Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

MacosNerd · Dec 12, 2007, 07:49 AM

So looks like Jones got her medals taken away since she cheated and I presume the silver medalist will get the gold.

I wonder how the silver medalists feel about this, nearly four years removed from competing you are no getting the gold. All of the glory went to jones and lots of the endorsements went her way.

I'm not saying the IOC shouldn't have done this, she cheated but other then the record books how does this impact the athletes who now inherited the hold medals.

ajprice · Dec 12, 2007, 08:00 AM

Apparently they haven't decided what to do with the medals and records yet now that Jones has been 'stripped'.

Link

mdc · Dec 12, 2007, 08:03 AM

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) ruled that medals won by American Marion Jones, which included the 4x400 gold medal, would be withdrawn because she had confessed to taking drugs.

In October, Jones admitted taking steroids ahead of the 2000 Sydney Olympics, where she won a record five medals, including three golds.

The IOC is set to strip Jones' medals - gold in the 100, 200 and 4x400 meters relay, with bronze in the long jump and the 4x100meters relay - at a meeting starting in Lausanne, Switzerland, on Monday.

The IOC will also need more time to decide whether to strip the medals from the two relay teams that Jones ran in.

I took those quotes from this article.

It must be really horrible for the Marion's teammates in the relay. They didn't take steroids but might have their medals taken away. I can understand why it makes sense to take them away, but they must be really upset.

legacyb4 · Dec 12, 2007, 08:42 AM

It's a shame, this trend of performance enhancers in sports, because it forever casts a cloud of doubt on anyone who breaks a record, sets a milestone, or performs ahead of the pack. "They won? Oh, they must have cheated..."

nonhuman · Dec 12, 2007, 08:57 AM

Eh. The way I see it, successfully cheating's a completely valid way to win. If they get caught, they deserve to be stripped of their winnings. If they don't, they put in enough effort to avoid detection that they still deserve it.

besson3c · Dec 12, 2007, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

I'm not saying the IOC shouldn't have done this, she cheated but other then the record books how does this impact the athletes who now inherited the hold medals.

Is this a question or a statement?

MacosNerd · Dec 12, 2007, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Eh. The way I see it, successfully cheating's a completely valid way to win.

So its ok to take steroids or even bribe someone to look the other way in a sport/competition as long as you don't get caught

Kevin · Dec 12, 2007, 10:06 AM

So how long will it be till we see a Playboy centerfold?

MacosNerd · Dec 12, 2007, 10:07 AM

I bet she'll make a ton of money by writing a tell all book that will then turn into a made for tv movie.

nonhuman · Dec 12, 2007, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

So its ok to take steroids or even bribe someone to look the other way in a sport/competition as long as you don't get caught

Yeah, sure. Why not? Good for you if you're good enough not to get caught.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 12, 2007, 10:14 AM

Apparently you like an added layer of competition to your sports events.

nonhuman · Dec 12, 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

Apparently you like an added layer of competition to your sports events.

Damn straight.

Cipher13 · Dec 12, 2007, 10:49 AM

I'm not so sure about bribery being valid (though it certainly is in a way, it tests a different aspect of a person), but how is the use of performance enhancing drugs different to using expensive equipment, like the sharkskins swimmers use? Athletes that use steroids are just that much more dedicated - they're willing to (possibly) ruin their lives to win, and they absolutely push the envelope of human capability.

I say good on 'em. Rules like "no drugs" or "no kicking below the waist" are for losers. Sometimes it just has to be all or nothing.

Eug · Dec 12, 2007, 02:43 PM

She was taking steroids?

Kevin · Dec 12, 2007, 02:57 PM

Yeah she doesn't look like it at all!

At least she wont have to worry about her testicles getting smaller. They will just get bigger.

Zeeb · Dec 12, 2007, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Eh. The way I see it, successfully cheating's a completely valid way to win. If they get caught, they deserve to be stripped of their winnings. If they don't, they put in enough effort to avoid detection that they still deserve it.

You're the head of an accounting firm arent you?

MacosNerd · Dec 12, 2007, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

It must be really horrible for the Marion's teammates in the relay. They didn't take steroids but might have their medals taken away. I can understand why it makes sense to take them away, but they must be really upset.

I really feel bad for them, the odds seem pretty good that they'll lose their gold medals from the relay race that she was part of. They didn't do anything wrong yet they're getting punished because of her mis-deeds

- - e r i k - - · Dec 12, 2007, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

She was taking steroids?

Shocking! Shocking I say!

- - e r i k - - · Dec 12, 2007, 08:23 PM

Yeah. Cheating is pretty much the way things work these days. And in no other sport event is this more evident than Tour de France - an event that can't be won unless you have smarter steroids than the next guy.

MacosNerd · Dec 12, 2007, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Yeah. Cheating is pretty much the way things work these days. And in no other sport event is this more evident than Tour de France - an event that can't be won unless you have smarter steroids than the next guy.

You're right and its sad, the whole sport is tainted, baseball is up there and with the report being released by Mitchell tomorrow, things could get ugly.

OldManMac · Dec 12, 2007, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Yeah, sure. Why not? Good for you if you're good enough not to get caught.

Why don't you just shoot your competitors? It's the ultimate advantage.

Chuckit · Dec 12, 2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Why don't you just shoot your competitors? It's the ultimate advantage.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between taking an arbitrarily forbidden nutritional supplement and killing somebody.

OldManMac · Dec 12, 2007, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between taking an arbitrarily forbidden nutritional supplement and killing somebody.

I'm pretty sure I was aware of that. The point I was making is that one doesn't "win" anything by cheating, just because someone else does. Two wrongs have never made a right.

abbaZaba · Dec 12, 2007, 10:57 PM

why is this news now? I thought they stripped her of the golds a long while back.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by abbaZaba

why is this news now? I thought they stripped her of the golds a long while back.

she returned her medals, the IOC made it official.

nonhuman · Dec 13, 2007, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Zeeb

You're the head of an accounting firm arent you?

Nah. It's a web development firm. Getting into real estate too.

nonhuman · Dec 13, 2007, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by OldManMac

I'm pretty sure I was aware of that. The point I was making is that one doesn't "win" anything by cheating, just because someone else does. Two wrongs have never made a right.

Depends on how you define winning.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Depends on how you define winning.

Meeting the requirements for a win in said sport while working within the confines of the rules set-up for said sport.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

Meeting the requirements for a win in said sport while working within the confines of the rules set-up for said sport.

That's the definition for the majority, but there are a minority such as barry bonds, McGwire and Jones that believes they are above rules and need to win at any cost even if that means cheating and breaking the law.

nonhuman · Dec 13, 2007, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

Meeting the requirements for a win in said sport while working within the confines of the rules set-up for said sport.

Well that sounds boring.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 07:41 AM

Your face is boring.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Well that sounds boring.

Why because someone doesn't gain an unfair advantage. The rules are in place to test the the athletes in a consistent manner. The best team should not be the most doped up team.

nonhuman · Dec 13, 2007, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Why because someone doesn't gain an unfair advantage. The rules are in place to test the the athletes in a consistent manner. The best team should not be the most doped up team.

Why not? That seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 08:14 AM

Everything in sports is arbitrary. Why don't soccer players use their hands? Why are you out on 3 strikes instead of 4? Why can you only take 2 steps after you dribble?

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Why not? That seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.

Its actually called morality. Like life we have rules of what is acceptable behavior. Its wrong to take what is not yours, its wrong to kill.

Likewise in sports there are rules, and they've evolved as the sport has evolved. Such as no gambling, or within the competition as dakar has pointed out.

by playing the sport you agree to adhere to those rules. Just because you may not agree with them doesn't mean you can disregard the rules. Cheating is cheating

Cipher13 · Dec 13, 2007, 09:04 AM

It's nothing to do with morality, come on, be reasonable.

Eug · Dec 13, 2007, 09:22 AM

Marion Jones Stripped

Now that's a scary thought.

Originally Posted by OldManMac

Why don't you just shoot your competitors? It's the ultimate advantage.

Well, to play the devil's advocado...

If you shoot up with steroids, you're only changing yourself.
If you shoot your competitors, you're directly sabotaging their efforts.

There is a difference.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cipher13

It's nothing to do with morality, come on, be reasonable.

Morals has everything to do with it

From webster.com
1 a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical <moral judgments>

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 09:43 AM

I gotta disagree too. Morals has nothing to do with something we do for entertainment.

ajprice · Dec 13, 2007, 09:43 AM

So the medals and records are gone, does she keep the prize money for the races she won? I'm guessing 'Yes', but she must have earned serious money from races, events and sponsorship deals.

And what is she going to do now... 'retire' for the rest of her life (She's 32, thats a long holiday)? Hollywood? Crappy adverts?

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 09:45 AM

Well she had her money completely mismanaged and is broke, so I wouldn't worry about her enjoying la vida dolce from here on out.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

I gotta disagree too. Morals has nothing to do with something we do for entertainment.

I guess I'm alone in the feeling following the rules is a moral decision. you choose to do the right thing.

So taking a steroid to cheat is not a moral decision. what about bribing an official to look the other way or make calls against a team. Is that a moral issue?

ajprice · Dec 13, 2007, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

Well she had her money completely mismanaged and is broke, so I wouldn't worry about her enjoying la vida dolce from here on out.

Didn't know that at all!

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 09:48 AM

It may be immoral to sidestep the rules, but the rules weren't installed to give a sense of morality.

OldManMac · Dec 13, 2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

I guess I'm alone in the feeling following the rules is a moral decision. you choose to do the right thing.

No, you're not alone, but in some peoples' narcissistic minds, as long as they "win" it's okay. It helps overcome their feelings of inadequacy.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 09:55 AM

I agree the setting of rules in sports was not o instill a sense of morality, but following rules and doing the right thing is a moral issue. It doesn't matter if we're talking about sports or real life.

Dakar the Fourth · Dec 13, 2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

I agree the setting of rules in sports was not o instill a sense of morality, but following rules and doing the right thing is a moral issue. It doesn't matter if we're talking about sports or real life.

To what extent? Every time an NBA player commits a foul is he being immoral? Every time a soccer player is offsides is he immoral? Both are against the rules.

No, sports isn't about morality. Unless you're heavily entrenched in the sports is a metaphor for life camp.

nonhuman · Dec 13, 2007, 10:11 AM

If you go back to my original statement, I said that cheating is fine with me if you get away with it. If you don't get away with it, obviously, you get in trouble. So I do think that the rules are there for a reason and that they should be enforced. I just also think that there's nothing wrong with increasing the scope of the competition to include extra-legal activities. It is undoubtedly risky, which is why many people won't engage in it at all. But as with everything else, the greater the risk is the greater the potential awards are.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth

To what extent? Every time an NBA player commits a foul is he being immoral? Every time a soccer player is offsides is he immoral? Both are against the rules.

No, sports isn't about morality. Unless you're heavily entrenched in the sports is a metaphor for life camp.

Ok, so knee capping a competitor, or bribing an official, video taping the other teams signals or taking steroids are not a moral issues because its related to sports?

I think its rather myopic to say that its entertainment so there shouldn't be any morals associated . Doing what is right is a moral decision regardless if your talking sports or living life in the real world.

MacosNerd · Dec 13, 2007, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

If you go back to my original statement, I said that cheating is fine with me if you get away with it. .

Do you feel the same way with stealing? That is if you can take money and not get caught its ok?

edit: where do you draw the line. just because you don't get caught doesn't mean it isn't right