[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

To the inevitable jokes about his death, I'm reminded of a quote by Jean Baudrillard:

“A negative judgment gives you more satisfaction than praise"

completely unrelated to his death, but check out comment number 3. such bad taste some people have
Cops: Lil' Wayne Had a Lot O' Dope! - TMZ.com - Entertainment News, Celebrity Gossip and Hollywood Rumors

edit: the commenter telling off number 3 is not me

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

The image I keep seeing in my head is the picture of his 2-year-old daughter riding on top of his shoulders as he walked down the street. She won't have any memories of him in just a few more years.

This is really sad.

I happened to found your quote on a Hong Kong newspaper. The news article even translated it to Chinese. Strange.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

I happened to found your quote on a Hong Kong newspaper. The news article even translated it to Chinese. Strange.

Eh?

[- - e r i k - -]

To the Too Soonâ„¢ crowd: Dealing with death and disaster with humour is a natural human reaction. Deal.

No less than 30 minutes after the news broke I got this ticking in:

You know what the good thing about Heath Ledger dying is? Now Steve Irwin will have someone to make out with. Too soon?

Comedians are a harsh bunch.

[Chuckit]

But unfortunately not a very funny bunch if that "joke" is any indication. Just suggesting somebody is gay doesn't actually constitute humor.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Just suggesting somebody is gay doesn't actually constitute humor.

"That Salty bloke... ...he might be gay he might."

See? That was funny. Especially in the Scouse accent I just said it in. So it actually can constitute humour if done correctly.

Unfortunately, whoever Erik gets his jokes off needs to retain the day job.

(* not picking on the cuddly gay pastor for any reason other than he's a good subject to illustrate that it can work because he's known to be reasonably flamboyant here on the NN and thus fits the joke framework perfectly)

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

To the Too Soonâ„¢ crowd: Dealing with death and disaster with humour is a natural human reaction. Deal.

Is that so? I can see how humor may be used to deal with the death of someone close to you--perhaps a humorous aside at the funeral, or something to this effect. But in the public sphere, mocking someone's death is distasteful. It doesn't matter how novel or edgy it makes you feel, people around you will still consider you to have poor taste.

I'm guessing however, that since you find cracks about Brokeback Mountain funny in the context of Ledger's death, you would likewise condone this:
Fox Host John Gibson Mocks Heath Ledger's Death - Media on The Huffington Post

[- - e r i k - -]

I was just about to post that link myself as an example of the difference between humour and assholishness:

Think Progress » John Gibson Mocks ‘Weirdo’ Heath Ledger’s Death: ‘He Found Out How To Quit You’

Thanks Kerrigan!

[Kerrigan]

Considering that the set up of each joke is strikingly similar, all things being equal, I think that the only difference to you between humor and assholishness is the person who tells the joke. If a conservative mocks a celebrity's death, then he must be an asshole, but if anyone else does, then it is humour.

Let's face it, there just isn't anything funny about his death. Not to mention, Brokeback jokes are pretty old hat.

Now, if Britney Spears or Michael Jackson suddenly died, we might have a few good jokes on our hands.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Considering that the set up of each joke is strikingly similar, all things being equal, I think that the only difference to you between humor and assholishness is the person who tells the joke. If a conservative mocks a celebrity's death, then he must be an asshole, but if anyone else does, then it is humour.

Let's face it, there just isn't anything funny about his death. Not to mention, Brokeback jokes are pretty old hat.

Now, if Britney Spears or Michael Jackson suddenly died, we might have a few good jokes on our hands.

Oops, you did it again.

[- - e r i k - -]

No. It has nothing to do with the person telling the joke being conservative or not. It has to do with the intention of the person telling the joke. The latter case here being clearly fuelled by actual hatred rather than a jocular zeitgeist motivation.

People laugh at politically incorrect jokes. It happens.

Mind if I Laugh? Humor When Tragedy Strikes « HumorX Blog
An Evaluation of Humour in Emergency Work

[Chuckit]

You're still not getting it. It's not about being politically correct. It's about not being a jerk. I don't think anybody who knows my politics would ever accuse me of being politically correct, but like I said earlier, I still don't go around trying to exacerbate other people's pain. There's a very large area between walking on eggshells and being a jerk — that's where we should try to be.

Also, the joke is lame completely independent of it being offensive. There are well-constructed (though still tasteless) jokes involving Steve Irwin's death — that just isn't one of them. "LOL I'm calling two dead dudes GAY! My God, I'm clever!" Like, maybe I would have giggled at it when I was in junior high.

[andi*pandi]

it would have been funnier if the joke went,

Steve Irwin had someone to play cards with.

Brandon Lee has someone to talk about facial makeup with.

ok, maybe not funnier.

[- - e r i k - -]

The joke is intentionally skewed to be even more un-pc. It's obvious neither of them was gay. Like Jesus.

[Face Ache]

While I often find unexpected celebrity deaths shocking and tragic, I invariably find the over-the-top reactions to them hilarious.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You're still not getting it. It's not about being politically correct. It's about not being a jerk. I don't think anybody who knows my politics would ever accuse me of being politically correct, but like I said earlier, I still don't go around trying to exacerbate other people's pain.

Pain? I wish you knew how to quit Heath Ledger.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

While I often find unexpected celebrity deaths shocking and tragic, I invariably find the over-the-top reactions to them hilarious.

I haven't seen any really over-the-top reactions to Heath's death in this thread.

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Pain? I wish you knew how to quit Heath Ledger.

Didn't say it was my pain. (BTW, 2005 called. It really needs that joke back.)

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

No. It has nothing to do with the person telling the joke being conservative or not. It has to do with the intention of the person telling the joke. The latter case here being clearly fuelled by actual hatred rather than a jocular zeitgeist motivation.

OK, I see your point, vis-à-vis Gibson's homophobia.

(Pardon my French, I couldn't find a suitable, less pretentious expression there).

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

2005 called. It really needs that joke back.

2007 called. It said you can stop saying that 2007 forum wisecrack in 2008.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

OK, I see your point, vis-à-vis Gibson's homophobia.

(Pardon my French, I couldn't find a suitable, less pretentious expression there).

"with respect to" or "about"

[Chuckit]

In case anybody's interested, Entertainment Weekly's new issue has a pretty decent cover article on Ledger. I thought it was nice that they were able to turn that around so fast.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

2007 called. It said you can stop saying that 2007 forum wisecrack in 2008.

That's just a general use "Your remarks are dated, sir" phrase. It's been around for a lot more than a year.

[PaperNotes]

Please, more celebrities die. We need more threads like this.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

"with respect to" or "about"

I really feel that the latter expression is more appropriate, since it suggests not just something "with respect to" homophobia, but also that there is a face-to-face or diametric relationship between homophobic jokes, and the joke which Erik mentioned.

[Cipher13]

Did you know Heath Ledger died of alcohol poisoning? Too many cock-sucking cowboys.

Did you know Heath Ledger died of a drug overdose? Too much crack.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Did you know Heath Ledger died of alcohol poisoning? Too many cock-sucking cowboys.

Did you know Heath Ledger died of a drug overdose? Too much crack.

This is getting un-cool fast.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

This is getting un-cool fast.

Cipher has become the king of uncool comments concerning the dead. He loves it.

[Cipher13]

Meh. I hope when I die, somebody has a tasteless joke about it. I'd laugh.

Heath Ledger seemed alright to me, for a celebrity. He wasn't an attention whore, which I respect. The fact of the matter, though, is that I don't know him from a bar of soap, so don't expect me to "mourn" him or anything.