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Shaddim · Feb 16, 2009, 07:27 PM

I love Whedon's shows, but this opener didn't grab me. I'll give it a couple more episodes out of loyalty, but it really needs to ramp up quite a bit.

Other thoughts?

Cold Warrior · Feb 16, 2009, 07:31 PM

I read that the first seven or so eps are going to be very stand-alone but after that they'll get into some arcs and beyond personality-of-the-week.

I thought it was ok. The premiere moved along without a lot of self-aggrandizing pomp (read: Heroes since season 2).

hyteckit · Feb 16, 2009, 07:32 PM

Besides Eliza Dushku, nothing about the show grabbed me.

design219 · Feb 16, 2009, 07:42 PM

I agree with all said so far. I'm going to give it a few more, but I hope it pumps up. Seemed just a little too much like a network cop show.

Chuckit · Feb 16, 2009, 07:49 PM

It's not bad, but it doesn't have that Whedon spark. There's not enough substance to it yet, not enough to make me care about the characters and not enough cleverness to the script (the concept could be good but the first episode didn't really bother to explore it). Considering how extensively the series was supposedly reworked, I have to wonder if there was just too much design by committee going on.

Shaddim · Feb 16, 2009, 08:23 PM

I suppose I simply set my expectations too high. In the past, Joss' shows have hooked me with the first episode. I know I shouldn't, but I feel a little disappointed.

Also, I think Dushku seemed a little out of her depth. From what I've seen it's going to be very demanding and she may not have the chops to pull it off.

Cold Warrior · Feb 16, 2009, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

I suppose I simply set my expectations too high. In the past, Joss' shows have hooked me with the first episode.

I've always been the opposite. His shows have never grabbed me at first. I keep up with them for a bit then the stories and characters grow on me. Buffy and Firefly were this way in particular.

Shaddim · Feb 16, 2009, 11:56 PM

Well, if Firefly didn't grow on you immediately, it never did. The execs at FOX should be shot for the stunt they pulled.

Mac User #001 · Feb 17, 2009, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Besides Eliza Dushku, nothing about the show grabbed me.

Eliza Dushku grabbed you!?

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Well, if Firefly didn't grow on you immediately, it never did. The execs at FOX should be shot for the stunt they pulled.

I know...

jokell82 · Feb 17, 2009, 07:49 AM

I liked the show OK, but it didn't feel like Whedon. The dialogue just wasn't there for me...

Wiskedjak · Feb 17, 2009, 08:41 AM

It lacked the dialog that makes Whedon's shows so good. Also, reminded me too much of Dark Angel mixed with a little Quantum Leap (doesn't know who she is from life to life, but her memories start to rebuild with each reboot).

I'll watch a few more eps, but if Whedon doesn't start to inject more of his style into the show, it's just gonna be another TV show for me.

Thorzdad · Feb 17, 2009, 08:52 AM

The whole "implanted personality" thing immediately reminded me of the quickly-canceled Christian Slater show, My Own Worst Enemy. Hopefully Dollhouse improves quickly and avoids MOWE's short, 9-episode lifespan.

I agree that the dialog was really flat. Definitely not Whedon's usual bubbly gab-fest.

Eriamjh · Feb 17, 2009, 04:32 PM

There's got to be more to this show than girls being programmed for a lame and contrived plot. I think that Joss has plans to have one or some of the girls leave the program or have some other problem. From Wikipedia:

...Whedon [has] a 5-year plan for the show and had already planned out the evolution of his characters through that point. Whedon has said repeatedly that he hates "rewind television," episodes where the characters don't learn and don't evolve from show to show. That's why he has already mapped out an evolution for his characters.

This isn't Firefly. It isn't Buffy or Angel. It's in a bad timeslot that is notorious for killing good shows and making it hard for marginal shows to survive. Hopefully, if it isn't very expensive, it will last long enough to grow its own legs.

I thought the first episode was good enough to warrant continued watching. I'm going to need something after BSG finally finishes.

jokell82 · Feb 17, 2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

There's got to be more to this show than girls being programmed for a lame and contrived plot. I think that Joss has plans to have one or some of the girls leave the program or have some other problem. From Wikipedia:

Sounds a lot like Dark Angel to me...

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

This isn't Firefly. It isn't Buffy or Angel. It's in a bad timeslot that is notorious for killing good shows and making it hard for marginal shows to survive. Hopefully, if it isn't very expensive, it will last long enough to grow its own legs.

I thought the first episode was good enough to warrant continued watching. I'm going to need something after BSG finally finishes.

Definitely agree there. Last week was enough for me to DVR it again, but I doubt it will survive unless it gets "kicked up a notch".

reader50 · Feb 19, 2009, 04:32 PM

I thought it was interesting, but it will take time for the storyline to develop. Reason: the temporary personalities are likely to get most of the air time, but persistent story is more likely to develop on the Dollhouse side.

According to Wikipedia, Fox committed to the first 13 episodes. Hope that's enough for the pieces to start fitting together.

andi*pandi · Feb 19, 2009, 05:44 PM

I wasn't falling off my chair, but I'll give it a shot. I also fear design by committee has sucked the life out of this. A lot was clunky. I'd rather get to know echo's backstory gradually. Someone on another forum compared it to La Femme Nikita.

I also was just getting interested in the Christian Slater show. Had potential. And Slater was rocking the multiple personality disorder. Eliza not so much so far.

Thorzdad · Feb 19, 2009, 06:26 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed the MOWE s gone, too. I thought it was really strong from the beginning and, as you said, Slater was tearing it up. Hope he gets something else going.

Wiskedjak · Feb 19, 2009, 08:45 PM

I'm also missing having a weekly dose of Slater.

Mac User #001 · Feb 20, 2009, 10:05 PM

Second episode = much better

Wiskedjak · Feb 21, 2009, 12:52 AM

It was certainly better than last week. But, it's not what I expect from Whedon; I want something unique and Dollhouse isn't unique so far.

jokell82 · Feb 21, 2009, 12:36 PM

There was a definite improvement this week, and the writing was a LOT better. "You're in the middle of 'why-would-anyone-ever-go-there'" - great line.

hyteckit · Feb 21, 2009, 06:00 PM

Dollhouse? Or high-tech Whorehouse?

Pretty ladies offering "full services". Will do or be anything you want for a hefty fee.

hyteckit · Feb 21, 2009, 06:59 PM

Latest episode is about a rich playboy who goes to the dollhouse (escort agency) and pays for the services of a call girl named "ECHO". This rich playboy turns out to be a psycho serial killer who enjoys killing prostitutes after having sex with them.

It also tells the backstory of ECHO and her black pimp who is in charge of protecting her against psycho clients.

brassplayersrock² · Feb 21, 2009, 07:59 PM

wow hyteckit.......

the 2nd episode was much better. The first was kinda bleh for me, but the nudity helped in this episode

that and the better writing.

Chuckit · Feb 22, 2009, 03:47 AM

I finally got to watch this episode. Still not what I was hoping for, but definitely an improvement on the pilot. All the acting was stronger (I was rooting for you, Dushku!), the action was…well, it was actually action, and the story felt more consequential. I didn't realize it at first, but part of the problem with last week's episode is that it felt empty, like, "OK, she did this job. Who cares?" I'd say it's the second most enjoyable thing I've watched this week.

Eriamjh · Feb 22, 2009, 03:42 PM

This weeks episode revealed some interesting plot points:

Alpha was a male doll that apparently "composited" and retained a mental merge of a bunch of imprints. He killed a bunch of dolls, but specifically not Echo. He seemed to be the one who sent the pic to Agent Ballard (seen watching he on a monitor in episode 1) and who arranged the psycho and his protection (local cop) to hook up with Echo.

Echo is clearly remembering between imprints. She appears to be "compositing" a little based on her actions in the woods. The drug she drank in the canteen triggered her self-hallucinations.

This show has me drawn in. I will be recording every episode to watch from now on. I just hope it survives long enough for the payoff (5-year story arc?).

brassplayersrock² · Feb 22, 2009, 05:57 PM

eria, there was also the little movement at the end.....

olePigeon · Feb 23, 2009, 09:36 PM

Firefly is the only show that really grabbed me. Buffy was... meh. I didn't like Angel at all. The concept of Dollhouse doesn't grab me either.

I'd really like them to just bring back Firefly.

Maybe I'll invent a machine that will send me to an alternate universe where Firefly wasn't canceled, then I can bring back seasons 2-15.

hyteckit · Feb 23, 2009, 09:53 PM

Firefly didn't interest me at all when it was on broadcast TV. I didn't start watching the Firefly series until I watched the movie Serenity.

The stories in Firefly are okay, but not great. It's the characters you fall in love with.

Shaddim · Feb 23, 2009, 10:34 PM

Ok, finally got around to watching Ep.2, and it was quite a bit better. If it continues to improve at this rate I'll keep recording it.

My concern is, you'd think a huge company with their resources would realize that their imprint process is seriously flawed. Flawed enough where they'd reconsider offering such a product to the "public". As far as we know, every "doll" develops a degree of compositing. This seems like it can/will change the performance of their actors after a while. In some ways, they're trying to force square pegs into round holes, but for some reason they can't (or won't) stop.

andi*pandi · Feb 24, 2009, 10:32 AM

Agreed second ep was much better. I wonder if fox execs monkeyed with things a la firefly, except for Helo's part, this would have been a much better intro.

The "man hunting man" scenario is ancient (fantasy island, magnum, remington steele, charlie's angels... etc) but still grabbing. What's different is it appears that alpha set it up.

Uncle Skeleton · Feb 24, 2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Flawed enough where they'd reconsider offering such a product to the "public". As far as we know, every "doll" develops a degree of compositing. This seems like it can/will change the performance of their actors after a while

Maybe they consider the dolls to be more disposable and replaceable than it seems at first blush. Maybe they're kind of like use 5-12 times and then kidnap a new one.

reader50 · Feb 24, 2009, 03:15 PM

The dolls sign up for 5 year enlistments - mentioned in the opening scene.

We don't know if all Dolls develop "compositing" - ie, bleedthrough from previous imprints. It may be that Alpha and Echo are the rare exception. She was spared for some reason. Possibly because she showed some bleedthrough, or possibly because Alpha knew her before she enlisted. He may be trying to push her into remembering.

Mac User #001 · Feb 24, 2009, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I'd really like them to just bring back Firefly.

Maybe I'll invent a machine that will send me to an alternate universe where Firefly wasn't canceled, then I can bring back seasons 2-15.

Send me some HandBrake'd files or something then. PLEASE!

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Agreed second ep was much better. I wonder if fox execs monkeyed with things a la firefly, except for Helo's part, this would have been a much better intro.

Speaking of intro's, Dollhouse's pretty much sucks. After two episodes I'm ready to skip it. In Firefly, Angel, and Buffy I've been known to still watch them quite frequently.

Chuckit · Feb 28, 2009, 01:53 AM

Well, the ending to tonight's episode was certainly interesting. Both Echo and Sierra seemed to remember something, and Echo seemed to know to distrust that guy even in her "wiped" state.

I enjoyed this episode overall. It had a pleasantly twisty plot, good performances all around and…er…lots of scantily clad hot chicks. I'm still not as sold as I was with Buffy or Firefly, but it's certainly earned my attention.

Mac User #001 · Feb 28, 2009, 02:50 AM

I had mixed feelings coming in to this episode, but it ended up really showing you where the plot of the series was going. Overall an okay episode, and yes, the scantily clad hot chicks were nice.

Cold Warrior · Feb 28, 2009, 10:52 PM

Good ep.

andi*pandi · Mar 1, 2009, 01:51 PM

much better.

read an interview with eliza that said fox required the first 6 eps to be "stand alone" eps to bring new viewers in and not confuse them, and after 6 it really picks up into more of a Joss ongoing plot.

When will Fox learn to let Joss do his thing. If they were all like ep 1 I would have cancelled my season pass already.

Shaddim · Mar 1, 2009, 10:04 PM

Damn, she's remembering a quite a bit between treatments, it's difficult to tell just how much. Maybe just enough to know something's up, or it could be almost everything. It's very possible that she's able to isolate and objectively view her parameters, or even pick and choose which traits she wants.

Also, don't forget that the Dollhouse people tried to kill an FBI agent. They're getting way off the grid now. Misdirection isn't enough for them anymore.

reader50 · Mar 1, 2009, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Also, don't forget that the Dollhouse people tried to kill an FBI agent.

It wasn't the Dollhouse people that we know of. He was snooping around an organized crime ring, and they set him up for a "lesson".

The Dollhouse security guy suggested doing something last week, and DeWitt shot the idea down.

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2009, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

When will Fox learn to let Joss do his thing. If they were all like ep 1 I would have cancelled my season pass already.

FYI, by all accounts, the original pilot was fantastic. It sounds much more like what I was expecting. Hopefully it makes the DVD release.

Shaddim · Mar 1, 2009, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

It wasn't the Dollhouse people that we know of. He was snooping around an organized crime ring, and they set him up for a "lesson".

The Dollhouse security guy suggested doing something last week, and DeWitt shot the idea down.

Harsh lesson, he would have been killed if he hadn't gotten lucky.

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2009, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

It wasn't the Dollhouse people that we know of. He was snooping around an organized crime ring, and they set him up for a "lesson".

Well, one of the organized crime guys is an active, but we haven't seen any evidence that the guys who tried to kill Ballard were as well.

waxcrash · Mar 2, 2009, 12:43 AM

I decided to check this show out because of all the publicity it is getting. Just downloaded the first two episodes and watched them. The premise is interesting, but falls short. The first episode wasn't good, but I thought I'd give the second episode a chance. Deshku is eye candy, but her acting is not good. Her role is extremely difficult for any actress - playing a new character every episode. You would think after she has been programmed with a new personality that she would have different mannerism, changes in stylized speech, etc. They just put her in some different clothes in a different situation and expect you to believe she is a different person, but she talks and acts the same. And after watching the second episode, the plot wasn't original at all - just a ripoff of Richard Connell's The Most Dangerous Game.

Uncle Skeleton · Mar 2, 2009, 01:31 AM

She tried putting on a new accent for the 3rd ep, but it was intermittent AFAICT

To me it seems like casting was focused primarily on the ability to do the floaty out-of-it walk, like Summer Glau did through most of Firefly

Chuckit · Mar 2, 2009, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by waxcrash

And after watching the second episode, the plot wasn't original at all - just a ripoff of Richard Connell's The Most Dangerous Game.

Um, duh. I don't think anybody here actually thought that was a totally original concept. It's a pretty well-known plot archetype. My brother and I used to try to turn any conversation about hunting into a discussion of "the ultimate prey."

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

She tried putting on a new accent for the 3rd ep, but it was intermittent AFAICT

Did she? All I heard was Dushku's natural Boston accent. What else was she doing?

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

To me it seems like casting was focused primarily on the ability to do the floaty out-of-it walk, like Summer Glau did through most of Firefly

Actually, she was cast primarily based on her relationship with the show's producer. Specifically, she was the producer.

andi*pandi · Mar 2, 2009, 08:48 AM

I couldn't tell a new accent. If anything, she pushed her boston accent up a notch. Maybe it was the girly squeaks in "omigod I got the gig" scene?

Uncle Skeleton · Mar 2, 2009, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Did she? All I heard was Dushku's natural Boston accent. What else was she doing?

I didn't know that was her normal accent, but it was new to this show and this character wasn't it?

- - e r i k - - · Mar 2, 2009, 07:54 PM

Shaddim · Mar 8, 2009, 03:18 AM

So, ummm... ugh. I'm just not "feelin" it. This last episode actually felt like a step backwards.

bored now.