[turtle777]

[rant]

WTF do co-workers send emails to me, put my name in CC, but expect me to take action ?

Isn't it common sense that CC = FYI ?

Aaargh.

[/rant]

-t

[Eriamjh]

You have to read the email and see why they are CC you. You may not be a direct receiver, but still should be involved.

If it doesn't directly as you to do something, tell them to STFU.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

You have to read the email and see why they are CC you.

No, I don't.

I filter email that I'm CCed on into a separate folder, which I don't check very often.

Then I get those calls "I sent you something, did you DO it ?"
And I'm like "Diiiiiiieeeeeeee!!1!11"

-t

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I filter email that I'm CCed on into a separate folder, which I don't check very often.

Bizarre. But anyway, just tell them that and hopefully in the future they will include you in the "To..." line when they are tasking you with something.

[SSharon]

I think it will be easier to read emails you are CCed on than try to change the behavior of everyone in the office.

Some people in my office CC me just as an FYI, but others expect me or the original recipient to do something and don't specify who (if the work gets done they don't care who does it) should do it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

I think it will be easier to read emails you are CCed on than try to change the behavior of everyone in the office.

I can't, it's too much. And mostly unnecessary crap.

I just don't understand based on WHAT criteria those people divide their recipients up into TO and CC, if they expect people from both groups to take action.

Then don't use CC at all...

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

but others expect me or the original recipient to do something and don't specify who (if the work gets done they don't care who does it) should do it.

This is just such a bad habit.
Do those people realize how much inefficiencies they create by this ?

a) some work will not be done by anyone
b) some work will be done by multiple people

It's absolutely effing stupid to expect a group of people to coordinate among themselves, and divide up who would do it.

People should make VERY CLEAR in their email who they expect work to be done. Those should be addressed by name, and put in TO. (The rest is FYI, and goes in CC.)

IF they intend for work to be split up, they should state this very clearly, and make sure the tasks are assigned FIRST, before stuff gets done double.

-t

[Maflynn]

I generally read emails that I get, regardless if I'm CC'd or I'm the specific recipient. It seems like its more inefficient to ignore those emails and potentially miss important information or tasks.

I cannot comment if they overtly asked you by name to do a task from which you were CC'd but that's how it works where I work. An email will go out, and there may be a paragraph or a few lines for me to do what I need to do within the scope of the project.

I never really made a disctinction that CC = FYI as much as the sender thought it was important enough to include me in the email list and so I'll make the effort of reading the email

*shrugs* I guess that's just me.


edit: btw, I don't think putting you in the CC list and expecting work is a lack of email etiquette but not responding to an email is rather rude even if you were on the CC list.

[Jens Peter]

I used to work on a project, with teams in the US and Denmark. The americans CC'ed almost everyone and always the team leader and the project leader, even on simple decisions that the team member should take. Of course that resulted in the team and project lead could never have a complete overview because they were bombarded with information. We tried to explain this on several meeting, but my guess is, that they wanted to ensure, that their lead knew everything they were doing...

On the project I'm on now, I only get CC'ed on stuff were I actually have an opinion, not just acceptance of meeting invites and other trivial issues..

Maybe it's an american thing?

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Jens Peter 

On the project I'm on now, I only get CC'ed on stuff were I actually have an opinion, not just acceptance of meeting invites and other trivial issues..

Maybe it's an american thing?

I don't think its an American thing because, the only emails (CC'd or sent TO me) I get are within the confines of my responsibilities and perhaps that's why I failed to understand Turtle's issues. Maybe in his organization/division he does get bombarded. If anything I don't get enough emails but that's a story for another thread

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Jens Peter 

Maybe it's an american thing?

No, I get the same issues with colleagues from Germany and other European countries.

Maybe Americans are even less disciplined, or trying to cover their bases by CC'ing everyone.

In the end, it comes down to email becoming more and more an inefficient communication media, because people just "spam" people by including them, even though it is not really necessary.

-t

[nonhuman]

I think it has a lot to do with corporate culture. The more adversarial and cut-throat a company is the more important it is to CYA and make sure that you get credit for your accomplishments and aren't blamed for other people's failures. When I had an office job I also CCed my manager on any potentially controversial email conversations because in the company that I was at failing to do so could easily mean that someone else might try and blame me for doing something I didn't or failing to do something I did. This is a large part of the reason that I'm no longer at that company.

It's probably worth noting that it was a British company and even in the American offices most of the higher-ups were British while the rest of us were American. I think this resulted in a sort of culture clash that led to things being much worse than they otherwise would have been simply because the Brits expected different things than the Americans expected to have to give.

[ort888]

A lot of our clients send us emails that look they were written from one 15-year old girl to another. Seriously. I don't get it. These are college educated adults sending out business correspondences to an outside company and they say things like this....


good but need change to 1.49 on secnd berber item and

change copy to amazing save 22 colors and look greta

maybe go for blue

can we do 4.99 for wood

what about financ can we check disc

[mattyb]

I worked for a company with 90,000 people up until March of this year - I got maybe 20 emails per day. I now work for a company of 8000 and I get over 200 emails per day. I am not a manager, or a team leader. I have asked to be removed from several distribution lists but they insist that I have to remain in them. I have tried to point out that using email in this way just leads people to ignore their inbox but have been told that my inbox is more important than the monitoring tools that we use and the trouble ticket system that is in place. The guy that hired me to 'professionalize' the management of the Oracle databases has resigned due to frustration - he was basically second in command of 300 people.

Email, IMHO, should not be used as a medium that requires action within a working day. If I'm CC'd in on an email, there may be something for me to do (or not), but it isn't directly specified. Usually they are FYI, but I've now got so much work on that if anyone wants me to do any work, they have to go through my boss first - then its him that can decide what I put on the back burner.

Not sure if this is the best way to work, but in the present environment I haven't found a better system.

[imitchellg5]

I've never understood what the CC thing was for.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I've never understood what the CC thing was for.

It doesn't really make all that much sense in the context of email, but it's basically there so that you can alert the intended recipient of the message that someone else has also seen it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I've never understood what the CC thing was for.

Now you know.

Glad to be of service.

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

closed caption e-mail

[Maflynn]

CC stands for Carbon Copy and back in the day people in business used to get a "Carbon Copies" of a memo or document. This is back in pre computer days when Carbon paper (that paper with ink covered on one side) was used to create multiple copies of a document when typing said document on a typewriter

[Spheric Harlot]

Basically, this is how it works:

To: these are the people actually addressed in the e-mail. They are the the ones talked to and required to reply or take action.

Carbon Copy: These are the people who aren't directly addressed, but who receive a copy as FYI or out of courtesy. Usually superiors or others who are directly involved in the decisions or contents of the e-mail.

Blind Carbon Copy: These are the people that you want to INOFFICIALLY inform of what's going on but don't want anybody else to see that they've received a copy, or don't want them to see the address. Examples would be BCC'ing your e-mail response to an external complaint to your supervisor and company lawyer - both people whose addresses you are not going to give out to the complainer, and where it might actually be counterproductive to let the complainer know that they are informed of the situation.

OR
BCC is the field used for large information mailings, where it's common sense to hide the recipients' addresses from one another. Apart from legal aspects of privacy protection, this alternate use of the BCC field is just basic courtesy. (I certainly don't appreciate my e-mail addresses being publicly spammed to hundreds of people not of my choosing.)

[SpaceMonkey]

BCC is also helpful for large information mailings because it makes it impossible for some dolt to "reply all".

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

BCC is also helpful for large information mailings because it makes it impossible for some dolt to "reply all".

» E-mail debacle, ensuing spam sparks Boston College cyber-phenomenon UWIRE: Powered by The Content Generation

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

� E-mail debacle, ensuing spam sparks Boston College cyber-phenomenon UWIRE: Powered by The Content Generation

Students who responded to the e-mail may be in violation of the policy as well. Those who distributed pornographic Web sites under the guise of a link that would remove students from the listserv violated a clause that prohibits offensive behavior by users of the BC network or information technology infrastructure.

hahahaha

[ghporter]

Why do people bother to even give taskings by email in the first place? Can you guarantee that the intended recipient(s) got the message? Probably not. And the recipient(s) can claim ignorance even if they did get it and you can't prove otherwise. Taskings should be done, at the very least BY PHONE. Sure, provide details in an email-it's great for that. But TALK TO THE PERSON YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING. Why so many managers act like chicken----s about actually talking to the people they manage is beyond me. When I was a manager, I preferred to actually talk to my people IN PERSON rather than even on the phone because I could get more out of the conversation that way.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Why do people bother to even give taskings by email in the first place?

Simple. It's called covering your a$$. Email is a paper trail, you can pinpoint and prove ,who and when, a project was given. I have had issues were people have 'amnesia' on why I made changes on certain projects. I pull up the email THEY sent and give the same answer EVERY time. (umm.... BECAUSE YO SAID SO!) . This ends the debates and blame right there on the spot, so I prefer to do that and if I have questions do that in person.Face to face is always the best option to me for any complex issue.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Simple. It's called covering your a$$. Email is a paper trail, you can pinpoint and prove ,who and when, a project was given. I have had issues were people have 'amnesia' on why I made changes on certain projects. I pull up the email THEY sent and give the same answer EVERY time. (umm.... BECAUSE YO SAID SO!) . This ends the debates and blame right there on the spot, so I prefer to do that and if I have questions do that in person.Face to face is always the best option to me for any complex issue.

That's the details I'm referring to. Call people or talk to them face to face and say "I'll give you the details in an email, but you're doing this project and you'll give me regular reports on it." Then send them the email with all the details, like changes to a project. And if they're worth their pay at all, if you're not snappy with that email, they should be calling YOU to say "I can't start without that email!"

But the TASKING itself is when you talk to them and say "you're doing this." Everything else is (maybe crucial) details.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Why do people bother to even give taskings by email in the first place? Can you guarantee that the intended recipient( even if they did get it and you can't prove otherwise. Taskings should be done, at the very least BY PHONE. Sure, provide details in an email-it's great for that.

In my line of work (finance in a multinational company), there are two reasons why tasks are handed out by email:

1) most tasks involve spreadsheets or presentations that are being shared and worked on
2) time zone difference - I deal with colleagues from Germany, Czech Republic, Rumania and the Philippines on a daily basis.

-t

[RAILhead]

I delete any email that's CCd or FWDed. Email me or don't -- period.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I delete any email that's CCd or FWDed. Email me or don't -- period.

Uhh, a forwarded e-mail can easily be directed specifically at you …

[torsoboy]

I prefer email to a call about 99.9% of the time when it comes to work tasks being given, or received. Especially if the details are complicated. And if it is job related I expect a response within a very short period of time (10 minutes to a couple of hours). If we have to talk on the phone or face to face then they (or I) need to write it in an email right after and say, "this is what we discussed."

I HATE companies that have their email address on their sites and then take days to respond. They almost always lose my business.

The idea that the email might not ever make it to the recipient is pretty lame. It is almost guaranteed to have made it, and if that is your excuse as to why you don't like them then you are really grasping to come up with a reason.

About the CC thing... if you prefer TOs to CCs then that's your own deal, but it has nothing to do with "etiquette" as far as I am concerned. If it is an email from someone at work, read it or you are to blame for any missed projects or deadlines.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

In my line of work (finance in a multinational company), there are two reasons why tasks are handed out by email:

1) most tasks involve spreadsheets or presentations that are being shared and worked on
2) time zone difference - I deal with colleagues from Germany, Czech Republic, Rumania and the Philippines on a daily basis.

-t

How do you make sure your emails are received? Do you follow up with a call, or do you depend on the recipient to reply to the email? An email that you send but isn't necessarily received is no better than talking to yourself.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

How do you make sure your emails are received? Do you follow up with a call, or do you depend on the recipient to reply to the email? An email that you send but isn't necessarily received is no better than talking to yourself.

I agree, it's a weak spot.

In general, received doesn't mean read.
Read doesn't mean understood.
Understood doesn't mean action is taken.
Action taken doesn't mean it's done in a timely manner.

But all these issues you have with calls as well. You leave a voice message, but how do you know it's received, listened to, understood and action taken ?

Plus, with some colleagues, it's easier to deal with in written English than over the phone. They just don't "get" everything when you speak to them, due to their limited grasp of the English spoken language. They are much better trained in written English.
On the phone, they will always say "Yes, yes", even if they don't have the faintest clue about what was said. Especially in Asian cultures, you just don't speak up and say "Hold it, I don't get it."

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I delete any email that's CCd or FWDed. Email me or don't -- period.

Fwd'ed mail too?

Somebody considered an e-mail that he received important enough to go to the effort of forwarding it to you to be ignored?

Of course, there's all the stupid office joke tripe, but still.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

The idea that the email might not ever make it to the recipient is pretty lame. It is almost guaranteed to have made it, and if that is your excuse as to why you don't like them then you are really grasping to come up with a reason.

You obviously missed the whole .mac --> MobileMe transition debacle.

I've had enough cases where I *know* I missed an e-mail, and shudder to think what opportunities I've missed because I couldn't respond.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

CC stands for Carbon Copy and back in the day people in business used to get a "Carbon Copies" of a memo or document. This is back in pre computer days when Carbon paper (that paper with ink covered on one side) was used to create multiple copies of a document when typing said document on a typewriter

Exactly

Back in the day, NOBODY would have ever expected someone to take action based on a CarbonCopy. Never. It was always FYI.

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

About the CC thing... if you prefer TOs to CCs then that's your own deal, but it has nothing to do with "etiquette" as far as I am concerned. If it is an email from someone at work, read it or you are to blame for any missed projects or deadlines.

I disagree. Why even use CC then. And based on what criteria ?

-t

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I disagree. Why even use CC then. And based on what criteria ?
-t

I used to use CC when I wanted to send the email to more than one person. Back before I figured out that the "TO" field could also handle more than one email address (it just seemed like "To" should be one specific person). Now I use them interchangably... sometimes everyone goes into the TO and sometimes everyone except one goes into the "CC" field. In my opinion it is a dated field that has no purpose any longer.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

In my opinion it is a dated field that has no purpose any longer.

Why ? What's wrong with the old, original purpose of "FYI" ?

See, this is what I dislike about the internet. It makes people lazy and forget about things that had a purpose and reason.

-t

[brassplayersrock²]

like books?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

like books?

Well, like someone using books as a door stop, and when asked, saying that those books don't make sense anymore, because they don't contain leetspeak.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I used to use CC when I wanted to send the email to more than one person. Back before I figured out that the "TO" field could also handle more than one email address (it just seemed like "To" should be one specific person). Now I use them interchangably... sometimes everyone goes into the TO and sometimes everyone except one goes into the "CC" field. In my opinion it is a dated field that has no purpose any longer.

With all due respect: if you use a shoehorn to apply whipped cream to your pies, that doesn't mean that it's not actually better suited to being used as a shoehorn.

[brassplayersrock²]

wtf? I get what you're saying SH. but damn, where tf did that lil analogy come from?

[Spheric Harlot]

lack of sleep and a burst of inspiration.

[brassplayersrock²]

Sell me some of what you have, and we'll be friends for life. *scratches non itchy arm*

p.s.

Thank you for using the - when you say e-mail (it's the little things that bug me sometimes)

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

sell me some of what you have, and we'll be friends for life. *scratches non itchy arm*

I'm NOT SELLING MY DAUGHTER!

[brassplayersrock²]

she was your burst of inspiration??
hah! that could be taken in so many ways.

[Spheric Harlot]

she was my lack of sleep.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Sell me some of what you have, and we'll be friends for life. *scratches non itchy arm*

p.s.

Thank you for using the - when you say e-mail (it's the little things that bug me sometimes)

What's wrong with email or eMail? They're both acceptable.