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shifuimam · 01:21 PM

Boyfriend and I took a walk this afternoon, and on the way back to the house, I saw something sticking out of a large trash can, amidst a large number of trashed inkjet printers and CRT monitors. There it was..an early-revision Netpliance I-Opener, in all its 1998 glory.

I found out that a couple businesses used to make kits to easily add a 2.5" IDE drive to these things, so they can be used as actual computers. I also discovered that I might be able to buy a new BIOS chip (wat) to allow use of AMD K6 processors, so I can upgrade it to a blazing 555MHz Pentium-equivalent.

The thing boots up just fine with its stock hardware (32MB PC100 RAM and a 180MHz WinChip CPU, oh my!), and there were even a few sent messages in the mail app.

So, MacNN, what should I do with this glorious piece of retro hardware? I can trash it or attempt to upgrade it a bit and install something on it (probably Windows XP, sorry), along with a USB wireless adapter (who doesn't love butt-slow wifi on USB 1.1?) so I can actually get some use out of it. There are pads on the board to add a second USB port, although I don't know if there's any power running to them. But hell, I figure after my epic iBook project, I can't just ignore this thing and do nothing with it.

Chuckit · May 17, 2009, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I can trash it or attempt to upgrade it a bit and install something on it (probably Windows XP, sorry)

Are you apologizing to Windows?

The Godfather · May 17, 2009, 03:55 AM

Windows 7 is rumored to run as fast as XP. Why not install that?

If not, Ubuntu 9.04 had very important speed gains since last year's release.

Use an Xbox/PS2 wireless adapter so that you use the ethernet port in the iOpener. Using USB wifi will be a double hit because of USB 1.1 speed and the CPU hogging that's common in all USB usage.

Maflynn · May 17, 2009, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Windows 7 is rumored to run as fast as XP. Why not install that?

I tried the beta and I can safely say its not as fast as XP, it is much faster then vista, and it reduced some of the bloat (keyword some) but its still a monster OS

If not, Ubuntu 9.04 had very important speed gains since last year's release.

I'm using this right now and found it to be very impressive. Still a little buggy but all in all a fairly solid and fast OS. I was surprised (after using OSX and windows) how svelte an OS could be. While I have 4 gig of ram, its using hardly any, in fact I've not needed to access the swap partition at all. This is after having open office, terminal, konqueror, and vmserver all running at the same time.

ctt1wbw · May 17, 2009, 06:45 AM

I installed Ubuntu 9.04 via Wubi and it runs great for me. I've used it since 4.10, way back in the day.

I want Windows 7 when it comes out, as well. I hate Vista. It's not a view, that's for sure.

Maflynn · May 17, 2009, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw

I installed Ubuntu 9.04 via Wubi and it runs great for me. I've used it since 4.10, way back in the day.

I'm having some issues with it, nothing major but it my MBP doesn't go into sleep or hibernation. When I updated to KDE 4.2.3, I was getting some xserver windows errors when started dolphin (KDE's file explorer) as root.

Other then some minor issues, I think its a great OS and its basically replaced the need to have a bootcamp windows partition.

shifuimam · May 17, 2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Windows 7 is rumored to run as fast as XP. Why not install that?

If not, Ubuntu 9.04 had very important speed gains since last year's release.

Use an Xbox/PS2 wireless adapter so that you use the ethernet port in the iOpener. Using USB wifi will be a double hit because of USB 1.1 speed and the CPU hogging that's common in all USB usage.

Interesting idea...but the I-Opener doesn't have a NIC. It just a V.90 modem...'cause dialup is SO fast. Bummer...

So far, here's what I'm thinking:

Install a 2.5" IDE HDD internally, as well as possibly an external IDE 5.25" drive (probably a DVD-ROM, since I think I have a few laying around here). The IDE bus should run faster than USB 1.1, and I know that people have made modified IDE cables to add an optical drive to the I-Opener. I'll also add a USB wireless card - if the header on the motherboard for a second USB port is usable, I'll probably install one internally or something. Upgrading the RAM is easy, and I can get a 500MHz AMD K6+ socket 7 CPU on eBay for about $18 shipped (although adding a faster CPU is going to require some other modifications, including moving around some resistors and possibly acquiring a different BIOS chip.

I've run XP Pro on a 336MHz P2 with 192MB RAM before - it wasn't blazing, but it was usable. Windows 98 is crap for USB devices - even using a thumb drive requires additional drivers, so I want to avoid that if possible.

Additional mods could include adding a USB digitizer over the LCD (I can get a 10" one from DealExtreme for $66 shipped) to turn it into a touchscreen PC, although I don't know how well a digitizer like that would work over USB 1.1. There's also an internal 10-pin serial header on the board, although I'm not entirely sure how I would interface with it, nor do I know how fast data transfer would be on it.

I also think I may try adding a secondary power supply so that I can add additional USB ports with a powered hub - plus I doubt that the included PSU can handle an upgraded CPU, additional RAM, internal HDD, AND an optical drive without esploding.

I think it's too awesome to junk, though...it's got the makings of a nice little all-in-one machine, if I can get it upgraded enough to run a decent OS.

I could run Ubuntu...we'll see. I'm pretty impressed with EasyPeasy (the Ubuntu fork for netbooks), and if I can get a digitizer working, it would probably work well as a touch interface.

Laminar · May 17, 2009, 07:43 PM

Hackintosh.

The Godfather · May 17, 2009, 07:46 PM

Not enough CPU to run even Mac OS 7.

shifuimam · May 17, 2009, 07:59 PM

Pretty much.

Plus anything pre-Intel Tiger won't run on a CISC CPU, unless I'm mistaken on that one. I can't do anything until I have an IDE cable for it, though.

The Godfather · May 17, 2009, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Pretty much.

Plus anything pre-Intel Tiger won't run on a CISC CPU, unless I'm mistaken on that one. I can't do anything until I have an IDE cable for it, though.

Well, actually OSX was compiled for x86 since 10.0, but those install disks are in a highly secure bunker in the Apple campus.

Every publicly available pre-Tiger Mac OS requires a PowerPC computer with Apple's blessing.

Did I miss something? What kind of storage does the iOpener have? HDD? Flash? Back in 1998, you were lucky if you had a 16MB flash for your 1.3 MP camera.

Laminar · May 17, 2009, 09:44 PM

shifuimam · May 18, 2009, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Well, actually OSX was compiled for x86 since 10.0, but those install disks are in a highly secure bunker in the Apple campus.

Every publicly available pre-Tiger Mac OS requires a PowerPC computer with Apple's blessing.

Did I miss something? What kind of storage does the iOpener have? HDD? Flash? Back in 1998, you were lucky if you had a 16MB flash for your 1.3 MP camera.

It has 16MB onboard, so there's precious little I can do with it as-is.

It also has an onboard 2.5" IDE header, but the pins were swapped to prevent easy modification of the thing for use as a normal computer. I'll have to custom make an IDE cable for it.

Paco500 · May 18, 2009, 05:43 PM

I bought and hacked an iOpener back before they locked them down. I had some version of Red Hat running on it as I recall. It was a fun project, but at then end of the day, it was slow as all hell and the screen was abysmal. Actually, I could have lived with the speed for email, light browsing, etc, but the screen was just painful to look at. I suppose that's what you got when you paid $99 for a flat panel all-in-one computer in those days.

BTW- adding the HD was no big deal, but if you have one of the later "hack-proof" systems, swapping out the BIOS can get tricky. As I recall, they covered it in some sort of horrendous goop that was almost impossible to remove without destroying the MB.

But- cool find. I finally tossed mine when I moved 3 years ago.

shifuimam · May 19, 2009, 03:43 PM

@Paco500: Luckily, this is an early-rev board. There's no epoxy on the BIOS chip, which would also indicate that it has the earlier-rev BIOS that doesn't completely disable booting off the IDE channel instead of the internal flash storage.

Yay! I'm in luck - one of the two suppliers I contacted still has a limited inventory of the custom PCB that will enable me to pretty painlessly add a 2.5" IDE HDD (and install an OS on it - the board converts the nonstandard 2.5" male IDE connector on the board (the pins are all reversed) to a standard one, along with providing 3.5" IDE and molex connectors so I can easily connect the board to another PC to install an OS on it (the I-Opener is incapable of booting from USB - the BIOS doesn't support it). The board is nearly $50 shipped, but it's better than having to take the time to find and buy the parts and take the time to create a custom IDE cable.

I don't know how well XP will handle being installed on a hard drive from a different computer before being booted in the I-Opener. If all else fails, I can install Ubuntu - I doubt I'll be using this thing for much more than looking up recipes online and whatnot (I plan on using it in the kitchen with a wireless keyboard and mouse). Guess the only way to find out is to try it...

I'm definitely interested to see how a digitizer will perform over USB 1.1. I mean, Wacom was making digitizer tablets before 2.0 was implemented, so it's got to work at least somewhat, right? I'm a little more hesitant to try that - a digitizer is going to run me about $65, so I'll first see how the thing performs with a RAM upgrade and a CPU upgrade (once I get solid data on what's required for a faster CPU - I think I may have to mod the case for an adequate heatsink).

- - e r i k - - · May 19, 2009, 10:34 PM

How has this thread progressed this far without pix?

starman · May 19, 2009, 10:43 PM

There's a point you reach with crap hardware where if there's nothing unique the device has to offer, you have to decide if you're going to get as much out of it as you put into it. Like a Newton. Cool, but WTF can you do with it?

Did some reading on it. Meh.

Check eBay and see if anyone even bothers bidding on those things.

I would say dump it.

EDIT: It's like the SGI O2 I have. At this point, who cares?

lexapro · May 19, 2009, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

How has this thread progressed this far without pix?

residentEvil · May 20, 2009, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by starman

There's a point you reach with crap hardware where if there's nothing unique the device has to offer, you have to decide if you're going to get as much out of it as you put into it. Like a Newton. Cool, but WTF can you do with it?

Did some reading on it. Meh.

Check eBay and see if anyone even bothers bidding on those things.

I would say dump it.

EDIT: It's like the SGI O2 I have. At this point, who cares?

i finally took all my SGI stuff i had to the recycle center; it was the last "unique" stuff i kept after the my last move 5 years ago. all the old apple, atari, commodore, etc stuff didn't make the move previous to the last one

shifuimam · May 20, 2009, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

How has this thread progressed this far without pix?

Pics of what?

Originally Posted by starman

There's a point you reach with crap hardware where if there's nothing unique the device has to offer, you have to decide if you're going to get as much out of it as you put into it. Like a Newton. Cool, but WTF can you do with it?

Did some reading on it. Meh.

Check eBay and see if anyone even bothers bidding on those things.

I would say dump it.

EDIT: It's like the SGI O2 I have. At this point, who cares?

Depends on why you do it. I like to learn about this stuff for the sake of learning.

My clamshell mod project ended up costing me nearly a thousand dollars when all was said and done. If all I wanted was a Mac laptop, it would have been cheaper for me to just buy a refurb MB directly from Apple. That wasn't why I did it. It was more of a "let's see if this LCD upgrade thing is even possible" kind of thing, which mutated into "let's see how far I can take upgrading this thing". I used that iBook regularly up until I got my first netbook - which means I got a good year and half or so of use out of it, and I learned a crapton about laptop hardware in the process.

So what's the point of doing something like this? To see if I can, and to see just how far I can take it. What I'll end up with is a pretty usable, compact, all-in-one machine. Windows XP runs perfectly fine on a Pentium II-class processor. And, unlike the clamshell project, the total cost of this thing is going to stay under $125 unless I decide to add a digitizer to it.

I'd say that at least this kind of project produces a usable result at the end, unlike projects that attempt to install Linux on anything with any sort of processor. You can't do anything with a calculator watch that happens to run a highly modified Linux kernel. This, however, will get some use.

- - e r i k - - · May 20, 2009, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Pics of what?

Your newfound piece of obscure hardware

starman · May 20, 2009, 08:04 AM

The thing about your iBook mod is that it was pretty useful. This thing seems about as useful as WebTV. Believe me, I'm all about toys and things or I wouldn't have an O2 or a PowerMac 7600, but the iOpener? I dunno. Museum piece?

shifuimam · May 20, 2009, 10:38 AM

Well, all-in-one PCs like the eeeTop and the HP TouchSmart are pretty expensive - the eeeTop starts at $500. If I can get something pretty similar for $125, it'll be useful.

Older non-Mac hardware can still be pretty useful. I could install Windows 98 on this very easily (in fact, the stock CPU is "Made for Windows 98" certified) and have something to run old DOS games on (particularly games that are a little too resource-heavy for DOSbox).

Performance-wise, this thing will blow the iBook out of the water. That laptop is really ungodly slow for doing...well, for doing just about anything. Windows XP is surprisingly snappy on Pentium-II class hardware.

CollinG3G4 · May 21, 2009, 02:22 PM

[QUOTE=Netpliance I-Opener, in all its 1998 glory.
I[/QUOTE]

Nothing glorious about it. An aunt of mine used to have on back in the day and it was a total piece of junk. The standard OS was buggy and slow out of the box. I'm pretty sure it used a 56k modem to connect, but maybe later models finally got boradband capabilities.

Anyway, I'd be interested to know if you can get windows up and running. However, remember at the best, you're fixing up something with the computing power of a mid-90s PC.

Koralatov · May 21, 2009, 03:02 PM

You should install Moblin on it.

Also, I twenty-seventh the call for pictures. Sad as it may be, I like looking at pictures of old hardware.

Chongo · May 21, 2009, 03:20 PM

Sell it to John Titor

shifuimam · May 23, 2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Koralatov

You should install Moblin on it.

Also, I twenty-seventh the call for pictures. Sad as it may be, I like looking at pictures of old hardware.

Moblin looks awesome....

Too bad the dipwads at Intel decided to make SSE3 a requirement. It won't even install on my eeePC 701 - I really doubt it'll install on this thing.

I think Windows XP is what I'm going to end up with.

Koralatov · May 26, 2009, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Moblin looks awesome....

Too bad the dipwads at Intel decided to make SSE3 a requirement. It won't even install on my eeePC 701 - I really doubt it'll install on this thing.

I think Windows XP is what I'm going to end up with.

You could always try Sugar (the OLPC Linux distro). I just discovered the LiveCDs and Sugar-on-a-Stick pages today. I imagine it would run okay, since it is designed for a 450MHz x86.

Edit: By okay, I mean slightly less slowly than a more demanding OS.

shifuimam · Jun 17, 2009, 07:17 PM

The HDD all-in-one adapter finally arrived. It took awhile to get things rolling to install an OS, but the easiest route ended up being with the aid of a Dell 600M laptop - just pop in the drive and run the install. I started with Windows 98 just to make sure everything was working - installation took like twelve minutes (maybe 20, but really...it's super fast compared to modern OSes), and it booted up just fine.

And flipped out because it couldn't find drivers for anything. Given that Windows 98 can't even use thumb drives without third-party drivers, I doubt my USB CD-ROM is going to work. Time to try Windows 2000.

Chuckit · Jun 17, 2009, 08:03 PM

No Windows ME?

brassplayersrock² · Jun 18, 2009, 12:09 AM

No Windows 7?

Shaddim · Jun 18, 2009, 12:24 AM

No OS X?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 18, 2009, 12:25 AM

No Windows 3.11 for Workgroups?

shifuimam · Jun 18, 2009, 09:41 AM

Snap - the WinChip CPU won't even boot Windows2000. I got Windows98 fully working last night with audio and video (at a whopping 800x600 resolution). Passive matrix is...wow. Makes me have flashbacks of using my father's work laptop to play this crayon screen saver game he had.

I'm putting a 550MHz AMD K6-2+ CPU in it (which will require case modification to accommodate the heatsink and cooling fan, as well as possibly the addition of a better power supply), so I should be able to run Windows XP or any flavor of Linux that doesn't require SSE2/SSE3 (boo Moblin!) to work. This is going to be a nice little all-in-one kitchen PC when I'm done with it.

shifuimam · Jul 29, 2009, 10:01 AM

Because I know you all care so much...

First off, I fried the IO I found in the dumpster. I managed to short out the power controller IC and, in an attempt to find and repair that short, I blew two capacitors, which in turn sent a voltage spike across the board (I'm assuming) which fried the 512MB laptop DIMM I had installed at the time. Amazingly, it didn't fry the BIOS chip, which I needed for the second IO that I ended up buying on eBay for $30.

My "cheap projects" always end up costing me at least $100 more than expected. I'm awesome like that. Anyhow, the second IO turned out to be several hardware revisions newer than the one I originally found (which was a first-rev model), but it wasn't as crippled as expected (the BIOS chip wasn't covered in epoxy), and I was able to get it up and running fairly painlessly. Now I'm waiting on some DIP switch samples so I can bump up the CPU frequency and clock speeds so that the installed 550MHz K6-II+ isn't running at a measly 200MHz (which XP really, really hates).

That's all, folks.