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andi*pandi · Mar 8, 2009, 12:43 PM

was there one last night? tivo has failed me.

Wiskedjak · Mar 8, 2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

That seems to be about the size of it. I'm beginning to think that Buffy and Firefly were just flukes. In terms of style, Buffy and Firefly were almost identical. He might be trying to expand his style in Dollhouse, with the result being that it ends up feeling like any other mediocre show on TV.

Thorzdad · Mar 8, 2009, 01:00 PM

I've come to the conclusion that the pitch Whedon gave to Fox was something along the lines of "She is a different character each week, so one week the show is a crime drama, the next week it's action/adventure, etc. It's like hundreds of different shows for the price of one!"

Unfortunately, it's just not doing it yet. And I don't think Dushku is an actress who can pull it off.

Chuckit · 02:17 PM

BTW, I actually enjoyed the last episode. It's still not up to Whedon's standards, but whatever. It's good by normal-TV standards. I certainly enjoyed it more than, say, Heroes or Galactica. And Dichen Lachman's acting as Taffy was very impressive. After mainly having seen her as Sierra and the geeky Australian fan episode 3, I was kind of surprised by how well she played the same character as Dushku.

BTW, the first few episodes were always destined to be a little bit flat. Joss had a deal with the network that he'd hold back on the "real" ongoing story for that long to try and hook viewers, who the network apparently thinks hate his shows. After episode six is where it should start picking up.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

That seems to be about the size of it. I'm beginning to think that Buffy and Firefly were just flukes. In terms of style, Buffy and Firefly were almost identical.

What? I don't see how that's any more accurate than to say Firefly and Gilmore Girls were almost identical.

Wiskedjak · Mar 8, 2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

What? I don't see how that's any more accurate than to say Firefly and Gilmore Girls were almost identical.

In terms of writing style. I found the style of the dialog and story progression in Firefly and Buffy to be very similar. Certainly the *type* of story was very different, but the *style* of the writing was very similar to me. It was obvious that both were written by Whedon. With Dollhouse, if it weren't for all the hype, I be able to tell that it was written by Whedon.

reader50 · Mar 8, 2009, 03:12 PM

So Alpha was a Doll who managed to keep his imprints for a ton of skills. No wait, he was part of the Dollhouse development, working out how imprints / wipes worked.

While the later Dolls sign up for 5-year enlistments, the dual role of Alpha hints at trouble during the company development. Like maybe he didn't volunteer. However, that doesn't excuse all the enthusiastic knife work.

From the first episode. Is anyone else thinking that couple Alpha murdered were Echo's / Caroline's parents?

Shaddim · Mar 8, 2009, 03:27 PM

Hmmm... maybe Ballard is Alpha's "doll".

Chuckit · Mar 8, 2009, 04:22 PM

Unless it's just going to be that they imprinted Alpha with Topher's knowledge at some point, I'm thinking maybe Alpha did a Jekyll when he was inventing the Dollhouse and tried to use the technology on himself. As amoral as Topher is, I imagine he'd be really uncomfortable there if he knew his predecessor had gotten brainwashed against his will.

jokell82 · Mar 14, 2009, 02:23 PM

Thought last night was pretty good - it looks like the series is just starting to get going.

Chuckit · Mar 14, 2009, 09:58 PM

I didn't really care for last night's. The plot was very straightforward and not very involving IMO. It was basically a bunch of one-dimensional characters led by another one-dimensional character being attacked by another group of one-dimensional characters. The only part that was really entertaining to me was the B-plot about the Dollhouse doctors studying Victor's "man-reaction."

Mac User #001 · Mar 15, 2009, 01:28 AM

I enjoyed Friday's ep quite a bit. So far, I haven't cancelled recording. The man-reaction part was really great though, yeah.

Eriamjh · Mar 15, 2009, 05:54 PM

The show itself is great between the actual episodic plots. Much like BSG, I like what is happening, but I want it to move faster!

reader50 · Mar 17, 2009, 12:54 AM

DeWitt vetoed the kill order on Ballard. But the latest ep suggests Mr Security is going beyond his duties to fix things. Maybe he did try to set up a mob kill after all, when DeWitt only authorized a soft disengagement.

Since the bad guy's hit restored Echo's normal vision connection, I'm thinking the Dollhouse staff didn't remove the optical tap. Why do a risky surgery unless / until it's needed? This will turn up in future episodes.

ps - Ballard's locks really do suck. Even the lady next door can bust them.

nonhuman · Mar 17, 2009, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

ps - Ballard's locks really do suck. Even the lady next door can bust them.

Nah, she probably made a copy of his keys based on a photo she took with a super-powered lens through her peephole so that she could curl up in his bed with his dirty laundry after he leaves for work.

jokell82 · Mar 17, 2009, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Nah, she probably made a copy of his keys based on a photo she took with a super-powered lens through her peephole so that she could curl up in his bed with his dirty laundry after he leaves for work.

That chick is too creepy. And sad.

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2009, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

That chick is too creepy. And sad.

I don't find her that creepy. But I do wonder why she doesn't just join a book club or get a cat or something. It's obvious that's what she really wants.

BTW, is it me or does that chick look like Eliza Dushku + 40lbs?

LegendaryPinkOx · Mar 17, 2009, 11:56 AM

I think she's a doll programmed to be that obsessive; to keep an eye on that Ballard guy.

nonhuman · Mar 17, 2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by LegendaryPinkOx

I think she's a doll programmed to be that obsessive; to keep an eye on that Ballard guy.

I've thought the same thing. Not sure yet though. I think she's definitely got to be connected to the Dollhouse in some way. Maybe related to an active as Chuckit sort of implies.

jokell82 · Mar 17, 2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I don't find her that creepy. But I do wonder why she doesn't just join a book club or get a cat or something. It's obvious that's what she really wants.

BTW, is it me or does that chick look like Eliza Dushku + 40lbs?

I'd be creeped out if someone was waiting at their door watching through the peep hole for me to come home.

LegendaryPinkOx · Mar 20, 2009, 10:12 PM

Not a great episode. At least the chubby girl got lucky.

Chuckit · Mar 21, 2009, 03:12 AM

Weird, I really liked this episode. Best yet by a mile. It went more into the moral and philosophical implications of the show's premise, which is something I've been waiting for, we got some good action (in multiple senses of the word! *rimshot*), and the writing was full of Whedony goodness. Plus the plot is actually starting to move now.

hyteckit · Mar 21, 2009, 03:37 AM

Best episode so far. Finally starts to compare the dollhouse to a whorehouse.

I was about to give up on the show.

Anyway, looks like the next episode is going to be exciting as well.

LegendaryPinkOx · Mar 21, 2009, 11:01 AM

I guess the whole "insider" thing threw me off. I was really tired when I watched it, maybe I'll give it another watch on hulu tonight.

jokell82 · Mar 21, 2009, 03:46 PM

Watched it this afternoon, thought it was definitely the best episode yet. Hopefully this quality continues, although I have doubts about whether the series will be renewed past the 13 episode order.

reader50 · Mar 21, 2009, 07:27 PM

Yes, the best episode yet. With lots of possible avenues into the future.

Kudos to LegendaryPinkOx for flagging Ballard's neighbor as a doll assigned to monitor him. And the obvious reason to keep Ballard alive - he doesn't resolve his cases. Leave him assigned so the case doesn't get farmed out to anyone else.

I guessed the rapist was Sierra's handler before the story got there - because Sierra wouldn't name the perp. Victims refuse to testify when it's someone they irrationally trust. For the dolls, only one person qualifies.

So who is the inside person? We're supposed to suspect Toffer's assistant. But I'd guess someone else, with three suspects.

• Echo herself - she's retaining data across wipes, and is watching events. But if so, she allowed herself into considerable danger in the vault last week, by not stepping forward ... much.

• Toffer - he's in the best position to tweak the program code. He also sent his assistant away on a nonsense errand while finishing up the profile.

• My guess - Ms DeWitt. She likes to keep aces up her sleeves, and she tries to make things come out right. She'd need some hedges against her superiors if the Dollhouse operation is turning into a conspiracy to take over the world (or whatever).

jokell82 · Mar 21, 2009, 07:34 PM

My guess is the doctor.

Mac User #001 · Mar 24, 2009, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

My guess is the doctor.

No way.

And I have to agree with the advertisements of this past episode. It was the best by far.

Eug · Mar 28, 2009, 06:00 PM

March 27th's was a really, really bad episode.

brassplayersrock² · Mar 28, 2009, 08:15 PM

^ not really, nor two really. I enjoyed it. Lots to follow though, so maybe that's why you didn't like it?

jokell82 · Mar 28, 2009, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

^ not really, nor two really. I enjoyed it. Lots to follow though, so maybe that's why you didn't like it?

I thought it was pretty good as well. We're still not up to Whedon's usual quality level, but it's getting there...

Eug · Mar 28, 2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

^ not really, nor two really. I enjoyed it. Lots to follow though, so maybe that's why you didn't like it?

Actually, I thought it was pretty simplistic, and a lame attempt at a humour too. Everything just seemed so forced.

Chuckit · Mar 28, 2009, 11:34 PM

I didn't think this last episode was horrible, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as last week's — or even as good as the Craft and Fain's last episode with the vault robbery. It reminded me of a forgettable Star Trek episode.

Gavin · Mar 29, 2009, 02:01 AM

They should have kept her past more mysterious. Finding out she's a save the animals lab trashing eco terrorist makes me think she's better off without a personality. Now I really don't care if she gets her life back.

Chuckit · Mar 29, 2009, 04:50 AM

I think there must be more to it than just poking around with a video camera. Caroline must have done something really awesome to merit getting turned into a zombie sex slave (and still she strikes fear into DeWitt's black little heart).

Eug · Mar 29, 2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gavin

They should have kept her past more mysterious. Finding out she's a save the animals lab trashing eco terrorist makes me think she's better off without a personality. Now I really don't care if she gets her life back.

Heh. That's exactly what I was thinking, but like Chuckit I also wondered what big chunk of the background is missing.

Gavin · Mar 30, 2009, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think there must be more to it than just poking around with a video camera. Caroline must have done something really awesome to merit getting turned into a zombie sex slave

You mean besides discovering their evil plans and knowing that they killed her boyfriend?

I actually liked the episode - lots of background info, we now know who's running the show, and all hell is about to break loose. So it did crank up the potential percentile.

I'm just finding the central character bland; mob boy, neighbor chick and taffy2 are all more interesting to me, which is funny considering it's a show about people with no personality.

And now the hope that she was someone interesting is gone. They should have just left her as little glimpses - that way the viewer can project on her anyone they want: girl next door, daughter, a girl could see her as possibly like herself. That would fit the show with a little dramatic irony, in real life she is whoever you want her to be.

brassplayersrock² · Mar 30, 2009, 08:17 AM

If it were me writing the show, I'd have whoever programmed Echo to tell the former FBI agent what's going on use the neighbor chick as a way to help the former FBI agent find where the doll house is. Also, I'd write her in as a doll character used at another doll house, that way we can can see different houses working together/the other leaders/"programmers", bringing in each others dolls and what not. (That's where I would send the former neighbor if I were the script writer)

Gavin · Mar 30, 2009, 07:18 PM

That would have been cool. It could have resolved the same way too with the killer getting his ass kicked but the call that triggered it would have come from persons unknown.

Or maybe the different houses have competing agendas - just to crank up the complexity.

andi*pandi · 04:22 PM

I want to go on record as saying that the Caroline with the animal rights activists was already a doll. Did they ever call her by name there? Just because we saw scenes appear chronologically doesn't mean they really go in that order.

That would explain how dull she seemed to be, and give her backstory some mystery again.

Perhaps Adelle/someone underground in the dollhouse sent her to find all that secret research etc.

It was also pointed out on another forum that the name of the building and research firm, Rossum, is from a short story called "Rossum's Universal Robots."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U.R._...versal_Robots)

Chuckit · Apr 4, 2009, 02:02 AM

See? There's definitely more past to Caroline than those flashbacks let on.

revMedia · Apr 4, 2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

I love Whedon's shows, but this opener didn't grab me. I'll give it a couple more episodes out of loyalty, but it really needs to ramp up quite a bit.

Other thoughts?

Def started slow. But I trust Whedon, and this show has really gotten better. I will see it to the end of season 1 at least.

reader50 · Apr 4, 2009, 11:40 PM

I liked it. It kept me guessing until the end. Despite the various clues dropped, I didn't figure out what the Dollhouse staff were doing.

We get official confirmation that the Dolls are handsomely paid after their contracts are up, along with their original personalities restored. And while we get a reason for November's enlistment, Sierra may have been coerced to sign. There's certain to be more to it of course.

Are Dollhouses limited to 26 Dolls? What comes after Zulu? Looking at the background of shots, there never seems to be more visible, so maybe it is 26. This particular Dollhouse would be limited to 25 assuming "Alpha" doesn't get reused. 25 does work out to 5 sleeping chambers.

Echo's accent doesn't change too much with new characters, as others have noticed. I'm loving how Sierra's accent does change.

hyteckit · Apr 5, 2009, 01:21 AM

The actress who plays Sierra is a much better actor than Dushku. She has much better range. She goes from Australian accent to American accent. From a bad ass to a fragile girl. And she does it well.

She has a mix Asian look.

Dushku is pretty, but her acting is a little flat.

Eug · Apr 5, 2009, 01:25 AM

Dushku runs like a wuss.

Gavin · Apr 5, 2009, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

What comes after Zulu?

Boers

Chuckit · Apr 5, 2009, 01:42 AM

I'm guessing Sierra will only ever do the two accents we've heard so far — because those are the only ones Dichen Lachman has in her repertoire. I agree, though, she's a really good actress.

BTW, doesn't Sierra have an American accent in her brainwashed state? I was surprised that the character was actually an Australian.

hyteckit · Apr 5, 2009, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm guessing Sierra will only ever do the two accents we've heard so far — because those are the only ones Dichen Lachman has in her repertoire. I agree, though, she's a really good actress.

BTW, doesn't Sierra have an American accent in her brainwashed state? I was surprised that the character was actually an Australian.

She's born in Tibet and was raise in Australia since the age of 7. Her native accent would be Australian. I think she just move to the US about 2 years ago.

There is an interview on youtube where she says she does an Australian accent, American accent, and possibly a Russian accent.

andi*pandi · Apr 5, 2009, 01:17 PM

russian eh?

Then I want to see the episode where she and victor make big trouble for moose and squirrel.

No, that isn't a euphamism.

reader50 · Apr 11, 2009, 06:50 PM

I'll be the first to call "best episode yet". This one was good, with plenty of surprises, and clues to the future.

New thought, about why Alpha spared Echo during the rampage. Suppose Echo had gotten there first, where she could tap previous skills? ie - Alpha tries to cut up Echo. Echo beats the crap out of Alpha despite all his skills. Alpha limps off, slices up a security type to vent, and vanishes. Echo resumes innocence before the reinforcements find her.

This would explain why Alpha has been setting up unfriendly things for Echo, and dropping clues to Ballard. It also explains why he only takes her on via 3rd parties.

andi*pandi · Apr 13, 2009, 09:46 AM

Alpha may be her boyfriend that didn't die? A brother?

This weeks ep just really upped the ante.