[Lava Lamp Freak]

No joke.



'Pregnant' man stuns medical profession - Telegraph

[Gamoe]

This is why we shouldn't play God. Because we're not responsible or wise enough. This woman with a sexual identity issue wants it both ways. In no way can she continue to pretend to be man while she undergoes the incredible natural process reserved exclusively for women. And I agree that this is woefully irresponsible. She is doing this with no regard for the social and biological effects on her child.

I really hope the best for that child. He/She's gonna have it hard from day one.<sigh>

[Doofy]

According to the piece, Mr Beatie went through a sex change but decided to have only chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy, stopping short of making any changes to the reproductive organs he was born with.

If you ain't got the meat and two veg, you ain't a bloke.

Which means you've managed to sneak a boobie pic onto the NN.

[RAILhead]

Shouldn't it be Pregnant "man" stuns medical profession?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Shouldn't it be Pregnant "man" stuns medical profession?

“Pregnant hermaphrodite stuns medical profession—and pretty much everyone else.”

[Doofy]

Did nobody read the article? It's not a hermaphrodite - it's a chick who's had her tits lopped off and grown some stubble.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Follow up article:

"Gays men flock to propose to Oregon Man"

[Big Mac]

Ugh.

Fail.

[osiris]

Ultimate fail on title.

But heh, from the ashes of failure grow the roses of success. or not.

[SirCastor]

As with others, I agree that the title is mis-representative.

We had a lot of discussion about gender and gender identity in my Theory class last year, with no real conclusions about what defines someone as male/female, man/woman, or masculine/feminine.

As this guy decided to become a man, his method was to have a mastectomy, and start taking testosterone. Because the couple decided that 'he' should be the one to carry the child, he stopped taking the testosterone. As I look at it,he's undone the greater of the two things to 'become a man' physically, and has reverted to a woman (at least physiologically).

Historically, people will look at this poorly. They'll read the headline and think that some scientist installed a uterus in a man trying to alter the natural course of humanity.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Shouldn't it be Pregnant "man" stuns medical profession?

[Eug]

Yeah, not a big deal. Biologically, this "man" is a woman.

So, basically, it's "Ugly hairy woman with no boobs is preggers."

[Dakar the Fourth]

Like that headline wouldn't get tons of clicks, too.

[- - e r i k - -]

Looks like a fairly attractive "man" from that thumbnail. Unfortunately The Advocate has been hammered to death by this article.

Quirky, but ultimately quite lovely story. Not the "miracle of science" one would expect, but a heartwarming tale nonetheless

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

We had a lot of discussion about gender and gender identity in my Theory class last year, with no real conclusions about what defines someone as male/female.

I'd estimate that 99% of the population doesn't have a problem with that question.

[Ghoser777]

I had an ultrasound used of my left hamstring yesterday for rehabilitation purposes - no babies were found, fortunately.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I'd estimate that 99% of the population doesn't have a problem with that question.

Haha, true. It only becomes complicated when you start thinking about theory. Is it genitalia (physical), hormones (chemical), or perhaps what your mind believes (psychological)? What if those three are out of whack with each other? That's when things become complicated.

[Big Mac]

Gender is pretty clear cut, except for hermaphrodites. Gender identity is, as we see from this thread, not always so.

[Eug]

Yup. In this case, from a scientific/biological point of view, this person is a woman, plain and simple.

The psychology of gender identity is a completely different kettle of fish (oven of buns?) of course.

[andi*pandi]

I guess they'll be bottle-feeding.

[turtle777]

So, can we have a mod change the thread title to "Bearded woman w/o boobs is preggers" ?

-t

[Eug]

Heh. That's what I was thinking.

However, I wonder how the hormonal milieu was in that wo/man at the time of conception. S/he stopped taking the testosterone, but how long it takes for everything (including the uterus) to get back to normal?

Probably long enough... as it took them a very long time to conceive.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So, can we have a mod change the thread title to "Bearded woman w/o boobs is preggers" ?

Hey, I was first, with "Ugly hairy woman with no boobs is preggers."

[Dakar the Fourth]

Way too wordy. Just change it to "Laminar is pregnant" and be done with it.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Way too wordy. Just change it to "Laminar is pregnant" and be done with it.

Ouch!

Originally Posted by Doofy

Did nobody read the article? It's not a hermaphrodite - it's a chick who's had her tits lopped off and grown some stubble.

All right, all right, Mr. Literal. How about “Pregnant thingy freaks medical profession”, then?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

All right, all right, Mr. Literal. How about “Pregnant thingy freaks medical profession”, then?

That's just it. It's not that freaky, at least from a scientific medical perspective, since the person is biologically a full-fledged woman after all.

What makes it unusual are the psychosocial aspects of it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

All right, all right, Mr. Literal. How about “Pregnant thingy freaks medical profession”, then?

Yes, that'll do.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's just it. It's not that freaky, at least from a scientific medical perspective, since the person is biologically a full-fledged woman after all.

What makes it unusual are the psychosocial aspects of it.

“Pregnant thingy freaks general population”, then?

Man, you people are hard to please.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Man, you people are hard to please.

That statement displeases me.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

That statement displeases me.

*grumble*

[insert raunchy joke about the oxymoronicity of being simultaneously hard and displeased]

[Lava Lamp Freak]

I titled the thread in the same method that some of the media is spinning the headline across the web. This is the MacNN, not the CNN.

I think the true story should be how a person is being mistreated by doctors and society because of identity issues. I can understand the hesitancy of people, especially immediate family, to not want to say "he" for someone who has been a "she," but what I can't fathom is doctors turning away a paying human being for medical service because of religious or personal differences.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If you ain't got the meat and two veg, you ain't a bloke.

Which means you've managed to sneak a boobie pic onto the NN.

Yep, there is a boobie picture being shown on news websites across the web. Brilliant!

[::maroma::]

Only in Oregon.

[rickey939]

Soooooo....your saying there's a chance??

[peeb]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Only in Oregon.

What can you possibly mean by that?

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777 

Haha, true. It only becomes complicated when you start thinking about theory. Is it genitalia (physical), hormones (chemical), or perhaps what your mind believes (psychological)? What if those three are out of whack with each other? That's when things become complicated.

What if I believe I'm an alien? Is there a question about whether I'm a human?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

What if I believe I'm an alien? Is there a question about whether I'm a human?

It's a question of definition. I think most people would agree on a definition of alien that revolves around come from another planet, so I don't think so. Definitions of gender are a lot more fluid though.

[brassplayersrock²]

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Way too wordy. Just change it to "Laminar is pregnant" and be done with it.

Watch your mouth, a father shouldn't talk to his baby's mama like that.

[Dakar the Fourth]

You told me you were using a diaphragm!

[Love Calm Quiet]

I worry about what "his" high testosterone levels will do to the fetus -- unless he stops taking his androgen supplements. Though the damage may be done

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet 

I worry about what "his" high testosterone levels will do to the fetus -- unless he stops taking his androgen supplements. Though the damage may be done

From the article:

So they decided Mr Beatie should try to carry a baby. He stopped his bimonthly hormone injections and had his first period in eight years, he writes.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

As with others, I agree that the title is mis-representative.

We had a lot of discussion about gender and gender identity in my Theory class last year, with no real conclusions about what defines someone as male/female, man/woman, or masculine/feminine.

These irritating theorists who sit around in universities inventing paradoxes out of semantics don't realize how Medieval and ridiculous they are. Philosophy used to be a tool for understanding the world, but science is doing that job now. Philosophy is literature.

A biologist, or anyone with a modicum of common sense, can both formulate a practicable definition and negotiate the ambiguities.

I laugh at your irrelevant intellectual preciosity! Ha ha ha!

[torsoboy]

From the article:

Mr Beatie is legally male and lives with his wife, Nancy, in Bend, Oregon.

Say what? How does a person born a woman, who still has a vagina (and no penis), a uterus, etc. become "legally male"? You can just go fill out a form and become the opposite sex or something? Crazy world we live in.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by I, Tiresias 

These irritating theorists who sit around in universities inventing paradoxes out of semantics don't realize how Medieval and ridiculous they are. Philosophy used to be a tool for understanding the world, but science is doing that job now. Philosophy is literature.

I laugh at your irrelevant intellectual preciosity! Ha ha ha!

I guess anti-intellectualism is in vogue on the right at the moment, but not thinking things through is really not great policy. Go ask Bush about how it worked out for him.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by peeb 

What can you possibly mean by that?

First, I meant it as a joke. Second, I live in Oregon, so I have full immunity to make fun it.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

First, I meant it as a joke. Second, I live in Oregon, so I have full immunity to make fun it.

Fair enough.

[Salty]

Is it odd that I find this story kinda hot?

[Oisín]

^ Considering it’s you: no, not really.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by peeb 

I guess anti-intellectualism is in vogue on the right at the moment, but not thinking things through is really not great policy.

Do we really need to think about it beyond saying XX = girl; XY = boy?

[peeb]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Do we really need to think about it beyond saying XX = girl; XY = boy?

Yes.

[Salty]

For the record, seeing as how I'm apparently "Gender Queer" it's kinda funny to see this sort of thing. I don't normally think of a man as anything other than a person with dangly bits. But after going through a few workshops and hearing about trans people, I can honestly say, even if it doesn't make sense to me, I owe it to them to at least humour them because the fact is I'd never want to have to deal with what they feel they need to do.