[besson3c]

Isn't it funny how we sort of abide by what often seems to be brainless business tradition in doing things such as "recognizing employees" in a way that often comes across as dripping with insincerity?

I received a Christmas card from a boss I never see and maybe might bump into once or twice a year (and he literally may struggle to remember my name if we were to do so). It thanked me for all of my hard work and had the company logo on it. It was a pretty fancy card which may have cost a fair bit to buy for each employee.

First of all, why put the cards into everybody's physical mailbox, why show appreciation only during special occasions when you are expected to, and why thank me for my hard work in a very generic way when these bosses only have a vague notion of what I actually do?

I'm not trying to sound unappreciative, but I honestly would have preferred to have a slight monthly bonus for the cost of the card instead, and basically it just seems like a whole lot of work for what seems like an empty gesture. I'd be surprised if somebody was actually touched by what seems like insincerity to me (especially since everybody got the same card!) Perhaps I'm just cynical about many business traditions, but does anybody else here feel the same way?

[Chuckit]

Uh…I think I'd appreciate the card more than a $7 bonus. It's basically psychological, but I'd find a $7 bonus kind of like damning through faint praise.

[mindwaves]

I would much rather have a bonus myself. $7 or not, it is good enough for me. We have holiday parties also here and for the price of that, I rather have a bonus.

[CreepDogg]

I suppose I would appreciate a sincere gesture, but I agree that the type of thing you're describing is rather worthless, even psychologically.

But - there are a lot of 'Business Leaders' out there that believe this stuff is effective. I'm in middle management (for now) and my bosses consistently encourage me to do this kind of stuff. I don't see value in it personally, so I'm never good at it, which I'm sure would come off as completely insincere, so I generally try not to do it and look for what people might actually like and appreciate. For me, it's work, so that always equates to cold hard cash (the reason I'm there) - but that actually isn't the case for everyone.

[besson3c]

CreepDogg: what is the rationale behind why these so called business leaders think this sort of thing works?

[Cipher13]

I'd take the $7 bonus and consider it a few free coffees.

Who the hell wants a card from their workplace?

[MacosNerd]

I kind of think its a nice gesture and wonder why you would call it insincere.

Its the holiday season and people tend to go out of their way at times to wish co-workers, friends, acquaintances etc well and hope they have a nice holiday.

Seems kind of sad that you look down on such behavior and no matter how you put it, you do sound unappreciative. I think the thought goes well beyond the cost of the card and just getting a nominal amount instead, seems well crude

[besson3c]

It's not about $7, $7 was a figure that somebody threw out...

I'm questioning what the purpose of these sort of gestures are, and whether the recipients perceive them as intended. It's the classic Michael Scott Office sort of thing - he gets excited about Diversity Day and how it's going to make everybody so much happier, everybody else is rolling their eyes and looking to the great disconnect between boss and underlings to relate to collectively.

[abbaZaba]

I think cards like that are a stupid gesture but I am also a very callous person. I doubt I could pull that off.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

It's not about $7, $7 was a figure that somebody threw out...

I'm questioning what the purpose of these sort of gestures are, and whether the recipients perceive them as intended. It's the classic Michael Scott Office sort of thing - he gets excited about Diversity Day and how it's going to make everybody so much happier, everybody else is rolling their eyes and looking to the great disconnect between boss and underlings to relate to collectively.

To your question before - I think you just answered it. Quite honestly I've never really heard anyone provide a rationale other than they believe it's effective and have witnessed people really appreciating it. Now there may be occasions where their actions are targeted and sincere and they're confusing those with the other pointless stuff, or they may be encountering people who are kissing ass in expressing false appreciation (the insincerity comes full circle). I think there's just a disconnect.

Like I said, I'm not very good at it!

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I kind of think its a nice gesture and wonder why you would call it insincere.

Its the holiday season and people tend to go out of their way at times to wish co-workers, friends, acquaintances etc well and hope they have a nice holiday.

Seems kind of sad that you look down on such behavior and no matter how you put it, you do sound unappreciative. I think the thought goes well beyond the cost of the card and just getting a nominal amount instead, seems well crude

In my case, it's that the message I get from the card or whatever is not consistent with the message the rest of the year. I don't feel appreciated - I feel like I've gotten lip service. You can't sh*t on me for 364 days of the year and then make it up with a card. OK - I'm not that bitter but that's kind of the point taken to the extreme.

I just don't feel like they genuinely care - their actions the rest of the year speak to that - and that's why it comes across as insincere.

You may be fortunate enough to be in a position where such an action is consistent with your employer's overall behavior - and that's great but is not always the case. That's what I think you're seeing.

[MacosNerd]

Well I guess I'm fortunate where I work. The atmosphere is a lot whole better. Its a consistent message, and one where the employees are valued members of the team.

I still think its a nice thought to get a Christmas card

[medicineman]

You bring up a good question. Not a point but a question. I hire people for a job of work and pay them wages to do it. That exchange allows us all to benefit from that work. The first question is, why must I thank them for working? It seems rather foolish. Aside from that, I do appreciate what they do for me (my business). How do I show that appreciation? Were I to give $10 or $500 as a bonus, one might ask, 'Is that all I'm worth, and why does that person get more/less than I do?" So, as an employer, you have a problem.

I solve my dilemma by asking, does that person make my life easier or harder. I then set an arbitrary sum of bonus, and disperse it. So, this year, some will get $200 and others $1000. Is that fair? Who knows. Since I cannot satisfy everyone, I satisfy myself.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by medicineman 

You bring up a good question. Not a point but a question. I hire people for a job of work and pay them wages to do it. That exchange allows us all to benefit from that work. The first question is, why must I thank them for working? It seems rather foolish. Aside from that, I do appreciate what they do for me (my business). How do I show that appreciation? Were I to give $10 or $500 as a bonus, one might ask, 'Is that all I'm worth, and why does that person get more/less than I do?" So, as an employer, you have a problem.

Simple - treat them as people, all the time. Treat them with the respect you expect to be treated with, all the time. It's an employer/employee relationship, but employees are not machines. Expect a lot from them, and acknowledge their needs (you don't always need to accommodate them when it's not reasonable, but acknowledge). Show your appreciation in individual and group ways as appropriate. Then - something like a holiday card would be sincere.

You're right - you don't need to thank them - you both benefit. But the above holds.

A lot of employers aren't doing these things.

[besson3c]

In general, I find picking a premade card out for somebody to be a silly gesture, but a lot of people in my family do it and get a charge out of it, great... However, even if I was given a pen or something I think my rant would still apply.

I like getting food though.

[MacosNerd]

In general, I find picking a premade card out for somebody to be a silly gesture

I think its the thought that counts, even if you buy a premade card. I always buy premade cards for various occasions, such as birthdays, anniversaries etc.

Likewise, I am grateful for friends and co-workers who think enough of me, to send me a card for my birthday or Christmas. It doesn't matter if they created it with their own hands or bought it CVS.

[ghporter]

I've never gotten a "big boss" card of any sort. No, I take that back; I got "congratulations" from a couple of Wing commanders when I got promoted. And while those commanders did not necessarily know my name, they were aware of the contributions I and my peers had made to their missions. When you're the public address guy, the brass tends to recognize you, and understand how your work (which they don't have time to try to understand) helps theirs. Plus their Senior Enlisted Advisors made sure they knew what we did.

But at Christmas time, I've always gotten a card from my boss-who knew me and what I did every time. Frequently I'd get cards from my commanders (my boss' boss' boss) who also knew me and what I did, because I tended to be sort of active and noticeable. In civilian jobs, I've never worked at a big enough firm that my boss didn't know me.

[Kevin]

People are insincere all the time. And not just bosses either. I think insincerity is one of the lowest forms of disrespect. It also borderlines on the sociopathic tendencies.

[starman]

Does anyone see the irony in this post?

[brassplayersrock²]

you must have it hidden very well starman

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starman 

Does anyone see the irony in this post?

If you are referring to the OP then .. yes. . very much so.

I hope it was done on purpose...

[BlueSky]

Kevin Trolling for Besson3c®

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

Kevin Trolling for Besson3c®

and others

[Dakar the Fourth]

I'll be happy when business casual dies.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by starman 

Does anyone see the irony in this post?

Of course how can you miss it (referring to the OP's post that is)

[olePigeon]

That's like 7 1$ hookers.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BlueSky 

Kevin Trolling for Besson3c®

Not really .. I was making an observation.

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Of course how can you miss it (referring to the OP's post that is)

[besson3c]

I was talking to some other employees here today, and it was sort of fulfilling to find that they agreed with me without hesitation. Apparently there was some company wide employee appreciation night on a Friday night that only 25 people RSVPed to, and many of them had to be there anyway.

I wonder whether management types are literally oblivious to these sorts of disconnects, or simply don't care.

[Dakar the Fourth]

The fact is the company is better off attempting to show some appreciation than not at all. Insincere or not.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I'll be happy when business casual dies.

Yeah, have there been actual studies that suggest that people are more comfortable with potential business partners that wear business casual in all areas of work? I would rather work somebody who is dressed in a manner which he/she was comfortable in rather than somebody with some cheap business casual costume in bad need of ironing.

[Dakar the Fourth]

What exactly is a potential business partner, someone from outside the company?

[medicineman]

besson3c, I'm not sure where you're coming from. I don't know if you work for a large or small company. Mine is rather small. I thank my employees many times during the day for the great jobs they do. (I've *never* been thanked for employing someone). If a company attempts a gesture of appreciation, you seem to object to it. What are your expectations? What do you think is appropriate?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

The fact is the company is better off attempting to show some appreciation than not at all. Insincere or not.

I don't agree. In many ways it would be better to have no business partner than one that you cannot work with, and when you are forced to there is an absolute train wreck. The same sort of applies here - if appreciation cannot be expressed in a sincere and meaningful way, it is better to not attempt some form of appreciation rather than do so in a highly antagonizing way.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

What exactly is a potential business partner, someone from outside the company?

Well, isn't that the most common rationale for business casual - for greeting and working with people outside of the company?

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Well, isn't that the most common rationale for business casual - for greeting and working with people outside of the company?

I think the rationale is just keeping a level of formality. I have no issue with wearing a tie to meet customers, but on a day-to-day basis I find business casual (polos and khakis) restricting. I honestly dress better in with jeans and sneakers than khakis and shoes.

Thankfully my company has a lot of donation dress-down weeks.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by medicineman 

besson3c, I'm not sure where you're coming from. I don't know if you work for a large or small company. Mine is rather small. I thank my employees many times during the day for the great jobs they do. (I've *never* been thanked for employing someone). If a company attempts a gesture of appreciation, you seem to object to it. What are your expectations? What do you think is appropriate?

I work for a very large company for the time being. I'm not sure if what I'm describing can be fully grasped without experiencing it first hand, but basically my large company in question here is exactly what has been a parody of in movies like Office Space, the IT Crowd, or The Office.

The common dysfunctional symptoms always seem to be similar: a skewed ratio of middle managers to employees/underlings, policies and directives issued from the top down with no consultation or grasp of the actual realities off of a sheet of paper of charts and graphs, and essentially a massive disconnect between management and those working below them.

Watch an episode of The Office and pay attention to how Michael Scott (Steve Carrel) interacts with his workers. This is *exactly* what it can be like working in a larger company, except on a larger scale (and our middle managers are not nearly as goofy as MIchael Scott, but you get the idea)... In The Office his character gets all excited about events like Diversity Day and wants to decorate the office in preparation for this day thinking that all of this employee bonding will boost morale and help business, and everybody else thinks this is an utter waste of time, and are resentful of the mere notion.

Does this make sense? I'm exaggerating a little - these shows are exaggerations, but they are playing off a basic premise which is quite common. This is, in part, why many people can really relate to these shows.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I think the rationale is just keeping a level of formality. I have no issue with wearing a tie to meet customers, but on a day-to-day basis I find business casual (polos and khakis) restricting. I honestly dress better in with jeans and sneakers than khakis and shoes.

Thankfully my company has a lot of donation dress-down weeks.

I just don't agree with the idea of manufacturing formality. You can base your argument on the level of sincerity, but it goes beyond this... When employees feel stifled in any way - creatively or otherwise, there is no real incentive to master the art of being formal while actually connecting with people and demonstrating a sense of real empathy towards their needs, and a passion for the product being offered.

[Kevin]

I am encouraged to dress how I want. Most business don't trust the graphics guy who wears a suite or tie. They EXPECT torn jeans, tie dye tshirts and absurdities.

I don't dress like that, I am pretty casual but in a neat way. But my office is really decorated oddly. Christmas lights all year around. I have various stuffed Nostalgic characters all over the place (Hong Kong Fooey, The Munsters, Woody Wood Pecker, Fraggles) And even have the two hecklers on the muppet show "Statler & Waldorf" in a semi-circular flower pot that you hung on the wall (Looks like a balcony) I ever have a print out of the HAH HAH guy that says HA HA YOU ARE TEH DESIGNING ADS FOR TEH SETTINGS!!111" along with various other odd posters and original artwork.

Plus my office is dimly lit. I tell people I do it because it makes it easier to sleep.



I also have TWO Rubics cubes. One messed up, and one not. I exchange them from time to time and act indifferent to the fact. Or act as if it was always like that.

I also have a nice acoustic guitar here that I play when I get into a rut.

I could actually get a job a block away making about 10k more a year. But it's a stuffier job that isn't nearly as lax. I'd rather make 10k less and be happy with my job than make 10k more and not be as happy.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The common dysfunctional symptoms always seem to be similar: a skewed ratio of middle managers to employees/underlings, policies and directives issued from the top down with no consultation or grasp of the actual realities off of a sheet of paper of charts and graphs, and essentially a massive disconnect between management and those working below them.

I work for a large company as well. When I started it was a middle-sized company and thus some of what I've experienced is growing pains, but I basically think my company has gotten good at being a large company.

As a middle manager, I often get directives to communicate with my employees in a certain way - often that doesn't make sense for what my department does or who the people are - sort of a 'one size fits all' approach when all they really need to do is ask me to deliver certain messages in a way that makes sense for my team. So I can fully sympathize with the disconnect besson3c is describing.

For those of you sensing irony - do you work for a large or small company? I'm just wondering if there's a correlation...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

For those of you sensing irony - do you work for a large or small company? I'm just wondering if there's a correlation...

It is probably best to just leave that discussion be and move on.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

It is probably best to just leave that discussion be and move on.

Why? I don't mean any thing facetious by it, I just think it's interesting to see if there are patterns in differences in people's perceptions and attitudes in large and small companies. It doesn't imply one is better or worse.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

Why? I don't mean any thing facetious by it, I just think it's interesting to see if there are patterns in differences in people's perceptions and attitudes in large and small companies. It doesn't imply one is better or worse.

I think the "irony" being referred to was just a certain member's emotional baggage unsolicited Judge Judy thing he does for various members, often me. In a few minutes he'll tell somebody to worry about themselves and not others just to sort of complete the circle of endless perpetuity.

I actually have worked in a small company as well, and I noticed some undeniable differences - an amazing contrast really. There is much that can be said, what sorts of differences would be of the greatest interest to you to hear about?

[CreepDogg]

OK - sounds like I asked the wrong question. I guess I should have said, "For those of you that do feel these gestures are sincere...." But actually it was more to anyone who replies with an opinion about the topic.

[besson3c]

Ahhh... sorry for my misunderstanding!

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Ahhh... sorry for my misunderstanding!

It wasn't just you...it's all good.

[red rocket]

I received a Christmas card from a client who has violated the terms of a previous business arrangement and who still owes me around $300. It thanked me for all my hard work and was accompanied by a box of biscuits.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I received a Christmas card from a client who has violated the terms of a previous business arrangement and who still owes me around $300. It thanked me for all my hard work and was accompanied by a box of biscuits.

Heh... What are you going to do in reaction?

[Dakar the Fourth]

Send a christmas card with a bill in.

Obviously you shouldn't do that, but we can dream...

[brassplayersrock²]

^ why not? the client owes the guy money

[andi*pandi]

cards are excellent delivery devices for bonus checks. I say bring them on.