[BasketofPuppies]

They didn't have "gay" back then. They didn't have "gay" until 20 years ago.

Thanks to Jay Leno's late mother.

[KeriVit]

You're very odd. Maybe been drinking?

[Railroader]

"The Homosexual" [/Youtube video]

[Uncle Doof]

I believe the word we're looking for is "flamboyant".
...or "Canadian".

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

I believe the word we're looking for is "flamboyant".
...or "Canadian".

Or....faaaaaaabulous!!!!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

They didn't have "gay" back then. They didn't have "gay" until 20 years ago.

They've "had" gay since before written history.

[Kerrigan]

The only thing worse than being gay, is not being gay.

[Randman]

Poof

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Liberace was WHAT?

A pianist. (And ‘gay’ has been used to mean homosexual since the ’30s)

[Kerrigan]

How long before Salty comes in here and tells us about one of the straight dudes he used to have a crush on in Bible college?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

How long before Salty comes in here and tells us about one of the straight dudes he used to have a crush on in Bible college?

We don't need Salty - you're already here to take his place.

[MindFad]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Or....faaaaaaabulouth!!!!

Fix'd.

[Randman]

Light in the loafers??

[Eriamjh]

"I wish my brother, George, was here."

[Mithras]

He was Polish.

[hwojtek]

He was a 100% American born in the US of A. Of Italian and Polish parents, American citizens.

[ghporter]

Why do so many people think that current terminology was invented last Wednesday? Wiki points out that the word "gay" acquired an almost exclusive homosexual connotation during the last century. Interestingly, that's when Liberace was performing... The sexual usage of the word "gay" goes way back too.

This is like when lots of people complained about the language in "Saving Private Ryan." "People didn't talk that way back then because my granddad didn't talk that way at home..." Bull. Soldiers cuss a lot. So do Sailors, Marines and Airmen. It's a military thing, and I'll bet George Washington's troops made the air blue much of the time too.

Anyway, whether there was a common-usage label in vogue or not, EVERYBODY who knew what homosexuality was knew Liberace was homosexual.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Anyway, whether there was a common-usage label in vogue or not, EVERYBODY who knew what homosexuality was knew Liberace was homosexual.

That didn't stop my grandmother from thinking he was hot.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by analogika 

We don't need Salty - you're already here to take his place.

You don't get out and socialize with people much, do you?

[ghporter]

Lots of people thought he was pretty, and when he wasn't being "flamboyant" he was one of the snazziest dressers in the entertainment world. Of course a lot of people were less aware of "alternative" orientations back in the day, so maybe your grandmother didn't pay too much attention to his flamboyance. And if you're just looking at appearance and style, who cares anyway?

[Kerrigan]

I don't even know why anyone would care. Frankly, the fact that he was gay is about as interesting as the fact that William Morris was gay.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Why do so many people think that current terminology was invented last Wednesday? Wiki points out that the word "gay" acquired an almost exclusive homosexual connotation during the last century. Interestingly, that's when Liberace was performing... The sexual usage of the word "gay" goes way back too.

This is like when lots of people complained about the language in "Saving Private Ryan." "People didn't talk that way back then because my granddad didn't talk that way at home..." Bull. Soldiers cuss a lot. So do Sailors, Marines and Airmen. It's a military thing, and I'll bet George Washington's troops made the air blue much of the time too.

Anyway, whether there was a common-usage label in vogue or not, EVERYBODY who knew what homosexuality was knew Liberace was homosexual.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Lots of people thought he was pretty, and when he wasn't being "flamboyant" he was one of the snazziest dressers in the entertainment world. Of course a lot of people were less aware of "alternative" orientations back in the day, so maybe your grandmother didn't pay too much attention to his flamboyance. And if you're just looking at appearance and style, who cares anyway?

Glenn, I am only typing this because I like you (no, not THAT way). Did you notice how every post in this thread was a single sentence? Except yours!!!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Glenn, I am only typing this because I like you (no, not THAT way). Did you notice how every post in this thread was a single sentence? Except yours!!!

Wow.

Just wow.

(Does that count as 2 sentences ?)

-t

[Uncle Doof]

Heh. Glenn is teh wordy mod.

[design219]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Glenn, I am only typing this because I like you (no, not THAT way). Did you notice how every post in this thread was a single sentence? Except yours!!!

This is such a serious thread.

Really.

[Randman]

Glenn is away atm, visiting the Liberace museum in Vegas.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Randman 

Glenn is away atm, visiting the Liberace museum in Vegas.

Hardly. But I do remember reruns of his show (daytime TV in the early '70s) and of course he showed up in a lot of other shows, including "I Love Lucy." Being a connoisseur of vintage animation, I have seen a number of parodies and caricatures of him, particularly in Warner Brothers cartoons.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

I believe the word we're looking for is "flamboyant".
...or "Canadian".

I don't think they let us use the * word in here. Well, unless you are referring to a british cigarette.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I don't think they let us use the F word in here. Well, unless you are referring to a british cigarette.

Hmm, F***boyant, Iike that word :

-t

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

You don't get out and socialize with people much, do you?

Family does that to you.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

I don't think they let us use the F word in here. Well, unless you are referring to a british cigarette.

British cigs are flamboyant? That's interesting!

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

British cigs are flamboyant? That's interesting!

Flameboyant.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Of course a lot of people were less aware of "alternative" orientations back in the day, so maybe your grandmother didn't pay too much attention to his flamboyance. And if you're just looking at appearance and style, who cares anyway?

Oh, Grandma knew what he was. Didn't matter to her.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally said by Austin Powers
Yeah, and I can't believe Liberace was gay. I mean, women loved him! I didn't see that one coming.

Is this message long enough now, vBulletin?

[Andrew Stephens]

My mum used to have a crush on Rock Hudson.

She was ever so upset when she learned.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Hmm, F***boyant, Iike that word :

-t

Oh crap. I goofed. I replied to the wrong message.

The word you can't use is ***. Another term the British use to describe a cigarette.

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Oh crap. I goofed. I replied to the wrong message.

The word you can't use is F*g. Another term the British use to describe a cigarette.

Or "faggot", even. Another term the British use for a variety of things.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

Or "******", even. Another term the British use for a variety of things.

What does that mean in British?

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

What does that mean in British?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_...measurement%29

[Buckaroo]

I chickened out. I don't want to get into too much trouble. I'm going to get my butt kicked for even mentioning it.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

We don't need Salty - you're already here to take his place.

WHAM!

Remember, GAY must have been in common use in the 60s because the Flintstones and Rubbles had a "gay old time."

I love all the revisionista crap about the use of language (Wiki may just be full of it again). Gay was a word for "happy and carefree" prior to Wikipedia allowing folks with an agenda to redefine it for their own purposes. It may have been a codeword for "homo" prior to recent times, but codewords aren't usually counted as accepted by society in general. Revisionistas Ho!

Heck, those disciplines got to have something to write dissertations about, something that's "hip."

[Atomic Rooster]

Don we now our gay apparel,

fala la la la lala la la.

Tis the season to be jolly,

fala la la la lala la la.


I sang that song leventy-seventy years ago.

And homo was what we said to the milkman.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by finboy 

WHAM!

Remember, GAY must have been in common use in the 60s because the Flintstones and Rubbles had a "gay old time."

I love all the revisionista crap about the use of language (Wiki may just be full of it again). Gay was a word for "happy and carefree" prior to Wikipedia allowing folks with an agenda to redefine it for their own purposes. It may have been a codeword for "homo" prior to recent times, but codewords aren't usually counted as accepted by society in general. Revisionistas Ho!

Don't you just wish your personal agenda could turn into etymological fact at the snap of your fingers?

Now all of a sudden it's *Wikipedia*'s fault that "gay" primarily denotes homosexuality?

Thank God, your wishful thinking doesn't make the world conform:

From the New Oxford American Dictionary/Writer's Thesaurus:
"USAGE Gay meaning ‘homosexual,’ dating back to the 1930s (if not earlier), became established in the 1960s as the term preferred by homosexual men to describe themselves. It is now the standard accepted term throughout the English-speaking world. As a result, the centuries-old other senses of gay meaning either ‘carefree’ or ‘bright and showy,’ once common in speech and literature, are much less frequent. The word gay cannot be readily used unselfconsciously today in these older senses without sounding old-fashioned or arousing a sense of double entendre, despite concerted attempts by some to keep them alive. Gay in its modern sense typically refers to men ( lesbian being the standard term for homosexual women), but in some contexts it can be used of both men and women."

It ain't all just Rush-Limbaugh, Ann-Coulter, and O'Reilly-types out there, y'know.

Some people actually research the stuff they talk/write about.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Don't you just wish your personal agenda could turn into etymological fact at the snap of your fingers?

Some people actually research the stuff they talk/write about.

Sure, and people make the research out to say whatever they want in favor of their favorite subculture. Other, alternative references are pushed aside to make sure that the agenda gets advanced. Wikipedia is just another tool.

Hey, propaganda works! "Gay in its modern sense" means that the agenda was successful. "Gay in its traditional sense..." is nowhere to be found.

And if you repeat something often enough, no matter how wrong it is, it will start to become right. I think Goebbels stole that from Lenin, which is kind of ironic.

Redefining words successfully doesn't represent "acceptance" any more than obtaining some sort of legal covenant similar to marriage. This kind of revisionist crap actually hurts the group involved more than it helps (it's called backlash -- we've heard about it lately). Many people in the mainstream would be a lot more comfortable if folks would just drop the charade.

[Oisín]

Redefining words successfully doesn't represent "acceptance" any more than obtaining some sort of legal covenant similar to marriage. This kind of revisionist crap actually hurts the group involved more than it helps (it's called backlash -- we've heard about it lately). Many people in the mainstream would be a lot more comfortable if folks would just drop the charade.

I don’t think anyone was arguing or implying that the fact that the word ‘gay’ has been commonly used to mean ‘homosexual’ for at least half a century implicitly means that homosexuality has become more accepted in society.

I really don’t see your argument here. Are you arguing that ‘gay’ is not used to mean ‘homosexual’? Or that this usage is a new thing? Because it’s not, quite simply. It’s not a matter of saying “whatever they want in favo[u]r of their subculture”, it’s a mere question of when the gradual redefinition of the word ‘gay’ took place—and that was, without any doubt, largely in the ’60s and ’70s in most parts of American (and even English) society. I’m not sure why that would be either in favour of or against gay ‘subculture’, it’s simply a fact—a well-documented, easily researchable fact.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

Don we now our gay apparel,

fala la la la lala la la.

Tis the season to be jolly,

fala la la la lala la la.

Have you seen those elves?

[Face Ache]

Mmm. Tasty.

[Randman]

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I don’t think anyone was arguing or implying that the fact that the word ‘gay’ has been commonly used to mean ‘homosexual’ for at least half a century implicitly means that homosexuality has become more accepted in society.

I really don’t see your argument here. Are you arguing that ‘gay’ is not used to mean ‘homosexual’? Or that this usage is a new thing? Because it’s not, quite simply. It’s not a matter of saying “whatever they want in favo[u]r of their subculture”, it’s a mere question of when the gradual redefinition of the word ‘gay’ took place—and that was, without any doubt, largely in the ’60s and ’70s in most parts of American (and even English) society. I’m not sure why that would be either in favour of or against gay ‘subculture’, it’s simply a fact—a well-documented, easily researchable fact.

I'm saying that the new usage is a redefinition of the word "gay" (over the past 50 years) and there's been a consistent denial that the redefinition took place in order to assert the legitimacy of the change. And I think the appropriation of words by subgroups and then the imposition of that new meaning tends to piss off the population at large, or keep tensions going between the mainstream and the subgroup.

Redefine words if you must, but don't deny that they were used differently by most people 50 years ago. And don't be snippy when folks call you on it.

[Buckaroo]