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Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 08:53 AM

Phelps could scratch World Cup meets in suits row

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. So, now, swimsuit technology has improved and his world record is broken by someone else, and Phelps gets all sulky and wants to sit out some meets over this.

If the guys were smart they'd all just use the all polyurethane Arena X-Glide and compete against each other on equal grounds. Technology improves, get over it.

I suspect the reason Phelps is sulky is he can't use that suit. He's sponsored by Speedo, and Speedo doesn't make that suit. Ironically, Phelps won a whole bunch of his competitions aided by the Speedo LZR Racer, yet few complained about that, even though that suit too is part polyurethane.

There is the argument that the Arena X-Glide potentially makes the suit slightly buoyant. OK, they could ban that, but then they should have banned the Speedo LZR Racer years ago.

wallinbl · Jul 29, 2009, 09:09 AM

Have these guys ever watched golf? Equipment is a big difference in golf, and various manufacturers leapfrog each other all the time. When you sign a sponsorship contract you accept the risk that the company you're signing with might get beaten out by someone else.

If his ego can't handle that, then maybe he should stick to his Subway ads instead.

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 29, 2009, 09:12 AM

Well the Speedo suit isn't buoyant. It glides through water better, but doesn't help the swimmer float.

But, I agree with you. They should limit swimwear to speedos and one-pieces for women, and perhaps even set the fabric at some standard level. At the moment it seems like a technology race more than anything else.

(The guy who beat him has shaved 6 seconds off his 400 time in the last year....6 seconds!)

greg

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Well the Speedo suit isn't buoyant. It glides through water better, but doesn't help the swimmer float.

It's also made partly of polyurethane, which floats. Under the new ban, I think the Speedo would be banned too. However, they didn't ban it when Phelps won all those competitions.

The guy who beat him has shaved 6 seconds off his 400 time in the last year....6 seconds!

Just think what Phelps could do with it... if he wasn't constrained by that contract with Speedo.

ghporter · Jul 29, 2009, 09:44 AM

I think there's quite a bit of "philosophical" controversy within the swimming world about these suits. For so long people got their "edge" by shaving everything they could, claiming to be "slipperier" in the water. Whether it was really effective in a physical sense or not, it seemed to help a lot of swimmers do better. Now we have proof that being slipperier in the water actually does work. But is it fair to everyone for one person in a race to have a technical advantage that doesn't have anything to do with his physical condition, form or personal performance?

ort888 · Jul 29, 2009, 09:53 AM

I wonder how pouty he's going to get when he sees the new bongs that are coming out next year.

The new XR Glide superflow Carb Pulls are going to change everything.

turtle777 · Jul 29, 2009, 10:06 AM

What's next ? Growing scales ?

-t

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

But is it fair to everyone for one person in a race to have a technical advantage that doesn't have anything to do with his physical condition, form or personal performance?

No, but:

A) It's just a swimsuit.
B) Everyone can choose to wear it if they want to.

We're not talking about F1 cars here. These suits are not cheap, but it's cheap enough that even a high school student could buy one with money earned at McDonalds. I think they go for around $500.

Personally I think people like Phelps are sulking just because they're locked into lucrative contracts from companies that don't make this suit.

P.S. Cavic slams Phelps

"This is again FINA's decision and too bad that Speedo has not had the foresight to see this and produce a (fast) suit which would have a Speedo emblem on it."

SpaceMonkey · Jul 29, 2009, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

No, but:

A) It's just a swimsuit.
B) Everyone can choose to wear it if they want to.

We're not talking about F1 cars here. These suits are not cheap, but it's cheap enough that even a high school student could buy one with money earned at McDonalds. I think they go for around $500.

Personally I think people like Phelps are sulking just because they're locked into lucrative contracts from companies that don't make this suit.

I understand your point, but I think these factors also contribute to honest disagreement over the future of the sport. As you said, these suits are not prohibitively expensive. It's not like F1 where a team absolutely, positively needs to have a formal relationship with an automaker just to be able to enter races, and the competition is among the automakers as much as it is the drivers. It's a valid position to take that the sport should be about the swimming and not the technology, and to enforce that there needs to be some standard lower-common-denominator "acceptable" suit.

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 11:17 AM

I propose the lowest common denominator can be a $500 Arena X-Glide suit.

Remember, the real issue here is corporate sponsorship, not suit cost. Hell, equipment for C-level elementary school hockey players cost more than this suit. And I have to say again, when Speedo's LZR Racer was introduced, Phelps was perfectly happy to wear it even though not everyone else did.

SpaceMonkey · Jul 29, 2009, 11:28 AM

Well, to be fair, the LZR Racer was only introduced in early 2008, and it's not like it didn't cause a stir among swimmers and FINA before the X-Glide controversy. I think the American media's deification of Phelps during the Olympics kind of masked that. I'm not supporting Phelps' specific position on this, since I agree it's hypocritical, but I support what FINA is trying to do by banning body-length suits in general. I think it's a perfectly legitimate position to take if you don't want to see people one-upping each other every year just by changing their suit.

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 11:30 AM

Yeah, but that ship has already sailed. The suits were initially considered acceptable, and the records have already been broken.

Like I said before, we'd be viewing this with much less suspicion if FINA banned the Speed LZR Racer last year. That they didn't smacks of hypocrisy.

SpaceMonkey · Jul 29, 2009, 11:40 AM

I'm not sure if it's hypocritical or just the gradual realization of potentially how fast materials technology will improve going forward. I mean, Phelps' dominance at the Olympics was one data point, but then you later had events like the December 2008 European championships where a dozen or so records fell in one competition.

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I'm not sure if it's hypocritical or just the gradual realization of potentially how fast materials technology will improve going forward. I mean, Phelps' dominance at the Olympics was one data point, but then you later had events like the December 2008 European championships where a dozen or so records fell in one competition.

At the Olympics, 23 of the 25 records broken were with the Speedo LZR Racer.

SpaceMonkey · Jul 29, 2009, 11:56 AM

That's true, but we're still talking about a span of only 6 months or so before FINA's Spring 2009 meeting in which the swimming community was evaluating this. This was a debate that predated the X-Glide. Perhaps they could have moved sooner to ban body-length suits, but it's not like the LZR was out there for a couple of years tearing up records and no one did anything.

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 29, 2009, 12:02 PM

This just goes to show what spoiled poor-sport Phelps is.

When MY suit gives ME an advantage over my competitors, it's OK.

When THEIR suit gives THEM an advantage over ME, technology has gone too far and I'm not going to compete with them.

What a hypocrite.

Chuckit · Jul 29, 2009, 12:03 PM

Hey, if Phelps wants to tie himself to Speedo, that's his prerogative. Now he gets to experience the other side of a commitment.

Mrjinglesusa · Jul 29, 2009, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Hey, if Phelps wants to tie himself to Speedo, that's his prerogative. Now he gets to experience the other side of a commitment.

My point exactly. HE had the advantage a year ago and relished every minute of it. Now, his competitors have the advantage over him and he can't stand it. Like I said - he's a hypocritical, whiny, spoiled, poor-sport.

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 01:15 PM

Phelps responds with world record

Michael Phelps bounced back from a stunning loss with something more familiar — another world record Wednesday.

One night after he was soundly beaten by Germany’s Paul Biedermann, Phelps set a world mark in the 200-metre butterfly with a time of one minute 51.51 seconds — more than a half-second ahead of his previous mark, 1:52.03.

It didn’t matter what suit Phelps was wearing in the butterfly. No one was even close.

turtle777 · Jul 29, 2009, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

It didn’t matter what suit Phelps was wearing in the butterfly. No one was even close.

Actually,I read somewhere that he wore regular speedos, which would make the WR is even more impressive.

I can't find the link right now though...

-t

wallinbl · Jul 29, 2009, 02:25 PM

The Greeks had a solution for this.

Eug · Jul 29, 2009, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

The Greeks had a solution for this.

I'd watch more women's swimming with this solution.

I'd probably stop watching men's swimming altogether though.

ghporter · Jul 29, 2009, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

I'd watch more women's swimming with this solution.

I'd probably stop watching men's swimming altogether though.

You're onto something here, but with our group I think the shift would be even enough that it wouldn't change gross viewership. I'd just have to get a DVR I guess...