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So much for the Star Trek Movie (Page 8)
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Clinically Insane
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May 12, 2009, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That's the one I was talking about.

---

P.S. Orion women are supposed to be sultry. The one in this movie was a total airhead, the antithesis of sultry. What gives? Maybe only the slave girls are sultry? Once they hit the middle class they become valley girls?
It figures that the class of girls who become slaves are probably a bit different that the class that would be joining Starfleet.
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May 12, 2009, 01:47 AM
 
I enjoyed the movie and thought the casting was good, the direction to be fun and that it lacked the "weight" of the series as a whole.

Yeah!
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
OK, though, seriously, for those who've seen it, answer this please if you can:

 
 

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May 12, 2009, 06:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
It figures that the class of girls who become slaves are probably a bit different that the class that would be joining Starfleet.

The more I think about this, the more I want to say this was them making the "alternate timeline" point in a very small way (in terms of screen time and importance), while actually showing some of the massive changes said timeline had wrought.

Though I don't remember it being explicit, one can assume Orions weren't part of the Federation in TOS as the Federation wouldn't allow a species that kept slaves to join. You certainly didn't see any green Orions in Starfleet.

FWIW, there was some stuff licensed by Paramount (books, games, etc.) which did make this explicit.



Umm, yeah... I'm a Trekkie.
( Last edited by subego; May 12, 2009 at 07:05 AM. )
     
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May 12, 2009, 08:00 AM
 
I don't know where you guys are getting this alternate universe stuff. When Nemo and Spock came back in time their actions created new consequences and started new chains of events in motion, thereby creating a new timeline for them and the people they affect, but I really don't think they caused a whole new universe such as green chicks now joining the Federation, the S.F. Navy shipyards moving to Iowa, or Uhura and Spock becoming romantically involved, just by going thru the wormhole. If so wouldn't the universe constantly be starting over with new realities every time some crap gets sucked into a black hole anywhere, presumably every second of every day?

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
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May 12, 2009, 08:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
If so wouldn't the universe constantly be starting over with new realities every time some crap gets sucked into a black hole anywhere, presumably every second of every day?

If that crap happened to...

 


Think of it as the Rigellan Butterfly Effect.
( Last edited by subego; May 12, 2009 at 08:27 AM. )
     
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May 12, 2009, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
If so wouldn't the universe constantly be starting over with new realities every time some crap gets sucked into a black hole anywhere, presumably every second of every day?
It does. Every time a sock goes mysteriously missing = new reality starting up!

Got a pen without a cap? Romulans!
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May 12, 2009, 09:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
I don't know where you guys are getting this alternate universe stuff. When Nemo and Spock came back in time their actions created new consequences and started new chains of events in motion, thereby creating a new timeline for them and the people they affect, but I really don't think they caused a whole new universe such as green chicks now joining the Federation, the S.F. Navy shipyards moving to Iowa, or Uhura and Spock becoming romantically involved, just by going thru the wormhole.
'New timeline' effectively equals 'alternate universe'. If Nemo and Spock affected the same timeline that they came from, Spock wouldn't have any memory of events from his timeline, such as Kirk growing up knowing his father, since those events would have never happened. As such, this is an alternate timeline/universe and the original timeline, with a Vulcan and no Romulus, is still running along.

If so wouldn't the universe constantly be starting over with new realities every time some crap gets sucked into a black hole anywhere, presumably every second of every day?
In *one* Star Trek theory of time travel, yes. There are other time-travel theories explored in Star Trek as well.
http://io9.com/5238315/6-theories-of...l-in-star-trek
     
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May 12, 2009, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Not really. Jason and the Argonauts is one of my favorite movies in terms of special effects, because the effects were completely revolutionary for its time. The Wrath of Khan has pretty cheesy effects - they're about on par with special effects in TNG episodes, which isn't saying much - it just seems low-budget.
The effects in TWK were revolutionary for their time. TWK came out in 1982; TNG started on TV 5 years later-with significantly LOWER budget effects. TWK included the ground-breaking "Genesis sequence" which was the very first fully computer animated sequence used as an important part of a theatrical movie. The rest of their effects were completely state of the art optical effects. They were great, especially for when the movie was made.

TNG, on the other hand, had TV-oriented effects. They were not done on the same scale or with the same time and money budget that theatrical film effects were done then, and that sometimes showed. Not to the extent that TOS effects showed their low budget, but it did show.

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May 12, 2009, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by scottiB View Post
Uhura ordered two Buds at the bar.
I think this one bugged me more than the Nokia placement. Buds? Why couldn't she order GOOD beer for crying out loud? Oh, wait. Maybe these beers were for her fellow cadets, the ones that had to go 4 or 5 on one to beat up Kirk... Yeah, that's it! Wimpy beer fits now!


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May 12, 2009, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The effects in TWK were revolutionary for their time. TWK came out in 1982; TNG started on TV 5 years later-with significantly LOWER budget effects. TWK included the ground-breaking "Genesis sequence" which was the very first fully computer animated sequence used as an important part of a theatrical movie. The rest of their effects were completely state of the art optical effects. They were great, especially for when the movie was made.

TNG, on the other hand, had TV-oriented effects. They were not done on the same scale or with the same time and money budget that theatrical film effects were done then, and that sometimes showed. Not to the extent that TOS effects showed their low budget, but it did show.
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, Khan was one of the first movies to use CGI. So I stand corrected on that one.

I don't know - it just seems to fall flat to me, and I'm not saying that simply because I'm used to movies with better effects. Of course I don't expect Khan to be as whiz-bang as the latest one.
     
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May 12, 2009, 12:28 PM
 
I have one question...Is there any explanation as to where the young Kirk gets the gasoline for the Corvette? One would assume that fossil fuels would have been long since depleted or phased-out. Or are there other instances of gasoline-engined vehicles in the time frame? (I won't be seeing the movie 'til the DVD come out.)
     
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May 12, 2009, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The more I think about this, the more I want to say this was them making the "alternate timeline" point in a very small way (in terms of screen time and importance), while actually showing some of the massive changes said timeline had wrought.

Though I don't remember it being explicit, one can assume Orions weren't part of the Federation in TOS as the Federation wouldn't allow a species that kept slaves to join. You certainly didn't see any green Orions in Starfleet.

FWIW, there was some stuff licensed by Paramount (books, games, etc.) which did make this explicit.

Umm, yeah... I'm a Trekkie.
I'm telling ya, it's the beginning of the mirror universe. This is where their universe took a wrong turn. Kirk's gonna become emperor.
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May 12, 2009, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, Khan was one of the first movies to use CGI. So I stand corrected on that one.

I don't know - it just seems to fall flat to me, and I'm not saying that simply because I'm used to movies with better effects. Of course I don't expect Khan to be as whiz-bang as the latest one.
Interestingly, Khan just came out as a remastered HD version on Blu-ray, from the original film. It's currently packaged with a bunch of the other movies on Blu-ray, but none of those have been remastered. So I'll wait until Khan comes out on its own and I will buy it. One wonders how that CG will look, but even if it doesn't look great it doesn't really matter, because most of the effects are not CG in the first place. It was done on film with models, etc. and edited on film for release.

I mention this because Star Trek: TNG would be much harder to remaster in HD. Although the show was shot on film, it was edited on standard definition videotape for final broadcast. To properly remaster The Next Generation for HD, they'd have to re-edit the entire series using the original film stock. That would take forever and probably wouldn't be worth it.
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Yeah, according to Wikipedia, Khan was one of the first movies to use CGI. So I stand corrected on that one.

I don't know - it just seems to fall flat to me, and I'm not saying that simply because I'm used to movies with better effects. Of course I don't expect Khan to be as whiz-bang as the latest one.
Have you seen it on a big screen? It ROCKS on big screens. Even a DVD version on a large flat-panel TV would look MUCH better than anything on a small and/or CRT TV. It's truly amazing how BAD even really good film can look on a mediocre TV. For example, in the theater, you NEVER saw "garbage matte" lines around the ships in any of the Star Wars movies, but on TV-until Lucas remastered the fun heck out of them, you could see just about every one. It's all about the odd differences in contrast and black levels between film and TV in this case, but it's there and it can make great films look very cruddy.

FWIW, that "sneak preview" of "Star Trek" that they did in Austin about 3 weeks ago? The way they got people to show up all unsuspecting was to offer them a chance to see Kahn on the big screen with a pristine print. They had the place packed. You really need to see these films from high quality prints and on a really big screen.

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May 12, 2009, 01:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I have one question...Is there any explanation as to where the young Kirk gets the gasoline for the Corvette? One would assume that fossil fuels would have been long since depleted or phased-out. Or are there other instances of gasoline-engined vehicles in the time frame? (I won't be seeing the movie 'til the DVD come out.)
Probably some sort of non-fossil fuel substitute. And I can't believe it was an original 'Vette with all that Nokia crap in the dash, either. I felt from the time I saw the car in the trailer that it HAD to be a repro. Otherwise, Jim Kirk still deserves a kick in the pants for dropping it off that cliff. (I just do not want to go to "where did they get that huge gorge in Iowa?" at all...) Of course the stepdad that had the Nokia crap installed needs a bunch of those kicks too.

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May 12, 2009, 01:05 PM
 
Also, was that cop supposed to be a robot?

Which leads to a tangent: doesn't it seem that robotics are noticeably absent from the Star Trek universe?

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May 12, 2009, 01:07 PM
 
Speaking of the gorge, let's hear it for Kirk hanging precariously off a ledge no less than three times in this movie.
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Also, was that cop supposed to be a robot?

Which leads to a tangent: doesn't it seem that robotics are noticeably absent from the Star Trek universe?
No the cop acted and moved very human. He had stuff on his helmet and visor to I guess give him lots of data on what he was doing, but he was a guy. Otherwise, why would he have a separate air bike? A "Cop-Bot" could have been vehicle and officer in one, right?

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May 12, 2009, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Speaking of the gorge, let's hear it for Kirk hanging precariously off a ledge no less than three times in this movie.
He must've taken lessons from Morpheus in Matrix: Reloaded.
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
No the cop acted and moved very human. He had stuff on his helmet and visor to I guess give him lots of data on what he was doing, but he was a guy. Otherwise, why would he have a separate air bike? A "Cop-Bot" could have been vehicle and officer in one, right?
True. I guess it was just his Robocop vocal delivery that did it for me.

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May 12, 2009, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
He must've taken lessons from Morpheus in Matrix: Reloaded.
...I don't remember (Other than the helicopter).
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:43 PM
 
The whole scene where he is fighting the agent on top of the moving semi, he lands on the very edge like 7 times in the span of 5 minutes.
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:44 PM
 
Oh yeah, my head was in the wrong movie.
     
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May 12, 2009, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Speaking of the gorge, let's hear it for Kirk hanging precariously off a ledge no less than three times in this movie.
Forget that. Let's hear it for Kirk getting it on no less than...well, just once, I guess. Mirror universe!

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May 12, 2009, 02:09 PM
 
Kirk was an avid rock climber (without harnesses), if I remember correctly from another movie.
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May 12, 2009, 02:10 PM
 
What does that have to do with anything?
     
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May 12, 2009, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I mention this because Star Trek: TNG would be much harder to remaster in HD. Although the show was shot on film, it was edited on standard definition videotape for final broadcast. To properly remaster The Next Generation for HD, they'd have to re-edit the entire series using the original film stock. That would take forever and probably wouldn't be worth it.
Anything involving TNG is worth it. ANYTHING.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Have you seen it on a big screen? It ROCKS on big screens. Even a DVD version on a large flat-panel TV would look MUCH better than anything on a small and/or CRT TV. It's truly amazing how BAD even really good film can look on a mediocre TV. For example, in the theater, you NEVER saw "garbage matte" lines around the ships in any of the Star Wars movies, but on TV-until Lucas remastered the fun heck out of them, you could see just about every one. It's all about the odd differences in contrast and black levels between film and TV in this case, but it's there and it can make great films look very cruddy.

FWIW, that "sneak preview" of "Star Trek" that they did in Austin about 3 weeks ago? The way they got people to show up all unsuspecting was to offer them a chance to see Kahn on the big screen with a pristine print. They had the place packed. You really need to see these films from high quality prints and on a really big screen.
I'll watch it this weekend on my LCD TV and get back with you. Last time I saw it was indeed on a 27" CRT HDTV.
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Anything involving TNG is worth it. ANYTHING.

I'll watch it this weekend on my LCD TV and get back with you. Last time I saw it was indeed on a 27" CRT HDTV.
The TWK model shots are nice IMO. They make it worth seeing just by themselves. We watched the original DVD version upconverted to 42" the other night, and it was pretty spectacular.

I remember reading that Khan was going to be shown in Austin, it caused a stir. ANYTIME you can watch something projected is good. Rita Wilson (Tom Hanks' wife) says he used to make a big deal about how many times he'd watched "2001" on the big screen -- I can understand. Now LCDs are bringing back that same scrutiny of bygone films, and I love it.
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May 12, 2009, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Anything involving TNG is worth it. ANYTHING.
Heh. If you pay for it, I'm sure they'll do it.

I'm not convinced the business case is there to do it for all episodes of all TNG seasons, given the enormous amount of work necessary. How many of you here would actually buy all the TNG seasons if they remastered them to HD? I wouldn't, and I'm a Trek fan in a Trek thread.

They are remastering all of the original series, but it's easier to do it, and the cost is supposedly much less. Even though the film has faded, at least the detail is still there, because the final edited version is on film. They did spend some time redoing some shots in CG, but from what I gather it's way easier to do all that than to reedit the entire TNG series from the original film stock.

I'll watch it this weekend on my LCD TV and get back with you. Last time I saw it was indeed on a 27" CRT HDTV.
BTW, I watched the first season of the original Trek series on HD DVD on a 90" HD projection screen. It looks great. Obviously it's not as detailed as watching some movie from 2009, but it's not surprisingly way better than watching even the remastered DVDs upscaled. (The HD DVDs have the remastered HD DVD on one side, and the remastered DVD on the other, so I could do a direct comparison.)



I'm really looking forward to Wrath of Khan on Blu-ray. I have The Thing (from the same era) on HD DVD, and while again it's not up to 2009 standards, the image improvement over DVD is very noticeable.
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
The re-done effects for TOS should be held up to everyone as to how you update special effects while staying true to the original.
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by dzp111 View Post
Kirk was an avid rock climber (without harnesses), if I remember correctly from another movie.
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
What does that have to do with anything?
Someone mentioned the fact that he hangs at the edge of a cliff a few times in the movie. It made me recall the fact that rock climbing was a hobby of his in later movies. It's just a connection I made. No biggie.
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May 12, 2009, 03:30 PM
 
I'd be VERY surprised if they go through the trouble of remastering EVERY TNG episode. I can see maybe doing a handful of the best ones, but all seven seasons? No way. There's not enough interest anymore to get back the money they'd invest in it.

You'd have to:

Rescan every frame of every episode. Seven seasons x ~22 episodes per season = 154 episodes, ~42 minutes each. That's a lot of damn scanning.

Then go back into each episode, and properly frame and color correct them.

Then put in the special effects.

Then remaster the audio for each show.

Not going to happen.

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May 12, 2009, 03:31 PM
 
I'd be surprised if they went to the trouble for a best of.
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
If so wouldn't the universe constantly be starting over with new realities every time some crap gets sucked into a black hole anywhere, presumably every second of every day?
How do you know it isn't?
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May 12, 2009, 03:36 PM
 
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I'd be VERY surprised if they go through the trouble of remastering EVERY TNG episode. I can see maybe doing a handful of the best ones, but all seven seasons? No way. There's not enough interest anymore to get back the money they'd invest in it.

You'd have to:

Rescan every frame of every episode. Seven seasons x ~22 episodes per season = 154 episodes, ~42 minutes each. That's a lot of damn scanning.

Then go back into each episode, and properly frame and color correct them.

Then put in the special effects.

Then remaster the audio for each show.

Not going to happen.
You forgot the kicker. TNG was not edited on film. The film they have is the unedited footage. The edits for the final version were done on videotape, at standard definition resolution.

Thus they'd have to scan a lot more film than just 42 minutes worth per episode, and then match up the edit points with the beta videotapes.

The reason I mention this is because what you describe is essentially what they did with the 3 seasons of the original series. Scanned it all in, cleaned it all up, remastered the audio, and redid much of the special effects.
     
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May 12, 2009, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
You forgot the kicker. TNG was not edited on film. The film they have is the unedited footage. The edits for the final version were done on videotape, at standard definition resolution.

Thus they'd have to scan a lot more film than just 42 minutes worth per episode, and then match up the edit points with the beta videotapes.

The reason I mention this is because what you describe is essentially what they did with the 3 seasons of the original series. Scanned it all in, cleaned it all up, remastered the audio, and redid much of the special effects.
If they did it (and that's the big IF), I would buy it in a heartbeat. That, and DS9, and I already have most of DS9 on DVD. I'd re-buy it in remastered HD (not just upconverted), that's how much I enjoy these shows. I suspect I'm not alone.
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May 12, 2009, 03:46 PM
 
It's a bummer, because TNG was far and away the best of the Star Trek series.
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May 12, 2009, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
It's a bummer, because TNG was far and away the best of the Star Trek series.
Not for me. I prefer the TOS, mainly because Spock and Kirk are my fave characters, and I found characters like Wesley Crusher and Deanna Troi annoying. "He's hiding something, Captain."

Some of my favourite Trek episodes are with TNG though, like "The Inner Light".

Suffice it to say though, even though I like Trek a lot and TNG too, even this Trekkie/er wouldn't buy all 7 seasons of TNG on Blu-ray. I suspect that's what the studios are afraid of, and for good reason, and thus I think it's quite unlikely they'll devote the time and money to remastering TNG for HD.
     
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May 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
You forgot the kicker. TNG was not edited on film. The film they have is the unedited footage. The edits for the final version were done on videotape, at standard definition resolution.

Thus they'd have to scan a lot more film than just 42 minutes worth per episode, and then match up the edit points with the beta videotapes.

The reason I mention this is because what you describe is essentially what they did with the 3 seasons of the original series. Scanned it all in, cleaned it all up, remastered the audio, and redid much of the special effects.
Isn't that what I just said?

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May 12, 2009, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Not for me. I prefer the TOS, mainly because Spock and Kirk are my fave characters, and I found characters like Wesley Crusher and Deanna Troi annoying. "He's hiding something, Captain."

Some of my favourite Trek episodes are with TNG though, like "The Inner Light".

Suffice it to say though, even though I like Trek a lot and TNG too, even this Trekkie/er wouldn't buy all 7 seasons of TNG on Blu-ray. I suspect that's what the studios are afraid of, and for good reason, and thus I think it's quite unlikely they'll devote the time and money to remastering TNG for HD.
TOS' plots were hokey as all get-out. It was pretty novel for its day, but much like Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, as culture has progressed, nowadays the preachiness and flaws in the storytelling stand out much more starkly. TNG sometimes fell into that too, especially in the first season, but it managed to transcend it. In my eyes, TOS didn't really grow up until The Wrath of Khan. (Ironically, TNG devolved when it moved to the big screen. I still say All Good Things… would have made a much better movie than any of the actual films from that series.)
Chuck
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May 12, 2009, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Hokey smoke...that new version is horrible. The planet in the original version is far more effective, much more atmospheric and mysterious, I don't care how "accurate" the new version is. That old planet has far more impact. That new one looks like a flat disc.
     
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May 12, 2009, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
TOS' plots were hokey as all get-out. It was pretty novel for its day, but much like Guess Who's Coming To Dinner, as culture has progressed, nowadays the preachiness and flaws in the storytelling stand out much more starkly. TNG sometimes fell into that too, especially in the first season, but it managed to transcend it. In my eyes, TOS didn't really grow up until The Wrath of Khan. (Ironically, TNG devolved when it moved to the big screen. I still say All Good Things… would have made a much better movie than any of the actual films from that series.)
One of my favourite Trek episodes of all time is Mirror, Mirror.



Another favourite Trek episode of all time is Journey To Babel.



Spock: There is no logic in the attack on the Captain. There is no logic in Gav's murder.
Shras: Perhaps you should forget about logic, and devote yourself to motivation and passion and gain. Those are reasons for murder.


I thought their plots were good, but even better were the character analyses.

TNG's The Inner Light is in my top 5, but I'm not sure where. Maybe in the top 3.
     
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May 12, 2009, 04:31 PM
 
City on the Edge of Forever needs props.
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:38 PM
 
Indeed.

I liked the TOS ep where the anthropologist defied the Prime Directive and created a Fascistic society. Eh, found the title: "Patterns of Force".
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:41 PM
 
I'm a sucker for SS unis.
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Forget that. Let's hear it for Kirk getting it on no less than...well, just once, I guess. Mirror universe!
Well, it wasn't for lack of trying, though.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett View Post
Well, it wasn't for lack of trying, though.
I wanted to see him putting on his boots.

Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
I'm a sucker for SS unis.
This thread is about Kirk's (and Uhura's and Spock's) sex life, not yours.
     
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May 12, 2009, 05:49 PM
 
That's... an interesting connection to make.
     
 
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