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MacosNerd · Feb 12, 2008, 12:47 PM

An interesting article here in boston
Boston.com

Nothing really earth shattering or new in the article but as Clemens prepares to face congress in public hearings I'm curious to see what my fellow 'NN members think of this whole debacle.

Here's my $.02.
Since Petitte has admitted to taking HGH, and affirming McNamee it makes little sense for McNamee to tell the truth about Petitte and lie about Roger. Of course keeping the dirty needles and other "evidence" for all of these years is well creepy if true.

I think Roger juiced and it would have been better for him to just admit it, as the news story implied all of the other players who were named and have come clean have moved on. Seriously how many people are talking about Petitte or Sheffield taking the stuff.

Dork. · Feb 12, 2008, 01:35 PM

I don't believe Roger. I thought he was juicing even before we all heard about Bonds juicing. Steroids just offers so much more of a benefit to pitchers, especially older pitchers, who may not have the endurance that they did when they were younger.

I actually have no problem with guys like Pettite who took HGH while recovering from an injury, then stopped before competing again.

I do have a problem with the fact that Congress thinks these hearings are a productive use of my taxes, but that's a topic for a different Lounge....

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 12, 2008, 01:49 PM

I believe him. Why would he take them if "they only make him look good in a suit?"

I think Clemens is a great competitor and much more worried about his performance, not the way his suit fits. Besides, he probably has a good tailor anyway.

greg

Dakar the Fourth · Feb 12, 2008, 01:51 PM

He never grew a third ear.

Case closed.

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 12, 2008, 01:53 PM

*ba-dum ching*

Jawbone54 · Feb 12, 2008, 02:53 PM

Shoulda...been...a...poll.
I know I beat someone to it.

And no, I don't believe Roger. I did for a few hours after his angry press conference, then I started wondering if the whole "I don't give a **** about the Hall of Fame" was 'roid rage.

MacosNerd · Feb 12, 2008, 03:04 PM

I thought that too but after I created the thread - go figure.

kelso · Feb 12, 2008, 03:48 PM

I honestly have a hard time believing that he did. I was never really a Clemens fan but I respected him as a pitcher. Having a game with 20+ strikes outs is amazing. Plus if you really think about it, steroids aren't going to effect your pitching that much. If it does, in a bad way. If you put too much power on the ball, there's a chance that its going to curve up a dramatic amount and he would of thrown many more wild pitches than he has.

Dork. · Feb 12, 2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by kelso

I honestly have a hard time believing that he did. I was never really a Clemens fan but I respected him as a pitcher. Having a game with 20+ strikes outs is amazing. Plus if you really think about it, steroids aren't going to effect your pitching that much. If it does, in a bad way. If you put too much power on the ball, there's a chance that its going to curve up a dramatic amount and he would of thrown many more wild pitches than he has.

Steroids helps pitchers by building up their stamina and conditioning, which is very important as a pitcher gets older. Most elite pitchers can be competitive if they lose a few MPH off their fastball as they get older, but being able to pitch when your turn comes up is a requirement for the job. If your body weakens as the season goes on and your performance suffers then you're not going to last that long.

Pitchers can also compensate for the side effects of steroids better than hitters can. If a pitcher loses some quickness, it's not the end of the world, because he sets the pace of each pitch. If the timing of his delivery is modified somewhat, it doesn't matter as long as he hits his spots. Compare this to a hitter, who needs to hit major league fastballs: losing a fraction of a second on your swing is the difference between a home run and a foul ball.

- - e r i k - - · Feb 12, 2008, 06:06 PM

Ugh... we need a sports sub forum. I skimmed the whole thread before I got what this was about...

MacosNerd · Feb 12, 2008, 06:44 PM

Well all eyes will be on congress tomorrow. I suspect if history has anything to show us, they'll not really ask any hard hitting questions and he'll not really say anything he hasn't before.

I'm with Dork, this country has more important issues and problems to spend time and money on this.

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 12, 2008, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by kelso

. If it does, in a bad way. If you put too much power on the ball, there's a chance that its going to curve up a dramatic amount and he would of thrown many more wild pitches than he has.

Hahaha. That's ridiculous. Steroids would make him throw the ball too hard? That's patently ridiculous.

greg

kelso · Feb 12, 2008, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Hahaha. That's ridiculous. Steroids would make him throw the ball too hard? That's patently ridiculous.

greg

Not really. The harder a pitcher throws a ball, the less control they have on it.
When Kerry Wood was actually good, he was able to throw high 90s and the faster the pitch the more the ball will rises. Take a look at some videos of some good pitchers and see what I'm taking about.

rickey939 · Feb 12, 2008, 07:36 PM

Don't believe him. I do believe Rickey though.

Dork. · Feb 12, 2008, 07:39 PM

A reporter asked Henderson a few years ago if Ken Caminiti's estimate that 50 percent of Major League players were taking steroids was accurate. His response was, "Well, Rickey's not one of them, so that's 49 percent right there."

From here.

rickey939 · Feb 12, 2008, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

From here.

That's my boy!

Shaddim · Feb 12, 2008, 08:57 PM

I don't believe him, never have. You can tell by his body language.

Rev-O · Feb 12, 2008, 10:22 PM

Rocket lies.

OwlBoy · Feb 12, 2008, 11:19 PM

Bob Costas made a good point on Real Time.

heh, thats the best I can do in this thread.

-Owl

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 13, 2008, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by kelso

When Kerry Wood was actually good, he was able to throw high 90s and the faster the pitch the more the ball will rises.

It appears you don't know much about physics or baseball pitching. You're suggesting that baseball pitchers can "rise" the ball based on how hard they throw. That is wrong.

greg

MacosNerd · Feb 13, 2008, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by OwlBoy

Bob Costas made a good point on Real Time.

and what point was that?

kelso · Feb 13, 2008, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

It appears you don't know much about physics or baseball pitching. You're suggesting that baseball pitchers can "rise" the ball based on how hard they throw. That is wrong.

greg

My bad, I guess I should of said illusion. But still it, appears to rise whether it really is or not. And you must have quite a bit of strength to pull off such a forward spin on the ball.

screamingFit · Feb 13, 2008, 11:07 AM

Why is the government even wasting their time with such stupid shit?

BlueSky · Feb 13, 2008, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Why is the government even wasting their time with such stupid shit?

Yeah really. I'm sure the tired soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan sure appreciate it. I guess it's all a result of President Sparky's War on Steroids from one of his state of the union shows.

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2008, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Why is the government even wasting their time with such stupid shit?

No kidding, what a waste.

Yeah really. I'm sure the tired soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan sure appreciate it. I guess it's all a result of President Sparky's War on Steroids from one of his state of the union shows.

I thought these were congressional hearings?

BlueSky · Feb 13, 2008, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

No kidding, what a waste.

I thought these were congressional hearings?

They are. In Bush's State of the Union 2007 (or 2006), he addressed the steroid thing and made an Official Issue of it.

OwlBoy · Feb 13, 2008, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

and what point was that?

Spoke about how he was acting much like an innocent person would. Instead of the way other guilty athletes have acted. I don't even remember who he was using as an example.

I was just really into the idea of looking at things in such a thoughtful perspective.

-Owl

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 13, 2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by kelso

And you must have quite a bit of strength to pull off such a forward spin on the ball.

Precisely. How would HGH hurt in this case?

Originally Posted by Owlboy

Spoke about how he was acting much like an innocent person would. Instead of the way other guilty athletes have acted. I don't even remember who he was using as an example.

I dunno if this is sarcastic or not... but he seems to be acting in a guilty manner to me. He doesn't say much without a lawyer. He makes astoundingly erroneous statements about the helpfulness of steroids. Of course, that's all not to mention that he managed to be a Cy Young-worthy pitcher up until the age of 45.

On the other hand, I think the accusations that NcNamee are making seem "too logical to be false." He's opening himself up to a world of litigious hurt, but so far he's seemed to be correct (e.g. Pettite). Why would he include Roger if there wasn't dirt?

What points were made in saying he was acting innocent?

greg

Shaddim · Feb 13, 2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by BlueSky

They are. In Bush's State of the Union 2007 (or 2006), he addressed the steroid thing and made an Official Issue of it.

It was happening before that, it's all part of the anti-trust/competitive practice laws. If the Democratic controlled congress wanted to put an end to it, they would have done so by now.

BlueSky · Feb 13, 2008, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

It was happening before that, it's all part of the anti-trust/competitive practice laws. If the Democratic controlled congress wanted to put an end to it, they would have done so by now.

You make it sound almost like the Dems have the ability to get things done.

Oisín · Feb 13, 2008, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Ugh... we need a sports sub forum. I skimmed the whole thread before I got what this was about...

Same here. I thought (from the title) it would be about the Pope, so I was utterly baffled with the whole ‘facing Congress in public hearings’ part.

ShortcutToMoncton · Feb 13, 2008, 09:28 PM

One of the greatest players in the national pastime of the most powerful country in the world. Come on, now.

greg