[shifuimam]

http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184

Epic. Fail.

It amazes me how stupid people are. How hard is it to read and make sure you check the box next to "Windows Vista" when you build your machine on dell.com?

Edit: yeah, the service rep told her to stick with Ubuntu. He shouldn't have done that. But it's not Dell's fault that she didn't insist on having her order changed. Still, I LOLed.

[andreas_g4]

This is the kind of folks who return an iPod "because it's too complicated to get music on it"…

[iMOTOR]

Shouldn’t the title be:
“Woman blames Dell because she doesn’t want Ubuntu”.

[starman]

To be fair, if you go to Dell's site, they push Windows like crazy. She probably didn't know what Ubuntu was. Can't say I really blame her.

EDIT:

The top of the page on dell.com's site says "Dell recommends Windows Vista® Home Premium."

The main page for laptops says "The Mini 9 is now $299!".

The Mini 9 comes with Ubuntu by default.

Not COMPLETELY misleading, but I can see why this can happen. I'll bet she's not the first. Why do you think the rep had a script all ready?

[Oisín]

She also says Dell claimed it was now too late to get Windows and any changes she made herself would void her warranty.

Could someone please explain to me how installing a new (compatible) OS (without in any way hacking the computer) would void the warranty on a piece of hardware? This sounds completely ludicrous to me.

[brassplayersrock²]

good, another future mac switcher

[analogue SPRINKLES]

The woman is a bit of an idiot. She drops out of class rather than returning the unit?

The slightest bit of research after the fact could have solved all her problems.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

good, another future mac switcher

We don't want her.

[Laminar]

And the update:
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.a...nav=menu1362_2

[starman]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

And the update:
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.a...nav=menu1362_2

So sad. Really.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by iMOTOR 

Shouldn’t the title be:
“Woman blames Dell because she doesn’t want Ubuntu”.

From the sound of things, she doesn't believe it is possible to edit text without Microsoft Word, which doesn't come with Ubuntu. So "can't use" seems fairly accurate. (Unless my perusal of /. has misled me, which is of course impossible.)

You know, I'm the first person to slam Linux for its usability and design problems, but some people just shouldn't be using computers.

[ctt1wbw]

Slam Linux for it's usability? It's freakin easier than Windows. And it's FREE. What is so hard about it?

[tooki]

Incredible, astounding inconsistency is what.

[Chuckit]

OK, since we're talking about Ubuntu here, I'll start with a few of the more obvious things:

In Windows, you have the Start menu with commonly used applications right there and a text field for anything else. In Ubuntu, you have that weird thing that wishes it were the Apple Menu with several dozen applications assigned into seven (I think?) categories. And half the application names make absolutely no sense. ("I want to check my mail. I think I'll look beside the word processor for a program called 'Evolution.'")

Something really odd I came across when I was setting up an Ubuntu box recently: Synaptic includes several packages that depend on Ruby — but Synaptic simply couldn't find Ruby itself. Why? I honestly have no idea.

And the No. 1 gripe I and everybody else I know who's tried installing Linux on an arbitrary desktop has had: About 75% of the time, it will fail to correctly recognize some piece of hardware or something without some effort on the user's part. For me, getting it to recognize a display's available resolutions has been a hassle on several locations — usually a hassle that involved me completely ****ing up my xorg.conf and having to restore the .bak seven times. In fairness, OS X failed to correctly recognize one of these displays too, but at least I didn't have to repeatedly hose the windowserver in order to fix it. (Included in this is the fact that although Ubuntu finally includes Broadcom drivers, the OS will not enable them or even tell you they're there. You have to figure it out and do it yourself.)

[starman]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Slam Linux for it's usability? It's freakin easier than Windows. And it's FREE. What is so hard about it?

Do you REALLY want to go there?

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And the No. 1 gripe I and everybody else I know who's tried installing Linux on an arbitrary desktop has had: About 75% of the time, it will fail to correctly recognize some piece of hardware or something without some effort on the user's part.

This. Every SINGLE time I tried installing Linux on a box, it wouldn't recognize SOMETHING. It's f'n annoying. Linux freaks always tell you that you can install it on anything. Well, that's not quite true. You have to have hardware that's old enough where someone was able to write drivers for it.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You know, I'm the first person to slam Linux for its usability and design problems, but some people just shouldn't be using computers.

You say that from the point of view of someone that understands them. Most people don't. To be honest, I don't like how Dell mixes Linux and Windows on the same page. They should dedicate and entire section to Linux machines so that this doesn't happen.

[shifuimam]

In this particular case, part of the problem is that she didn't take any personal responsibility for her situation (which seems to be how most Americans operate in regards to everything these days).

She could have called a friend. She could have called Verizon and asked for assistance on getting online without using the CD (it's really insanely easy, btw, if you've never used DSL). She could have gone to the public library and googled "Ubuntu Verizon DSL" and "Ubuntu Microsoft Word" to figure out what she needed to do.

I fault the Dell support guy for convincing her to stick with Ubuntu when she initially called support. They were full of crap about how installing Windows would void the warranty; the hardware is still warranted. Ubuntu really isn't that hard to use (and when it comes preinstalled, you know all your hardware is going to work), but for someone who might be middle-aged or technophobic, I can completely understand why they would be freaked when confronted with an unfamiliar operating system.

It would appear that this woman did almost nothing to remedy her situation before giving up, calling her local news station, and demanding the she be able to return the computer.

I mean, I doubt she really bothered to ask about the return policy, since Dell has a no-questions-asked 30-day "Total Satisfaction" return policy. It just seems like she didn't ask more than two or three questions before throwing her hands up and giving up entirely.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

For me, getting it to recognize a display's available resolutions has been a hassle on several locations — usually a hassle that involved me completely ****ing up my xorg.conf and having to restore the .bak seven times.

This has happened to me on 100% of my Linux installations. Even OS X on a PC recognizes possible display resolutions, and it was never meant to work like that at all.

[zro]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I mean, I doubt she really bothered to ask about the return policy, since Dell has a no-questions-asked 30-day "Total Satisfaction" return policy. It just seems like she didn't ask more than two or three questions before throwing her hands up and giving up entirely.

I doubt they don't ask questions. I'm sure they, like any business, want to keep your money without spending any of theirs. I'm sure the real policy is, "try to get them to want to keep the product."

The real problem with the girl is she's a push over.

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

It amazes me how stupid people are. How hard is it to read and make sure you check the box next to "Windows Vista" when you build your machine on dell.com?

There are many types of intelligence. So the girl doesn't have any technical knowledge, but it doesn't make her stupid. I think she is ignorant and dropping out of school is extreme, but I'm sure there is a deeper issue why she dropped out of school and is using the computer as a rationalization.

It's easy to laugh at her because 99% of us here are nerds and we eat, sleep and breath anything tech related. I know quite a few people who don't have an ounce of tech knowledge in their body, but are extremely intelligent. My sis is a DVM for exotic animals - operates on birds, fish, guinea pigs, ferrets, rabbits, iguanas, etc. Always calling me for computer help - couldn't even setup a wireless network. My ex-girlfriend is an M4 in med school - also calls for computer help, last call was how to copy a file from her laptop to external drive. I've asked them both how they can be doctors but not understand how to do such simple things. I don't get it. Point is not everyone has tech smarts, but it doesn't make them stupid. We all have different talents.

For all we know, this dell laptop girl could speak 4 languages and play classical piano.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by waxcrash 

For all we know, this dell laptop girl could speak 4 languages and play classical piano.

Or, more importantly, suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Or, more importantly, suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

How is that useful skil–OOOOOHHHHHH

[mattyb]

Is most countries in the world, you have to pass a test to drive a car on public roads. Well, why not a test for computer usage? Internet usage?

Actually a 'are you intelligent enough to look after/have kids' test might be needed as well.

[Salty]

I've long thought that people should be tested for parenting skills... with a computer you can mainly only hurt yourself if you really screw things up... this woman should have to have her tubes tied...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

You say that from the point of view of someone that understands them. Most people don't.

Sure. Most people don't understand computers as well as I do. But when my mom would look at you and shake her head in disbelief, you're really in need of an education.

[besson3c]

Xorg is definitely a weak point. It is good that the recent versions of Ubuntu have that fail safe mode - it's better than nothing.

Chuckit, while open source developers are particularly bad about coming up with names for their products that suggest their intended usage, the problem isn't confined to Linux or open source. However, in general it is pretty clear to me that the Gnome/KDE desktop environments are weaker than both Windows and OS X overall in terms of ease-of-use and GUI usability.

However, since Linux is used so prominently as a server OS, I think one has to be careful about discussing the "design of Linux", because the design of the command line environment is really quite impressive. Microsoft has had years to come up with a richer environment for administrators and they haven't been able to best the Linux and the gnutools or the BSD environment, both of which have not made radical changes to their CLI paradigms. Many of the Windows CLI tools (e.g. the MySQL shell) mimic the interface conventions developed under Unix/Linux, which is telling.

Again, just the same way people conflate usability with the look of the interface, people also conflate an interface with a graphical interface. Obviously GUIs are the most prominent type of interface for the majority of computer users, but like I said, when you critique Linux as a whole and its design, considering that it is first and foremost a server OS it is only fair to critique the most commonly used interface used for this specialization.

[starman]

The amount of hate from people in this thread is appalling.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by starman 

The amount of hate from people in this thread is appalling.

Would you say that you hate them?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Chuckit, while open source developers are particularly bad about coming up with names for their products that suggest their intended usage, the problem isn't confined to Linux or open source.

That's true, but both Apple and Microsoft go to some trouble to make it clear what I need to do to get my email. If they're going to be including these programs as part of the core OS package, they need to consider this stuff rather than just plopping down whatever free software they can find.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

However, since Linux is used so prominently as a server OS, I think one has to be careful about discussing the "design of Linux"

We're talking about Ubuntu Desktop Edition. The argument that it's a "server OS" does not hold water.

[Salty]

Really they just need to learn how to make good icons... first step linux developers... are you listening? Drop the GIMP and use Photoshop for your icon

[ibookuser2]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

In Windows, you have the Start menu with commonly used applications right there and a text field for anything else. In Ubuntu, you have that weird thing that wishes it were the Apple Menu with several dozen applications assigned into seven (I think?) categories. And half the application names make absolutely no sense. ("I want to check my mail. I think I'll look beside the word processor for a program called 'Evolution.'")

As opposed to finding the program called 'Outlook Express' on Windows? 'Evolution Mail' is under the Internet category in the Applications menu on Ubuntu, and at least it has the word 'Mail' in its name. The similarity of the applications menu is only the location on the screen... why does that matter? And the categories are a good thing. The start menu is a disorganized mess at best, where you generally look for a program based on the name of the company that made it, in a list that's roughly ordered by the order in which you installed things and not alphabetically or any other logical manner...

Ubuntu is certainly not perfect, but your criticism of this particular aspect seems a bit misplaced...

[CharlesS]

Gee, I wonder what this little envelope icon in the menubar does?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ibookuser2 

As opposed to finding the program called 'Outlook Express' on Windows? 'Evolution Mail' is under the Internet category in the Applications menu on Ubuntu, and at least it has the word 'Mail' in its name. The similarity of the applications menu is only the location on the screen... why does that matter? And the categories are a good thing. The start menu is a disorganized mess at best, where you generally look for a program based on the name of the company that made it, in a list that's roughly ordered by the order in which you installed things and not alphabetically or any other logical manner...

Ubuntu is certainly not perfect, but your criticism of this particular aspect seems a bit misplaced...

In XP, the default mail and web browser clients are listed in the Start Menu as "Internet" and "E-mail."

[mduell]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

good, another future mac switcher

Wouldn't she have the same problem?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Wouldn't she have the same problem?

Not at all: you can buy Office pre-installed on a Mac.

[Salty]

I bet she's a lesbian...

[Dakar V]

Fantastic non-sequitur.

[shifuimam]

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure Ubuntu comes preinstalled with OpenOffice, which is very compatible with MS Office.

I can probably tell you exactly what went through this woman's head, because I do tech support for my mom, my two aunts, and my mom's friends.

Middle-aged people are generally terrified of technology. They're afraid that by breathing funny while seated by the computer, it will suddenly explode into a shower of sparks and smoke. This woman is likely one of the types who thinks that every time she gets a virus or a bum piece of software, she has to go buy a new computer, believing that her current one is now permanently unusable.

Ubuntu is not hard to use. I've used it many times in the past. I have particular hardware needs that Ubuntu has a hard time accommodating (namely, an all-in-one Epson printer and a dual display setup on my home desktop), plus software needs like Photoshop (GIMP just doesn't cut it, sorry), etc. However, as a basic OS, Ubuntu is damn easy to figure out. As seen in CharlesS's screenshot, there is a very obvious icon for both Mail and Firefox right on the main toolbar. All you have to do is look for a minute.

However, that's not how these kinds of users operate. Either it needs to be exactly how they've always done it, or they need their hand held every step of the way. The concept of intuition and inferring usage by context is completely foreign to them. It's incredibly annoying, but it's just how it is. My mom is extremely intelligent, but she still hasn't figured out how to use Windows Live Photo Gallery to upload photos to Flickr. She also still thinks that Google is the beginning of the Internet (she never uses her browser's address bar to actually type in URLs; she puts them in Google and clicks the first link that comes up). She's not dumb; she just has this mentality that computers are to be feared, and it's not worth even attempting to figure things out on your own.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

That's true, but both Apple and Microsoft go to some trouble to make it clear what I need to do to get my email. If they're going to be including these programs as part of the core OS package, they need to consider this stuff rather than just plopping down whatever free software they can find.


We're talking about Ubuntu Desktop Edition. The argument that it's a "server OS" does not hold water.

I see, I thought you were talking about Linux in general.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure Ubuntu comes preinstalled with OpenOffice, which is very compatible with MS Office.

I think you may have missed a joke in there.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Ubuntu is not hard to use. I've used it many times in the past.

That isn't really a fair argument. You're smart. You can do a lot of things most people can't with computers. As they say, you are not the user.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

However, as a basic OS, Ubuntu is damn easy to figure out.

Eh, it depends. Out of the box, it can't even connect to the Internet on my MacBook Pro. I finally got the answer after Googling and finding like 12 pages of misleading answers on Ubuntu's own site. This isn't even really a question of "Ubuntu has trouble with the hardware" — support is included, but it's included in a bass-ackwards, unintuitive way.

[shifuimam]

What was the problem? What did you have to do? I mean, we're talking about a machine with Ubuntu preinstalled - the hardware has been selected to have no problems with the OS.

And, yes. I'm a geek. But it's not hard to find apps in Ubuntu, which is what the average user does. Click the icon in the top left corner. Bam - a Start menu type thing with categories. Want to play a game. Click "Games". Want to look at info on your machine? "Utilities". This is what I mean by easy - if you spend 30 seconds reading the text on the screen in front of you, you can generally figure out what it is you want to do.

[Oisín]

I still think you’re overestimating Average Joe’s (or Jane’s) level of daring to explore unknown territory on a computer. I have seen, several times, people who completely froze when they borrowed a Mac of mine, simply because there’s no Start button in the bottom left corner. The fact that there’s a Dock with icons in it did nothing for them. The fact that there’s a Start-like button in the top left corner was utterly meaningless to them. There was no button in the bottom left corner that had the word “Start” on it, hence they had no idea what to do and just sat there.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I still think you’re overestimating Average Joe’s (or Jane’s) level of daring to explore unknown territory on a computer. I have seen, several times, people who completely froze when they borrowed a Mac of mine, simply because there’s no Start button in the bottom left corner. The fact that there’s a Dock with icons in it did nothing for them. The fact that there’s a Start-like button in the top left corner was utterly meaningless to them. There was no button in the bottom left corner that had the word “Start” on it, hence they had no idea what to do and just sat there.

There is definitely a certain class of user that this is applicable to, and this may have been the person in the original story. Whether they have learned OS X, Windows, or Gnome, or even how to fix their car, their method of learning by rote for that particular product is severely flawed, and is going to prevent them from using anything but product version/model x. Discussion pretty much ends there as far as these users are concerned...

However, there is another class of user, and I think shifuimam is thinking of this group: people that may not be experts, but can think rationally and logically enough to establish connections and conceptualize what it is what they want to do. This group of user can figure out how to realign text when an icon is moved in Word, and this group of user can figure out how to start their mail application when it is moved or renamed. It is absolutely possible to be this sort of user and to not be a geek or anything close to a geek. For these users, once you have Ubuntu installed and working with your hardware, everything is fine.

[besson3c]

I'd also add that shifuimam is right: the most horror stories I hear about Ubuntu is in drivers and getting the thing installed and working with your hardware. When you buy a Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed, this is not an issue.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Salty 

I bet she's a lesbian...

mkay...

-t

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by starman 

Do you REALLY want to go there?

Sure. If "I" can figure it out, anyone can. I figured it out the very first time I tried it. I've been using Ubuntu since the first version 4.10. What was it, warty warthog or something? I forget. But **** man, you install it and you use it. All you have to do is look around. Just because something isn't labled "Word" doesn't mean you can't word process on it. It isn't hard to figure out.

And obviously this woman didn't even try. She's smart enough to take online courses but can't figure out a free operating system? My guess is she couldn't find "Word" or "Outlook" and didn't know what to do.

[starman]

I wasn't talking about Ubuntu, I was talking about Linux in general. It's not a very user-friendly OS.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

And obviously this woman didn't even try. She's smart enough to take online courses but can't figure out a free operating system? My guess is she couldn't find "Word" or "Outlook" and didn't know what to do.

How does taking an online course qualify someone as smart?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

How does taking an online course qualify someone as smart?

Of course it does.

I tripled my IQ to 23 after taking the 'NN Lounge class.

-t