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Hawkeye_a · Sep 10, 2008, 01:17 PM

I'll refrain from posting a summary on this, but i for one am optimistic and glad to see such an initiative in this direction. Finally someone is doing something major about it is all i can say.

It's a good read, check it out.

http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretran...6-09/ff_agassi

Cheers

design219 · Sep 10, 2008, 01:56 PM

Wow.

I think he's onto something. I'm (sadly) not surprised that American politicians don't seem interested.

Laminar · Sep 10, 2008, 02:09 PM

I'm very interested in seeing how this turns out over the next few years.

Dakar V · Sep 10, 2008, 02:15 PM

And here I thought this was gonna be about Andre's kid.

LegendaryPinkOx · Sep 10, 2008, 02:25 PM

I can't fathom a place such as a mall or large office having enough "charging spots" to accommodate the sheer number of commuters. What if you arrive only to find all the spots are full. You will either have to wait for a spot to open up, or be stranded.

design219 · Sep 10, 2008, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by LegendaryPinkOx

I can't fathom a place such as a mall or large office having enough "charging spots" to accommodate the sheer number of commuters.

Yes, I agree. However, I think the idea of swapping batteries is very good.

Doofy · Sep 10, 2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by design219

I'm (sadly) not surprised that American politicians don't seem interested.

Of course they're not interested. They wouldn't be able to palm US national debt off to the ME if they didn't buy oil off the ME. And if they can't palm their national debt off, your standard of living is going to go lower than rural Mexico's in very short order.

olePigeon · Sep 10, 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Of course they're not interested. They wouldn't be able to palm US national debt off to the ME if they didn't buy oil off the ME. And if they can't palm their national debt off, your standard of living is going to go lower than rural Mexico's in very short order.

How's our debt to ME compared to China?

Laminar · Sep 10, 2008, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by LegendaryPinkOx

I can't fathom a place such as a mall or large office having enough "charging spots" to accommodate the sheer number of commuters. What if you arrive only to find all the spots are full. You will either have to wait for a spot to open up, or be stranded.

If one parking spot equals one charging spot, I don't see the problem. You could have one charging unit at the corner of four spots.

Doofy · Sep 10, 2008, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

How's our debt to ME compared to China?

How should I know? I've only been tracking energy - not cheap consumer goods.

vmarks · Sep 10, 2008, 03:22 PM

The battery change stations are interesting, but the problem is, batteries wear out. At some point, batteries will have to be replaced with new ones, and at that time the charging station is going to be left with dead ones on hand. How much dead ones vs. how many new, and what the cycle looks like is going to determine whether or not this is a viable business.

Laminar · Sep 10, 2008, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

and at that time the charging station is going to be left with dead ones on hand

I believe you meant to say "changing station." I'd hope that a majority of the battery's materials are recyclable, which would help alleviate some of that problem, and I'm sure this cost would be subsidized.

lexapro · Sep 10, 2008, 03:51 PM

I have heard that Israel gets *a lot* of sun. Something about being in a desert region. Why not just strap on a solar panel to the roof in order to have the battery last just a little longer? Charge when you're at home, at work and replace the battery when needed.

design219 · Sep 10, 2008, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by lexapro

Why not just strap on a solar panel to the roof in order to have the battery last just a little longer?

I'll bet these things are real chick magnets!

LegendaryPinkOx · Sep 10, 2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

If one parking spot equals one charging spot, I don't see the problem. You could have one charging unit at the corner of four spots.

I'm thinking on the scale of large shopping malls or office complexes with a thousand or more parking spaces. The cost of electrifying and maintaining such a large expanse of asphalt would be shocking.

Laminar · Sep 10, 2008, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by LegendaryPinkOx

I'm thinking on the scale of large shopping malls or office complexes with a thousand or more parking spaces. The cost of electrifying and maintaining such a large expanse of asphalt would be shocking.

If the pun was intentional, then well done. My assumption is that trying this sort of thing on a small scale, as they're doing, will help bring to light some of the issues they see on a larger scale. I'd also assume they wouldn't do an entire lot at once, but roll out more and more powered spots as demand increases.

LegendaryPinkOx · Sep 10, 2008, 06:12 PM

Yeah, it sounds like if it happens gradually enough, it could be done. There would most definitely be growing pains, but we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Doofy · Sep 10, 2008, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I'd also assume they wouldn't do an entire lot at once, but roll out more and more powered spots as demand increases.

They'd have to do the whole lot at once. Or else it's "well, I really wanted to go see client x today but since there's no charging places or battery swap centres near his office and I'm running out of juice, I'll have to take the Hummer instead".

Laminar · Sep 10, 2008, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

They'd have to do the whole lot at once. Or else it's "well, I really wanted to go see client x today but since there's no charging places or battery swap centres near his office and I'm running out of juice, I'll have to take the Hummer instead".

Well, I think that's how it will be for the first few years.

vmarks · Sep 10, 2008, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I'd hope that a majority of the battery's materials are recyclable, which would help alleviate some of that problem, and I'm sure this cost would be subsidized.

subsidized. magic money. recycling is a cost, not a gain. It costs to recycle these things, and the new ones don't come any cheaper because they were recycled materials.

At some point, the changing station is going to be stuck with a bunch of dead batteries that have to be recycled, the customer is going to be hit with a recycle fee since the station won't pay that, or it will be spread across all customers. At some point which will probably be predictable based on when the cars begin to come on the market, the batteries will die and need to have new batteries introduced into the system in order for changing systems to be sustainable.

design219 · Sep 10, 2008, 09:25 PM

Well it seems one aspect they are investigating is the electrical grid company owning the batteries. The ongoing battery costs would be worked into the cost of the charge.

Jawbone54 · Sep 10, 2008, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

And here I thought this was gonna be about Andre's kid.

Bingo!

Imagine my disappointment. Another car thread...

Kerrigan · Sep 10, 2008, 11:56 PM

Wouldn't this be disastrous for the environment, considering the coal needed to recharge these batteries at charging depots?

Jawbone54 · Sep 10, 2008, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Wouldn't this be disastrous for the environment, considering the coal needed to recharge these batteries at charging depots?

Shhhhhhhh!

Don't you know that electric cars are powered by free love?

Laminar · Sep 11, 2008, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Wouldn't this be disastrous for the environment, considering the coal needed to recharge these batteries at charging depots?

Did you read the article? Do you think that somehow in the scheme of things, he forgot where electricity comes from?

- - e r i k - - · Sep 11, 2008, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Did you read the article? Do you think that somehow in the scheme of things, he forgot where electricity comes from?

It was a ten page article (albeit written like some sort of gripping contemporary fiction), so I can't blame him for skipping this bit on page ten:

Originally Posted by Wired

The governor's people wanted to know why this wasn't just shifting the environmental burden to the electric utility. Agassi said he'd pay a premium to buy energy made only from renewable sources, making it cost-effective for the utility to put in wind farms or solar-powered plants—something Lingle has been pushing for.

Dakar V · Sep 11, 2008, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Bingo!

Imagine my disappointment. Another car thread...

And a lame-o environmental one at that.

osiris · Sep 11, 2008, 08:23 AM

Call me when we have zero-emission cars that fly.

lexapro · Sep 11, 2008, 08:37 AM

Just use nuclear power.

In Israel people have solar panels on every roof. They can use some of that juice to power the batteries,

vmarks · Sep 11, 2008, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by lexapro

Just use nuclear power.

In Israel people have solar panels on every roof. They can use some of that juice to power the batteries,

The solar panels are for powering the hot water heaters.

Laminar · Sep 11, 2008, 08:57 AM

Why would you heat hot water?

Dakar V · Sep 11, 2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Why would you heat hot water?

vmarks misspoke. He meant angry water heater.

Laminar · Sep 11, 2008, 09:02 AM

I thought he was referring to sexually appealling water heaters.

osiris · Sep 11, 2008, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Why would you heat hot water?

To make it more hotterer?

Hawkeye_a · Nov 25, 2008, 10:29 AM

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/c...nclick_check=1

That was fast. Kudos

ShortcutToMoncton · Nov 25, 2008, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

They'd have to do the whole lot at once. Or else it's "well, I really wanted to go see client x today but since there's no charging places or battery swap centres near his office and I'm running out of juice, I'll have to take the Hummer instead".

You hadn't heard? GM is talking about selling off the Hummer. Maybe they'll take the Tesla instead....

Laminar · Nov 25, 2008, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

I thought he was referring to sexually appealling water heaters.

I love it when I read a post, begin laughing, then realize I'm laughing at my own joke.