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mattyb · Apr 28, 2009, 02:52 PM

OK, we're not the Mafia, we make a product that costs several millions of euros when a big company buys it. We also do hosting for lots of insurance / medical / health related stuff. And we're dodgy. We cut corners. We don't pay people for what we use. We lie about what we're doing to suppliers / clients / partners.

What I know could sink the company, not just in terms of what we should be paying, but the fact that we know that we should be paying much more and we lie to the suppliers - on purpose. I've got some pretty 'hot' emails that could be used if necessary.

Bearing in mind the present economic climate, what would you do if anything?

SpaceMonkey · Apr 28, 2009, 02:53 PM

Is your company French? Are there French/EU laws that protect whistle-blowers?

design219 · Apr 28, 2009, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Is your company French?

If yes, screw them.

turtle777 · Apr 28, 2009, 03:38 PM

1) Be sure that what you got is really hot. Don't let the disdain and emotions for your company fool you into something that's not as big as you think it is.

2) "We cut corners. We don't pay people for what we use. We lie about what we're doing to suppliers / clients / partners."
This sounds like a grey area, but not really anything that would sink a company.
Have laws been violated (not just unethical behavior) ?
Has been intentional fraud committed ?

3) Find out if there is an anonymous whistle-blower hotline in your company ?
Some companies have a special audit committee that's independent of the top management and reports directly to the board. You could send stuff anonymously to them.

4) Even if there are whistleblower laws and protection, know that whistle-blowers (at least in the US) faced dramatic consequences.

5) Main point: you gotta check how important your conscience and ethics are, compared to the adverse affects that you could face. If you want to go ahead, be prepared for the worst: job loss, public scrutiny, being marked as a traitor etc.

-t

Laminar · Apr 28, 2009, 03:45 PM

From what I understand, even though a whistleblower's job might be protected, it's highly likely you'll run into people that don't want you around. And even if you leave that job, no one wants to hire someone known for squeeling, so you'll have a harder time getting another job.

design219 · 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

so you'll have a harder time getting another job.

Yeah, do what's right for you. Karma is not really a bitch.

Oneota · Apr 28, 2009, 03:51 PM

On the other hand, blackmail is a nice way to make 6 or 7 figures in one day.

mattyb · Apr 28, 2009, 05:26 PM

Is your company French? Are there French/EU laws that protect whistle-blowers?

Grey area in French law. Wouldn't want to be a test case.

it's highly likely you'll run into people that don't want you around. And even if you leave that job, no one wants to hire someone known for squeeling, so you'll have a harder time getting another job

Oh yeah.

1) Be sure that what you got is really hot. Don't let the disdain and emotions for your company fool you into something that's not as big as you think it is.

2) "We cut corners. We don't pay people for what we use. We lie about what we're doing to suppliers / clients / partners."
This sounds like a grey area, but not really anything that would sink a company.
Have laws been violated (not just unethical behavior) ?
Has been intentional fraud committed ?

3) Find out if there is an anonymous whistle-blower hotline in your company ?
Some companies have a special audit committee that's independent of the top management and reports directly to the board. You could send stuff anonymously to them.

4) Even if there are whistleblower laws and protection, know that whistle-blowers (at least in the US) faced dramatic consequences.

5) Main point: you gotta check how important your conscience and ethics are, compared to the adverse affects that you could face. If you want to go ahead, be prepared for the worst: job loss, public scrutiny, being marked as a traitor etc.

1) Its organized fraud, with documentation saying stuff like : do this, don't tell them, then do that to cover our behinds. Oh and repeat in this situation, and this one, and this one. With senior management and Directors saying yeah do it, OK will do, yeah I'm on board type stuff.

2) see 1)

3) Reckon that the Directors mentioned above are on the audit committee as well. I know that one of them is a very major share holder.

4 and 5) I'm not going to take any action. This is the first time I've come across something like this. I've dealt with massaging numbers, changing figures, but this is pretty heavy stuff. This is organized. I've calculated that we're not paying out $6 million that we should be. Is this sort of stuff common? Anybody else come across similar figures? I know that it isn't Enron but still.

I have a feeling that this 'fraud' is what is keeping the company afloat. I'm certainly not going to jeopardize this, especially in the present climate. I'd probably have to leave the country if I wanted to find another job.

turtle777 · Apr 28, 2009, 05:34 PM

I haven't seen anything of this magnitude in the companies I worked for.

However, you might want to consider consulting a lawyer. If you just sit and comply with this fraud, it might get back at you when it blows up. In the cases of Enron and Worldcom, they sent middle management to jail for NOT blowing the whistle, IIRC.

-t

LegendaryPinkOx · Apr 28, 2009, 05:43 PM

If a client orders 500 business cards from us, and would actually count the number of cards in a "box of 500," they would find only 420 cards!

Andy8 · Apr 28, 2009, 06:35 PM

Is it a listed company on any stock exchange?

Railroader · Apr 28, 2009, 08:29 PM

Our organization is 101% on the straight and narrow.

I can't begin to tell you the number of times they have said "Sure it's 100% legal, but is it the right thing to do? No, so we won't do it".

Very impressive.

mattyb · Apr 29, 2009, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

I haven't seen anything of this magnitude in the companies I worked for.

However, you might want to consider consulting a lawyer. If you just sit and comply with this fraud, it might get back at you when it blows up. In the cases of Enron and Worldcom, they sent middle management to jail for NOT blowing the whistle, IIRC.

-t

I'm not sure of the status of whistle blowers in France. IIUC, they aren't protected quite like in the UK or the US for example. Reckon that talking to a lawyer is a good ploy.

The company that I work for is quoted yes. But not on any US exchange, so no need for SOx compliance.

My colleagues (all French) don't seem to be as bothered about this - or at least they aren't as well prepared if the sh1t hits the fan as I am. They seem to think that this is business as usual, hence my asking here for your experiences.