman]

So basically, the UK is kinda like the EU, being composed of several different countries of which England is just one. Great Britain is the name of the island on which England, Scotland, and Wales are located. Britain can be either an abbreviated name for said island, or more of a conceptual national identity for what remains of the empire. Am I right in assuming that India, Austraia, et al would have been considered part of Britain while they were part of the empire?

[Oisín]

Am I right in assuming that India, Austraia, et al would have been considered part of Britain while they were part of the empire?

I’m not sure they were that pedantic back then—most probably considered those places to be part of England too, not just (Great) Britain.

Was Australia really ever considered ‘part’ of the British Empire, though? Wasn’t it more of a... how to say? Sort of like what Guantánamo is within the US currently? Not really an integral part of the country/empire, but still a place being used by it.

(Disclaimer: I don’t know much about the British Empires and the pukka sahibs and all that, so I’m probably way off, here.)

[Buckaroo]

I recall trying to buy something off ebay and I paid in Euro dollars and he emailed me back asking for British Pounds.

I guess England is not part of the Euro money system.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I recall trying to buy something off ebay and I paid in Euro dollars and he emailed me back asking for British Pounds.

I guess England is not part of the Euro money system.

“Euro dollars”

No, England (and the rest of the UK) doesn’t participate in the Euro. Nor do any of the Scandinavian countries, by the way.*








* Next topic, now we’ve done England/Great Britain/UK: No, Finland is not part of Scandinavia, though it is a part of the Nordic Countries, and they are a member of the Eurozone.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I recall trying to buy something off ebay and I paid in Euro dollars and he emailed me back asking for British Pounds.

I guess England is not part of the Euro money system.

No, it's not. England still uses the pound sterling, and I don't imagine they'll switch to the Euro any time soon (both for financial reasons and because, for some reason, the British seem to have a strong emotional attachment to their currency—actually I guess it's not that strange, I guarantee Americans would be the same way about getting rid of the dollar for whatever ridiculous reason).

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I’m not sure they were that pedantic back then—most probably considered those places to be part of England too, not just (Great) Britain.

Was Australia really ever considered ‘part’ of the British Empire, though? Wasn’t it more of a... how to say? Sort of like what Guantánamo is within the US currently? Not really an integral part of the country/empire, but still a place being used by it.

(Disclaimer: I don’t know much about the British Empires and the pukka sahibs and all that, so I’m probably way off, here.)

I'm not really sure either. Was Australia considered an actual colony, or just a dumping ground for societal refuse?

However, as far as I know, Guantanamo Bay is actually considered American soil just as US embassies in other countries are.

[Oisín]

However, as far as I know, Guantanamo Bay is actually considered American soil just as US embassies in other countries are.

But would you consider it an integral part of the US?

If asked to draw a detailed map of the US, you’d obviously include Hawai‘i and all those other little islands you have lying about scattered across the Pacific, but would you include Guantánamo Bay? Or US embassies worldwide?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

So basically, the UK is kinda like the EU, being composed of several different countries of which England is just one. Great Britain is the name of the island on which England, Scotland, and Wales are located. Britain can be either an abbreviated name for said island, or more of a conceptual national identity for what remains of the empire anyone born in the British Isles (except the Republic of Ireland) or anyone born on a crown dependency who so chooses to be called "British".

:nods:

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Finland is not part of Scandinavia

I didn't know that.

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I'm not really sure either. Was Australia considered an actual colony, or just a dumping ground for societal refuse?

Penal colony initially, then proper colony sometime after they started contributing by broadcasting Neighbours to the rest of the World.

Cipher is prolly the bloke to ask about Oz.

[angelmb]

Fellow Britons I need an additional explanation… what the hell happened to your automotive industry?, now that sucks.

[Oisín]

Penal colony initially, then proper colony sometime after they started contributing by broadcasting Neighbours to the rest of the World.

Surely, if ever there was a time to make them a penal colony, it was as punishment for inflicting Neighbours upon an unsuspecting world?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

No, it's not. England still uses the pound sterling, and I don't imagine they'll switch to the Euro any time soon (both for financial reasons and because, for some reason, the British seem to have a strong emotional attachment to their currency—actually I guess it's not that strange,

Well, the British ALREADY went through the whole getting-rid-of-your-currency once a few decades ago, when they switched from the whole pounds/shillings/farthings/pence/crowns/guineas/assorted bits mess to a less insane metric pound in 1971.

And they botched the last attempt at a fixed exchange rate back in the early 90's by overvaluing the pound, which backfired nastily and made them wary of further currency experiments.

I'd think that one generation down the road, minds will be a little more open.

[Doofy]

To be honest, the vast majority of Brits don't see any point in changing to the Euro.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Well, the British ALREADY went through the whole getting-rid-of-your-currency once a few decades ago, when they switched from the whole pounds/shillings/farthings/pence/crowns/guineas/assorted bits mess to a less insane metric pound in 1971.

And they botched the last attempt at a fixed exchange rate back in the early 90's by overvaluing the pound, which backfired nastily and made them wary of further currency experiments.

I'd think that one generation down the road, minds will be a little more open.

True, but is there really anyone out there (well, anyone worth listening to, I'm sure you can find someone) that doesn't think that decimalization was a good thing?

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Fellow Britons I need an additional explanation… what the hell happened to your automotive industry?, now that sucks.

Minis, Aston Martins, Jaguars and Bentleys were doing better than ever last I heard.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Minis, Aston Martins, Jaguars and Bentleys were doing better than ever last I heard.

Are any of those companies even British owned anymore?

Minis are BMW and Aston Martins and Jaguars are Ford. Not sure about Bentley.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Not sure about Bentley.

VW.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

VW.

Seriously?!?

Wow, didn't expect that.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Penal colony initially, then proper colony sometime after they started contributing by broadcasting Neighbours to the rest of the World.

Cipher is prolly the bloke to ask about Oz.

Now we are entering Commonwealth territory. As if the original question wasn't hard enough

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

* Next topic, now we’ve done England/Great Britain/UK: No, Finland is not part of Scandinavia, though it is a part of the Nordic Countries, and they are a member of the Eurozone.

Correct -- although there are many native speakers of Swedish in this non-Scandinavian country, many of their nineteenth century ancestors saw the way forward with the majority: "Swedes we are no longer, Russians we can never become, so let us be Finns!"

Fennoman movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[turtle777]

Damn. After reading all this, I'm even more confused.

-t

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

It's kind of like Canadians pretending that Canada is is a country in and of itself, but we all know they're just living under the umbrella of America.

Again, just trying to get under someone's skin. I guarantee you this one works though.

Na, that one wasn't terribly creative